Good Morning all -

Well, it's back to the tar pits after a few very nice days off.

Thank you all for the very kind birthday wishes. I really, really appreciate it. Mimi..that was a very kind thing to say, #2DIL said something very similar in the card they gave me. I think she remembers that WW, when venting to my parents that day, told my Mom that I should have never been born. That didn't sit too well with my mother, and I think she (Mom) told the kids about that.

On the birthday stuff....we all celebrated at my parents house after church yesterday (Wed was my Dad's b'day). Big lunch, #1S grilled chicken. Jeb was there, too, and it was a nice family afternoon. I must say that I missed not spending my b'day with my W, that was really sad. You really notice it when you're in a house with 4 couples and you're the "loner". But, it was very nice. A gift of clothes from my parents, plants from both of the kids and DIL's, plus a John Piper book (The Prodigal's Sister) from #2S.

Friday at the church was really a lot of fun. It was a very long day (about 14 hours), but well worth it. There were about 50 of us working to get the yard sale ready for Saturday. I understand the sale made over $16,000 - all of which will go to local missions.

Plus...I get some great buys myself Friday night (volunteers got to shop Friday night). A large (room size) Persian (type) rug for $10, a smaller one for $5. An antique chest with a marble top ($55). An iron, ironing board, and hanger for both ($6.50). And...a bunch of little stuff. It was a fun way to stay busy on my birthday and keep my mind off of things.

When I got to work this morning, I had an e-mail from my IL's wishing me a happy birthday and telling me they were mailing me a present. It really made me feel bad, it was from my FIL and the last line was "we wish things could be the way they used to be". They've both been battling health problems and I know this is all so hard on them. #1S thinks WW may move back home with them to help take care of them. If so, they may be the best thing that could happen to her. I have to wonder how her dad would handle her calling OM from his home. I doubt very seriously that he would put up with it.

I've not heard anything from WW and I don't know if the boys have seen her or not. We've not talked about her. I think that today is the day the phone company posts the April statement on their web-site, it'll be interesting to see how much WW has called OM this month.

I've spent some time working on my proposed division of assets, which I discussed with the attorney last when I met with him last week. I'm going to put that in a nice format and send it to WW this week and see if she will respond (I've got a feeling that she's now in the denial phase that if she just doesn't do anything, she can continue life as it is right now).

I'm beginning to take some detours through the side streets in my neighborhood looking at houses. I may get with my realtor later this week and go look at some that I've driven by.

The other thing I'm working on to keep myself occupied is refinishing the big window that I have that I am turning into a mirror. I think I said something about it here before. It's a very big (about 8' tall) window that I bought out of a 1870's house that was being torn down (about 5 years ago). I've taken it all apart and stripped and repainted it (white). I'm putting mirrors into the panes instead of the glass and I'm going to hang it in my LR. I worked on it a lot while I was off last week and I'm about ready to get the mirrors cut and installed.

I missed you all while I was away, but it was nice to get away from work for awhile.

Oh, last thing. Reggie asked me yesterday if I could come over and play catch with him. I told him to make sure it was okay with his mom and I would come over today (Monday) after work if she said it was okay.

Georgia

Hi Georgia:

I see you got:



So what did you get? Eddie Bauer? A colleague of mine wears what I would call a "pink" shirt. He calls it "salmon". He also, BTW, wears Hawaiian shirts..... He's our age! I know he's not you though since we don't live in GA....

Sounds like you are having lots of fun. I'm glad for you, being able to do that, despite your sitch...

Hope you get a chance to play with Reggie...

Hi Mimi...

Nice to hear from you.

Well...the clothes are a yellow pull-over golf type shirt and white shorts (don't say that too loud). I'm going to see if I can sneak them back to the store and trade for something like denim shorts and maybe a different shirt.

And...a long red apron for outdoor grilling. That is cool.

I wasn't going to say anything, but there were LOTS of clothes at the yard sale. I found a nice green Eddie Bauer long sleeve shirt ($0.80). I've really got to work up to that Hawaiian shirt thing.

I guess that at times I'm having fun, at other times I really struggle with the whole thing. I get really lonesome (as you did, too, during your Plan B days, I'm sure). I just have to keep reminding myself of all those nights with WW on the phone with OM, and all that transpired to get me to this point. It's still so easy to remember WW as she once was, not as she is now. That is when I really miss her, when I remember the past.

