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Georgia,
I thihnk you should show the phone bill, and explain your feelings as this progressed, with her spending more and more time on the phone with him to her saying she wished she could have sex with him. I think the truth is the best thing for your son now. AS you end it, you can tell him that he neds to find his own way through this, but you wanted him to understand your choice a little better. I feel that if they don't get the truth from you, they may accept falsehoods from her. The phone bill is neutral as far as politics. It is every thing as far as facts.

Mimi,

I have four sons. The oldest is 27, the youngest is 19. I think most of it is the age. 17, 18, and 19 were bad years for most of mine. All kids have a little different way of doing things. Some are respectful, some are not. All of my four were like your 2nd one. The first three all came out of it at 21- 22 years old. I fully expect the last one to come out of it too. Now, it may be that he won't. I know adults that never learned and now they are in their 40's. However these folks are rare.

I think within a few years your son will change too. It helps to let them feel the consenquences of mistakes they make. Humility does wonders for relationships.

SS

I thought you folks might enjoy this.

#1S and I text message frequently. Here is today's dialogue (over a period of several hours):

#1S: Launch scrubbed due to sensor problems....

Me: Pesky sensors.

Me: Rehnquist hospitalized. No known connection to shuttle sensor problem.

#1S: Rumor is Rove put him in there to change the subject a bit....

Me: Rove have anything to do with London?

etc....

Well, you get the point. We have a grand time just bantering back and forth a bit.

Hi, Georgia.

I don't agree with your sons not knowing what is going on.

First off, your wife is 'poisoning the water' with her side of things whenever she gets the chance, that is obvious with #1 son's actions. Her morals are shot because of the choices she has made. Meanwhile, you are trying to take the high road, possibly to no avail.

When I was young, and my mother was doing the things she did, I routinely had to breakup fights. She would scream for me to protect her from my big bad dad. By the time I was 13, I was bigger, stronger and meaner than my dad. One early morning (about 1am), I was summoned to action via all the yelling and screaming and physical threats. I was about to pummel my father's face in when he said to me "Boy, you have no idea what's really going on here". I had no idea at the time how much I didn't know. To this day, I wish that he would have told me. Hearing only my mother's side of things gave me a picture of the situation that simply didn't exist in reality.

To this day, I wish he had told me what was happening. It was an aunt that finally clued me in to the details of their issues. When I finally learned what was going on, my relationship with both of them changed, and became much more the way it should have been, rather than what it had been. It also helped me start to heal.

Please consider telling your sons the TRUTH, not a poisoned version of what is going on between you. They deserve to know.

God bless,
Gimble

Good Morning all –

Thanks, Gimble, for your thoughts.

A report on dinner last night with #2S/DIL. We met at a Mexican restaurant about 7:45 and after some light conversation, I told them I would like to talk about the e-mail. I asked if there was something they would like to discuss with me. #2S asked if there was anything I would like to discuss with them.

So...I did a brief discussion about the D. I told them about the judge’s words to CASA, and about how there were things I hadn’t told them. I told them that I wanted them to have a good relationship with Mom, and anything I say bad about her becomes a permanent memory for them that makes that more and more difficult. Therefore, knowing what I know, and having experienced what I’ve experienced, it is my decision to divorce her. I told them that I didn’t expect their concurrence as I know they could never fully agree with my actions having not experienced what I have.

DIL told me that their concern is that there is other options. I asked her what those would be. She told me she thought that I should go take every phone and computer out of the house, and take away her cell phone. I told her that if I could go back in time, I would indeed be more aggressive long ago in getting rid of the computer when the thing with #1OM started. I then told them about the time that I unplugged the modem cable from the computer and told her that she would not be contacting OM from our home anymore, and how WW cursed me. I then reminded DIL that WW has phone and computer access at school, and it would be very, very difficult to completely isolate her from all forms of communication. However, I did agree that if I could do it over again, I would be more diligent at trying to get rid of communication tools.

I told her that right now I have no access to the house, and no legal right to be there. They were surprised at this, they didn’t realize that we are, in the very legal sense of the word, “legally separated”. I told them how towards the end of last year I would ask WW to at least take her cell phone and leave the house if she had to talk to OM so I wouldn’t have to watch. How I never had any peace in my own home as before work, after work, and in the middle of the night she was on the phone with OM. I told them that was why I took to hanging out at Waffle House at 3:00 AM, because I was able to find more peace there than at my own home. (BTW – They have great pecan waffles).

#2S told me that he thought that if I had communicated to her my dissatisfaction when #1OM first became a problem that this whole thing might have never gotten this far. So...I told him about the first time that I planned a time, when both S’s were not home, and sat down to a long conversation with Mom about how her R with OM was getting way out of hand, how it needed to end and it was extremely dangerous. I told them how the very first day that I discovered she had set up a password protected e-mail account that I confronted her and talked about how a H & W should never keep secrets from one another. But....all of those conversations with me offering (I think) very clear communication, went absolutely nowhere and fell on deaf (and angry) ears.

