Good Morning, folks....

I must say that I feel much better today. I was SO tired last night, I went to bed at around 10:00 which is extremely early for me. It was so nice to get a good night sleep, and I feel so much better this morning.

I DO NOT feel that a meeting with WW right now is conducive to any good outcomes. I know that one of the things that WW is attempting to portray is the "poor me" picture, a middle aged woman whose husband has ran off and left her. And....she doesn't want a divorce but her H is divorcing her.

I'm sorry...but I don't think that putting the whole family in a room with her again, even with a COMPETENT therapist present, is going to offer any closure for the family. I know that #1S talks to her very, very directly and she just continues to spew the same stuff, over and over. And...#2S/DIL recently spent a week with her. To that end, putting everyone in the same room and going over this all again, IMO, would be of no value.

When she was at the house in May she offered to take me to dinner at a restaurant she knows I really like. Her words still echo in my ears ("I would be honored to have you join me for dinner"). I wanted to go so much, to sit down and look at her and just share her life with her. But....I had to tell her "no thanks, not as long as you still have R with OM". That conversation still haunts me.

I hope you all understand. I just can't, at this time, allow her to hit me with that same thing all over again. And....only 5 days ago I know that was still very much her intent from her conversation with #1S.

On more generic stuff:

I talked to Mrs. Reese's daugher last night. She said she expects Mrs. Reese to be in the nursing home for a long time. I will go see her when I can, maybe this coming Sunday afternoon.

I'm planning on making another CASA visit tonight to another family member who has offered to adopt these children. SS - If you are...do you normally make your visits unannounced? Or do you alert the family of your visit?

On other stuff.....I am still trying to get the leak around my waterfall fixed. I had a good laugh last night (which was pleasant). I had pulled the liner up around the waterfall and had it propped in place while some glue was drying. I came out last night and somehow the water had gone over the liner and was draining the entire pond. Water was rushing down my driveway and the man across the street was standing in his yard looking up my driveway trying to figure out where all the water was coming from. I could hear cars as they drove by going through rather deep water.

Anyway, I found it humorous (perhaps I just needed a good laugh).

Okay, work to be done.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....

Georgia

Hey FGG,

I'm so glad you are in these children's lives (CASA) and Mrs. Reese's.

I really played it by ear with visits...I usually called and introduced myself and planned a visit the first time. Spent a good portion of the time explaining who I was. It is easy to be a friend to many of these folks. I tried to be very clear that our conversations and visits would go in my report...usually didn't hinder anything, they were honest. I tried to make at least one surprise visit before my report...usually a stop after work, some new information to pass along (court date or such) just a quick stop by just to see how they REALLY lived, not just when company's coming. And before court I tried to call or check in with all parties...situations can change fast..deaths, D's, moves, etc... Hope your case doesn't have too many twists...

GG,

I think you are right in your decision not to meet with WW for "closure". If this were a novel or a movie, it could be part of the script. But closure in the real world isn't possible at this stage, IMHO.

It would be delusional since what has happened isn't Ok; how could there be closure? I am so sorry. My only thought, and I'm not recommending it, is whether a call to SH is in order to see if there is anything he would recommend at this stage of the game.

I think you're ahead to focus on what you have control over; which is your healing, and your future life; and in that you're doing beautifully.

Edited to add: regarding the competency of your wife's IC or whether or not she's a Christian counselor - she can only base her advice on what you WW has told her. Who knows what your WW has told her?

People lie to their counselors often. In my case FWH and I were in MC while the affair was ongoing. He didn't tell either one of us - so it never got addressed. It was a huge waste of money to be in counseling under those conditions. And the counselor could only work with what he knew.

Hi CSue -

One thing I have considered doing is making an appointment with WW's counselor and going to see her MYSELF, without WW's knowledge. I know she wouldn't discuss WW with me (rightfully so), but I think I could probably tell her a few things that might be up to this point unknown to her. And...under her rules of confidentiality she should keep it a secret that I have been to see her, but she should have new and better info to use when meeting with WW.

I'm not ready to condemn WW's IC just based on what WW says about her. It could be that WW is totally misconstruing what she hears, it could be that WW isn't telling the "whole" truth, or it could be that her IC is indeed a wacko. I haven't enough info to tell at this point.

The only problem is that I don't know the name of the IC.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Georgia

I think meeting with WW is a good idea but only FOR you and your sons and DIL's.

Perhaps after the D it may be appropriate to sit down with everyone and come up with some new rules...how to do holidays, what will happen to the house, how you want WW to contact you.

This meeting should only be done if it will benefit YOU and the family, NOT for reconciliation, and not as an intervention, but more of a boundary meeting, to clear up some questions everyone has, and a time to confront about actions...

Bring the idea up to your DS's if they think it would be helpful (especially #2S). If not, no need to do it.

Reconciliation is NOT in your hands, hasn't been since implementng Plan B, it's up to STBXWW (ugh...)

GG,

Hmmm....that's an interesting idea! I don't see why not. I don't know if it would be an ethics issue or not; sort of a conflict of interest?

How can you find out her name?

Good Morning, Georgia:

What a comical scene that must have been down your driveway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I certainly agree with the need for us to grab on to the opportunity to get a big laugh. Feels so good!!

I want to respond to CSUE'S comment:



I guess it depends on how one defines CLOSURE. I'm referring to CLOSE THE DOOR-NEVER TO OPEN IT AGAIN CLOSURE. I am NOT referring to CLOSURE defined as RESOLUTION.

I guess you may have picked up that professionally I work with folks that are ELDERLY and/or DYING with TERMINAL ILLNESSES... I see CLOSURE occurring hourly and daily in the real world, families coming together that have been estranged from each other for years-sometimes just to say that LAST GOODBYE. You even encouraged me to work on this with my mother.