But...I suppose that is something I can be thankful for, I have had a much better life (and M) than most people will ever dream of, so I just try to be thankful for that.

The houses I'm looking at are affectionally referred to locally as "bungalows", which sounds a lot better than a tiny, 2 or 3 bedroom 1 bath house. (Kinda like a Eurpoean Boutique Hotel - aka rooms so small you can hardly turn around in them).

Georgia

Well, BellSouth posted our statement today. For the past 30 days, she has talked to OM 3,315 minutes. That is a slight increase from last month but down from the month before.

Over the past 5 months (when I gave her the Plan B letter), she has averaged just over 2.5 hours per day on the phone with him.

I had thought she might cancel her (our) home phone. I'm not sure how she plans to pay a phone bill that is 25% of her income.

I've got the e-mail all ready to send to her this afternoon with my proposed settlement and alimony.

I am proposing alimony of $800 a month for 2 years.

Also, I am splitting my 401K and equity in the house 50/50. If she doesn't find this fair, I may seriously consider letting her make her case to a 12 person jury. I would be hard pressed to think 12 normal folks would think she should get over 50% of our assets.

She might balk at the alimony, we'll see.

I think the most likely think to happen is that she will ignore it and and assume I'll continue to "enable" her current situation if she just doesn't do anything.

We'll see how it goes.

Georgia

Hi Georgia,
Happy (belated) birthday. Now you are as old as I am. I hope that doesn't make you feel bad.

I see you had a good time. A good time, but It looks like you still have a ways to go until you get to where you want to be. I think you understand that is normal.

I hope the temporal stuff works out for you. It is a big part of our lives, and difficult to deal with sometimes. I am an optimist for you, I hope I am correct in having that optimism. I don't wish your W ill, but I do wish for to learn from her experiences. I pray that God gives her whatever experiences will help her make proper changes...........If she will.

I would like to comment on this part.


Friday I am taking the day off from work to help with the semi-annual yard sale held at my new church. All money is used for local ministry opportunities. The last yard sale netted over $10K. My former church would consider a church yard sale as near blasphemous. Which church is correct?

My former church would hold absolutely no activities that was not directly "church" related. However, my new church is actively seeking to establish themselves as a "focal point" of a very prosperous and growing community allowing the facilities to be use for civic events and such. Their rationale is that all these are avenues that bring people to the church that might otherwise never come, and there are in fact members who were introduced through these activities. Which church is right?

What is happening will shake up your life in more ways than one. I would guess you will see this weekly. Things that were never a cause for thought will now come to your attention. Though I grieve for your marriage, and especially for your W, it may be that these other things can be turned to your good.

I believe in the power of prayer. I know God is on the other end, and that he answers us, as we do the best we can, and continue to ask in faith.

James 1:5
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.



I know that often we don't get what we ask for without some effort on our part. (See Matt 17: 14-21.)

I am not sure where you are in answering your questions, but I submit that it could be very important for you to do so. I encourage you to find the answers.

It may also help to keep in mind the statements made in Matt chapter 7.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

I commend you for doing the best you know how to do. I think there is a lot to be said for service, and I am glad you helped with the "yard sale." Often is that we find what we are looking for when we give up our personal quest to help others.

I hope you get to play ball with Reggie. Maybe one of these days you can take he and his mom for an airplane ride. I bet he would like that.

SS

Thanks SS -

Interesting that you would use James 1:5, it is one of my favorite verses and I refer to it often in my prayer time. I do believe that verse and what it says, and I pray for wisdom frequently.



This is definitely true, SS. Especially the part about things that I never questioned, I now see normal, logical people with some ideas different than my own. I want to be careful to make sure any changes I make are, in fact, for the better (hence the wisdom part), and not digressing to try to "justify" anything I believe (with strong convictions) to be wrong.

Thanks for your very thought provoking post.

Georgia

Good Morning to all -

I got home yesterday and was met by Reggie as I got out of the car. I told him to give me a few minutes and we'd play ball.