And, I related the recent story of the phone bill issue. How when she discovered that I could view her Canadian usage on the BellSouth website, she immediately had the phone put in her name and now has the web-site password protected.

S asked if I would be paying anything after the D, and I told him that I would be paying alimony but I don’t know yet how much. I told them how I had asked her last year if she had considered if OM would care for her the rest of her life the way I had for the past 29 years, and how she had already been considering that.

S told me that the week they stayed with her they noticed that she seemed perfectly normal and content. However, he said if he brought up anything about me, OM, or anything related to the whole situation, it was like it flipped a switch and she turned into “Satan Mom” (his words).

To conclude, I tried to tell them enough details to convince them that I had made a fairly Herculean effort at salvaging my marriage, all to no avail. It seems that they were unsure that I had done all I could. I tried to walk a fine line between telling enough detail without overwhelming them with more than they need to know.

I could tell by the end of the evening their entire demeanor had changed. They truly seemed “relieved” after our conversation, not happy, but maybe convinced that Dad hasn’t lost his mind and decided to ditch Mom. We didn’t leave the restaurant until after 10:00 PM, then we stood in the parking lot talking until 11:30. (I am tired this morning).

All in all, it was a very beneficial evening (well worth the price of a Taco Salad and 2 Combination Dinners).

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....

Georgia

I am glad you had that conversation with them. It sounds like it went well.

OH MY, This was wonderful, Georgia:



I've walked in your son and daughter-in-law's shoes. It's all about where they are in life. They want you to be magical. They want this to have a fairy-tale ending.. The belief is: "Daddy has always been able to fix things.. Why can't he fix this?" I think it's age and stage...bursting their bubble....

YOU DID GREAT... THE BEST YOU COULD HAVE POSSIBLY DONE....I THINK....

Thanks Trix and Mimi...

Yes, I do think that they are having to come to terms with their realization that Dad is a mere mortal, no longer able to jump buildings with a single..well, you get the picture.

I think are right, Mimi, in that this really humanizes me in their eyes. I wish I could have kept Superhero status the rest of my life, but unfortunately reality has to set in.

There is no Santa Claus, and there are things Dad can't do.

Georgia

This sounded like a very fruitful conversation.

It kind of showed the very childlike view of Dad thay have...that you have this great power to get Mom to come around...pulling all communication techniques out of hte house...if it were only that easy.

I'm so glad you were able to share with them the efforts you have made.

Did you invite them to do whatever they think is best? I wonder what their next conversation with Mom will be like...if I were a fly on the wall. I can see them trying to be peacemaker in this situation.

There was a moment when recovery began, I had lost my wedding ring, and it felt tarnished anyway, my FWH had asked to meet me on a street in our little town in front of an Art store for our anniversary. He asked if he should bring the kids, I said, "Sure." I met him and he walked me over to the jewelry store across the street to show me a pair of wedding bands he had picked out and wanted me to pick my size. What a surprise. Afterwards we sat on a park bench where he had brought cheese, wine and fruit and we toasted our NEW M. Our daughter coreographed us hugging and holding hands and saying words to each other.

Your #2 is a good mediator, and although you don't want him to get caught in the middle, he also cannot idly stand by and do nothing. He has to feel like he has tried all he can to prevent a D too. It's a bit like a doctor son being told..."No, don't fix my broken bone, I will mend it myself." Let him do what he feels he needs to do, like Dr. H. said.

Hi SHMI -

That picture of you, H, and your daughter is a beautiful one. Sounds like Norman Rockwell could have painted that one!

Regarding your question to me, I have not given either son any further instruction regarding their Mom. They know very, very well that I am not going to direct them as to what to do or not to do. I don't know what his next communication with his Mom will be.

I will say this. I think that he is taking from this the insidiousness of sinful behavior. He related last night how a small, beautiful appearing sin can blossom in a persons life to where that person is no longer even recognizable as who they once were. I think that is what he sees has happened to his Mom, and it hurts him a lot.
Georgia

Georgia, I think you did great with your DS and DIL!

This part of your post caught my attention:


this sounds like a psychiatric condition called I think paraphrenia, which as far as I can remember a person acts normally until a certain subject or word is mentioned and then they become a different person. You know I have always thought that your WW needed help, but then don't they all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm sorry for what you are going thru. You know I read your post everyday but I don't have any useful advice for you, I'm ust walking with you...

Thanks, cc...

I would like to think that between her B (a licenses, professional counselor) and the IC she is seeing now in town, as well as her ob, SOMEONE with credentials would recognize a diagnoseable (sic?) condition.