After I walked Jeb, I came back out. His Mom told him he could play catch for 5 minutes. He asked me if we could play in the back yard, so I agreed. He really enjoyed it and he wanted to show me around his yard. What a mess!! There was an old shed (ceiling, no walls) in the back with is old baby toys spread around on the ground. He had an old Fisher Price type basket ball goal (plastic) that he pulled out and we shot hoops with the tennis ball that I brought over. He said he loves basket ball.

I noticed in his back yard there is an old backstop on a pole that seems to be in fairly good condition. No hoop. I'm thinking about asking his Mom if she would mind if I buy him a hoop and a basketball so he could really shoot hoops in his back yard. There would have to be a LOT of clearing out to be able to get to it, but I think Reggie could do that part if he wanted to.

For the first time yesterday he started wanted to "wrestle" with me. He would run and jump on my back. I told him that I don't want to play rough (I KNOW his Mom wouldn't like that). He is such a nice kid, he just needs a little guidance and loving.

Other news....no word at all from WW this morning on the proposal (as I suspected). I think I understand her well enough to know that she will do absolutely NOTHING until forced to do so.

I started reading The Prodigal's Sister last night. It's a poetic hypothetical situation in which the story of the prodigal son includes a sister that convinces their dad to allow her to "rescue" her brother because of her love for him. I must say John Piper has a way with Biblical-based poetry. Very moving.

Jeb and I went for a long walk last night. We walked over to the house that I am going to look at Thursday afternoon. There is a small park across the street (actually, just an open field) that Jeb really enjoyed running around in.

I saw a man and woman arguing outside an apartment. They were screaming at each other, he was calling her a MF'ing crack head. There was a little boy, maybe 6, standing there with them. So sad. Amazing to me how many problems there seem to be in the world, I see a lot of them in this downtown location. Yet...I find that I don't want to "flee" back to the suburbs, but I want to be a part of it. Maybe I've finally gone insane.

Georgia

Georgia:

Funny that you asked about insanity. I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I was thinking that all of this is enough to "drive a person crazy".

Yes, I continue to have my dark days. Yesterday was one. I start to thinking how unbelievable all of this is. I can't believe that my life has come to this. I'm sure you can understand that it doesn't fit with the fairytale image of the way we thought it would be during middle age.

I understand the desire to escape. Do you think that's what your WW was doing? I was thinking how nice it would be to just run away from it all, to a place where I wouldn't have to be a caretaker, and I could just be narcissistic and focus on myself. Sound crazy? Sound like the way a person thinks prior to being vulnerable to an A?

So what's the problem here? I don't know. My H couldn't be sweeter to me. He is attentive, treating me like a goddess. My thing is- being tired of taking care of him and the boys. They seem to be wanting to suck everything out of me. Plus I have a caretaking career.... I know I must have checked out at certain times because of my tendency to get overloaded. I think he is too needy. Steve H. says he is not, says that I don't like taking care of him, that I need to practice this. What is wrong with me? Why is it that I often don't want to be bothered with anybody? I need that desert island.... Sound crazy?

OK. Back to reality after an honest vent. Back to work taking care of others.. I'm so good at it but it wears me down and I begin to feel depleted. Working to find the balance......

BTW, part of the problem is that yesterday was the FOW's birthday. I thought all day about how I wish she didn't exist, I wish she wasn't born. I wanted to tell her that. I thought of all of the birthdays that she had my H with her while I was suffering. I know it's not all about HER. I know she is a NOBODY, NONPERSON. I know he was with me yesterday. However, as I said before, all of this STINKS....

Thanks for being there for me to whine to...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Oh Mimi....

Thank you for trusting me enough to be honest with me. I think we ALL have dark days, I know I have mine. But...I know that there are brighter days too, and I try to do what I can to "steer" my days toward that mindset.

I know you must be so tired. It is taxing to take care of others, and from what you've told me of your work I know that others bring their problems to you as well.

I am fortunate in many ways in that right now I have NO ONE totally depending on me for their care, which is in some ways liberating. However, as you know I have a need to WANT to take care of someone, which causes me grief. I am already thinking about what I can cook the next time I have the family over for Sunday lunch.

However, there will be a time when you will see the rewards of your efforts in your boys and their families as they grow. Also, you may be able to start relaxing a bit and reveling in the care H longs to lavish on you. Let him take you to that island in your mind....learn to unwind and trust his care.

Perhaps there is some good in a little narcissism. I am beginning to get where I can buy myself something and not feel guilty about it. That is something I haven't been able to do...I always wanted to buy stuff for WW and not myself. I bought a CD at Best Buy several weeks ago and I can't remember the last time I went into a store and bought ME a CD. Lots of them for her, though. That is kinda liberating.

Of course, my first real purchase was the DVD / Home Theatre thing. $77. That was such a mountain, to buy myself something.

Mimi...I know it's hard. You've even spent yourself so much helping people here, with me being the chief among them. You promised you would stay with me through this all, and you've done that....I'm about to see the light at the end of the tunnel and you've done more for me than you will ever know. It's not the tunnel I had hoped to go through, but I've done my best and I can go on with my life with some hope in no small part thanks to you.

As you can tell, it hurts me to hear that you are hurting.

BTW ... How will I know you when I get to Heaven? Will you still be wearing pink sunglasses and a toga? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Georgia

FGG, Mimi:

2th your posts are so moving. Mostly just wanted 2 chime in here and say that.

I think that it's na2ral 2 become absorbed, sort of, by the process - the MB plans, observing the effects they have on us and those around us. When it's "over" (whatever that means), for me at least, I think there's a feeling that something is missing, something should be happening or have become 2nd na2re that hasn't.

Of course, I didn't plan B, so for me it's not been clearcut much anywhere along the way just when certain milestones were reached. But the A was probably over sometime around a year and a half ago, and the last "biting argument" was several months ago.

Still, I've been hoping for more obvious signs of progress than I think I've been seeing. And we haven't been intimate in over 3 months now. But I'm doing better at letting go of the expectations - which the hope had morphed in2 again - and some wonderful things have been happenning of late that might not be happening (or might have gone unnoticed) if I was still dwelling on the past like I had been.

I still have my down moments, but they don't hurt as much as they used 2. And my W is having more up moments - a monumental improvement if you knew her for the past 15 years or so.

I really had 2 shift my thinking for this 2 be possible, though.

best,
-ol' 2long

2LONG:

I just want 2 say that I really like you. You seem like a great guy. You liked MEN IN BLACK, one of my favorite movies. I didn't like MIB 2 though! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Continue to HAVE FUN, NO MATTER WHAT!!

Georgia,

Wow! I don't know how the OM keeps it up. I understand that women like to talk at least twice as much as men, but how does OM listen to it so much? That's a complete mystery to me. If he hasn't become very annoyed by now, what's wrong with him? Surely she can't be saying something new every day. I'm sure she's an intelegent woman but by now, she surely has told her life's story a few times over with all the interesting details - and on and on she talks. Or maybe it is he who is doing most of the talking. Do you know which it is?

Now my W likes to talk - and I listen to her quite a lot - so maybe it's not so hard, but your W's level of talking over such a long period of time seems very odd.

I can imagine a few long calls - but every day?! When my w's old roommate calls (who was maid of honor in our wedding), they talk for 2 or 3 hours - but it is only once every couple of weeks - perhaps twice a month - and it is two women. I don't know how a man can have these long phone calls every day.

BTW. Your window project sounds interesting - cool and "arty". You haven't reported lately on the pottery class. Are you still going?

-AD

2Long, (with appologies to FGG for the thread-jack)



I think what is missing in your case (and in mine), is the sense of connection with your wife. You and your wife are still very separate. It's almost as if she grudgingly endures you. She's not "into" you. My W isn't into me either - although there are some moments when she seems to appreciate me. Perhaps we are both too predictable. Recently I was browsing a book from one of those 90's managment gurus called "Jumpstart your Brain". It's mostly about how to stir up creativity in problem-solving. The main point is that we need stimulus to stir up things. It almost doesn't matter what the stimulus is. You can give a group an assignment which requires creativity - one group gets just the assignment. The other group gets also a list of words and phrases randomly extracted from some completely unrelated literature. The group with the random stimuli always performs much better - finds more creative solutions (objectively evaluated by independent experts) than the unstimulated group. In our marriages some of us are working on the treadmill approach - just keep trudging. What we need is some stimuli - even random stimuli - to stir things up. I think that our wives are bored by us. Of course, if all we do is randomly try different things, that's not going to work either. We need a goal - and some stimuli.

Just a thought...