Thanks for keeping up. It seems like right now each day gets a little more difficult at Aug 3 draws nearer. I think I may take that whole week off from work, even though work does help me keep my mind off of things.

I may try to get my plans in place for my pond and work on the pond feverishly that week. I've got some ideas that are worthy of HGTV, even though it may not turn out that good.

Georgia

FGG,

If it weren't for work I would never have made it so far without some sort of breakdown!

I find that when I'm busy I might not think of WH, the hurt etc. I also sleep ok and I think that makes a big difference.

On the other hand, it is winter here so going out is not that attractive.

But do whatever you find helps you to feel better. I have found that it is best to be a little selfish for now.

Hi folks....

I've been quite busy. But, I wanted to check in to wish all of my friends a pleasant weekend.

Thank you all for the excellent advice, dialogue, and friendship you've all (or, ya'll) have given me this week.

Georgia

Good Morning to all –

I hope you all had a nice weekend. Saturday I started laying out my plans for the pond(s), deck, pergola, etc. Then I went to the local home & garden stores and started pricing supplies. I’m going to take vacation the week of August 1 – 5, and I plan to get a serious start on this project to help take my mind off of the divorce (scheduled for August 3). BTW – I have my follow up appointment with my attorney this Wednesday at 3:00 PM.

Sunday afternoon we had a CASA luncheon for all CASA volunteers. I met a lot of people who I hadn’t met before, and it was very enjoyable afternoon. We (the new trainees) were told we should be getting calls to set up appointments this week to get our first cases. Also, the CASA director was telling me that she spoke at the Optimist Club this past Thursday night and met my friend Phil, who is president of the optimist club. Small world.

I am planning on going over to see my IL’s the weekend before the divorce is final. I know they are aware that I have filed for a divorce, but I don’t know if they are aware the date has been set. Below is the e-mail correspondence between us this past Friday:



Their response:



This is going to be a very hard trip. I know they are getting old, and they are having health problems. As both of the boys have seen them since I have, I asked their opinion on me visiting them. They both agreed that they would appreciate another visit from me very much. They said MIL said she has not told any of the other family members what is going on because she is so embarrassed at WW actions. I still think they feel a sense of failure. I want to go over and assure them that they are in no way responsible for WW’s actions, and that I hope we can maintain a friendship.

Georgia

Good Afternoon, Georgia:

We might just have to feature you on HGTV...

Keep up the GOOD WORK!!

Oops....GOOD AFTERNOON, MIMI...

Thanks, I get my inspiration from HGTV. It is my favorite channel. I'm anxious to get started on my fish pond.

BTW - #2S called ME Sunday morning (while I was still in bed) and asked if he and DIL could join me for lunch. First time he's called ME, usually I call him.

So, I had both sets for lunch. The deamenor of both he and DIL had changed SIGNIFICANTLY, and I credit much of it to the conversation Wednesday night. They are acting like themselves again.

I credit at least some of that to my willingness to take the advice that I had offered you.

The fam is intact (for the time being, anyway).

Georgia

Great to hear the good news about YOU and YOUR CHILDREN!!!

Still going great here with H and OS. Much work still needed with YS but I think it's coming along...

Glad to hear the family is intact again. There is nothing like talking about things...

Good Morning to all -

Last night I attended a meeting of the homeowners associatino in our neighborhood. It was recently set up to combat things such as drug problems, neglected / abandoned houses, community pride, etc. It was held in a small church nearby and I really enjoyed it. There were about 15 people there, all so very friendly and kind. They all welcomed me like I was a part of the family. Last night was their annual meeting when they elected officers and board members. I am now on the board of directors. Not quite sure what that means. The association is having a community cookout on October 1 in the big park near my house.

And, I had done some web-searches and found the son of the original owner of my house. He had moved to the same town where I went through H.S. I called him and we talked for almost an hour. He was so excited that I called. He is now 69 y.o. and has recently moved to Atlanta. He needs to be near Emory for treatment as he has lymphoma.

He got really excited recounting many of the things about his father, his successes as a SciFi writer and such. He talked about his childhood growing up there and how that back yard was so much fun as a child.

I told him about the leather change purse that I had found in the top of one of the closets with his name on it. He remembered it very well. He said it was a kit that you put together by stitching the leather lace through the leather piece, and then he burned his name into it with a wood burning tool. He said he would sure like to have that back, so I told him I would give it to him.

He said he and his W will be coming here soon, and I've invited them over for dinner. I am so anxious to meet them, I want to hear some of those stories firsthand.

Seems as though he and I share an interest in all things historical. He told me that his mom worked in an attorneys office and she had traced ownership of the land back to a grant from the King.

Nothing new on the family situation today. Except, each day seems to get harder and harder to deal with, and stress just keeps getting tougher.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....

Georgia