-AD

Hi AD -

Incredibly enough, when I was at home I walked in on WW many times in the middle of the night when she would have her phone head set on and her head laying on her desk. She would be totally silent and I could her OM's voice rattling on like a machine gun. She wouldn't be saying a word, and that could go on for a long, long time. I think he is more the talker. I, too, have to wonder at what ANYONE can talk about for 2 1/2 hours per day for months and months on end.

On the pottery class, yes I am still going and it is wonderful. I think I may have a like-long hobby there. I've really gotten to where I am beginning to get the "feel" of the clay on the wheel and make some pretty reasonable bowls / cups. I find that exceptionally relaxing.

Thanks for stopping by to the thread....

Georgia

The talking nonstop....

It's an EN thing not a GENDER thing.

My FWH wants to talk to me nonstop. Remember?

I'm sure the FOW did a lot of listening.

I'm not a phone person. I'm working on this...

Remember my earlier post today??

THE NEED FOR ATTENTION, AFFIRMATION, AFFECTION?? I'm not sure exactly what it is...

I'm thankful that he's talking to me now BUT alot of time I'm just saying UH,HUH... and he is talking. He checks to make sure I'm listening, too because he stops periodically to ask me a question....

I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and say that, IMO, USUALLY women talk more than men. (I realize that I'm on very dangerous ground, here).

On that earlier post, you asked me about the need to escape and I didn't answer you. In truth, I am consciously trying not to figure out WW anymore, I don't think I can and it just upsets me to think about it.

However, I do think we all need some time to ourselves, alone, to just think and relax. I enjoy that immensely in my new life. Trouble is...I get more of it than I would really like right now. I would think your H would need that sometime too, I'm sure you do.

#1S is trying to think of something nice to get DIL for graduation next month. He wants to get her a framed painting (on canvas, if possible) of Rainbow Row (Charleston). He called a little while ago and asked if I'd like to go to Charleston with him tomorrow. I can't really justify leaving work right now with the hole I'm in, but I'm going anyway. How often do I get a whole day with #1S? That should be great.

Have you a recommendation on a downtown restaurant you like where we could have lunch? I've been to Bubba Gumps several times, I would like to try something new.

Also, have any knowledge of "inexpensive" art galleries?

Georgia

I've never done much thinking about men vs. women and talking. I know that I've never been much of a talker,more a listener. I've always had to fill H in on what he missed at parties, etc. because he was busy talking....

I also don't think my H likes time alone. Really, I don't believe he can tolerate being alone. Even when driving in his car, he calls me and wants my undivided attention if he can get it.

They have really nice prints already framed at a shop near the MARKET! I don't know the name of the shop though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The prints are upstairs. There is an open stairway where one can look down. Sorry, I wish I could tell you because they have great stuff there.

My favorite has to be CALIFORNIA DREAMIN. I haven't found another restaurant that I like better there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We had planned to look around the market. Is this shop you are referring to a shop you enter from the street and it also has an upstairs, or do you go upstairs to get to the shop?

I'll try to find it.

Never been to the California Dreamin' in Charleston. The one in Columbia (SC) is in the old train depot downtown and is fabulous. I love that place. Okay, I'll see if we can eat there tomorrow, Mimi's recommendation.

Thanks for the info. Try to post back any more info on the shop you can think of, I'll check back before we go.

Georgia

FGG,

There is a very well known artist in Charleston, named Jim Booth. I know he has prints of Rainbow Row. He has his own gallery just outside of Charleston on a plantation. I would be surprised if he did NOT have a website. It could probably help you find his place. I will warn you though. Once you see his work, you just may be laying down more bucks than you realize. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But, it depends on your taste in art.

Enjoy,

JL

PS: Just went on Google and searched "Jim Booth, Artist" and found his site. He seems to have many prints of Rainbow Row. Hope this helps.

I like the California Dreamin in Charleston better than the one in Columbia because it sits on the water. Yes I've been there but I'm not from SC! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's a small shop that you enter from the street. It has an upstairs but not a full floor upstairs, more like an upstairs walkway. Seems like they sell inexpensive jewelry in the front. I want to say that it's on the right hand side (as you face the Market) on the street beside the Market. Hope this helps but I really was planning on returning there to purchase some wonderful prints inexpensively. DOMESTIC GODDESS, here.....