What I have been encouraging for you and your family is a HEALTHY GOODBYE. It is unfortunate when people leave from the lives of each other without such CLOSURE..

I view a DIVORCE as being like a DEATH, the DEATH of a MARRIAGE. As you well know, it is experienced as such with grieving and sorrow.

So I agree with STILL HERE and WOMAN OF FAITH as I said before. I was seeing the meeting with WW as being not so much an intervention as CLOSURE for YOU, YOUR BOYS AND DILS. I agree with STILL that it is their choice in this. In my view, this would be different from your previous interactions in that there should be a competent therapist there for PROTECTION of all of you, to make sure that BOUNDARIES are not crossed and that all parties are EMOTIONALLY PROTECTED. This would need to be a highly accomplished therapist/counselor who is trained in FAMILY THERAPY/COUNSELING.

I know that this is an ideal scenario. However, I am a BELIEVER in not giving up HOPE. I am a BELIEVER in doing what is RIGHT and what is BEST if at all possible. My viewpoint is a function of me having the opportunity to see miracles every day....

IMHO, Georgia, it is not a good idea, though, to contact WW's therapist. Right away, the therapist will be bound to tell your WW that you have contacted her. This does show an inappropriate degree of care and concern from you at this time..in PLAN B. What does your wanting to do this say, Georgia? To me, it does give a sign of your need for CLOSURE...as I have defined it...

My GOD, this is a 29 year old marriage. She is so much a part of who you are. I just can't see you divorcing without saying GOODBYE to her... That's where I am coming from.. Do this for YOU if YOU need to do this...

Everyone does there GRIEF WORK in their own way, though. How you do this is your choice. However, take good care with it given that you have the opportunity to make a decision about this chapter of your life.... I do believe that WHEN YOU CLOSE ONE DOOR, ANOTHER DOOR WILL SOON OPEN FOR YOU....that is already happening for you....

Thank you, Mimi.

That was a very meaningful post.

I appreciate it.

Georgia

Mimi,

I agree with GG, that your perspective is very valuable especially with your background.

Divorce is death in a sense; but it's worse than death in many ways. At the stage where GG is; it's still too emotionally charged. In death, the person is dead, and it's hard to find new hurts.

With divorce, new hurts at this stage are all too common. And all members of GG's family are vulnerable including WW.

Closure however anyone chooses to define it can come, but from my experience - peaceful closure comes a little further down the road when talking about divorce.

GG, has done a remarkably good job making good decisions for himself as he's progressed on this journey. I have faith in him with the help of his support team that he'll make the right decision in his case.

CSue:

Interesting perspective you have there on when closure occurs in divorce...

I sooo agree with you that Georgia will make the choices that are best from him...

His intuition about all of this is EXCELLENT, I think...

GEORGIA:

However, be prepared for her when and if she shows up at your doorstep.. OK?

Mimi,

I think this will happen too!

"However, be prepared for her when and if she shows up at your doorstep.. OK?"

GG, for what it might be worth to you, I both understand and agree with you.

You and your wife are professing Christians. The Scriptural stance is unambiguous, crystal clear....your wife is to "submit to your leadership as head of the household" in matters spiritual and as you fulfill your role as Christ's "stand-in" in your marriage. She is NOT to put her "wants and desires" ahead of yours if they are in opposition to God's commands. That is GOD's command, not yours. She is in open rebellion against God, and secondarily against you. You are standing for God when you have made it clear to your wife that the OM must GO! She cannot "get right with God" as long as the OM is in the picture and she cannot "get right with you" unless she first submits to God and repents.

"Forsaking ALL others" is a vow and promise that you BOTH make to each other and to God....as in "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." ( Not Allah, not another man, not anyone.) Your marriage is an exclusive covenant between you, your wife, God.

There is NO need for "closure," as in "acceptance, justification, rationalization, etc.". This is NOT a "no fault" divorce that you are headed for. This is clearly an "at fault" divorce where your wife is at fault for adultery with another man. There is NO room for a second "man" in any marriage. There is only room for husband, wife, and God.

The "closure" for you in the death and dissolution of your marriage is that Jesus Christ has granted you the "right" to divorce on the basis of your spouse's infidelity, or "marital unfaithfulness." It is NOT divorce for convenience or out of the "hardness of your heart." It is the breaking of the covenantal promise of exclusiveness by your wife, just as Adam and Eve broke it with God when they allowed (chose) Satan to "be a part of their thinking and their lives.

GG, like Mimi, I have watched the "closure" that comes from death. I have watched a 12 year old boy die in front of me as he bled out from a torn liver. I just met a week and a half ago with a senior citizen suffering from cancer and wrote policies for him and his wife...and he died 4 days later. I will be meeting with his wife next week. I have been involved in working with AIDS patients, and virtually every medical problem that afflicts Americans...and watched as people died from things that "just happened to them" as well as those who died as a result of their "choices" in life.

DEATH is the final closure. It ends our existance and our ability to repent.

Your wife NEEDS the closure of repentance and reconciliation, of "leaving her life of sin" and regaining her status as follower of Christ, not the false "closure" of "I wish we could accept sin and just get along with each other."

As for contacting her IC, not unless the IC is a committed Christian. What good would it do for anyone who is not a believer to say to your wife, "obey God, not your own feelings?"

Continuing to think of you and to pray for your wife's "awakening" to the sin she is committing and for her willingness to submit her life to God in humble repentance.

God bless.

With all due respect, you are giving me way too much credit. What I've done I've done because I know that if I don't, I might lose my own sanity.

There is no fun in this, it is extremely hard. I am scared much of the time when I think of the future, as there is now so much uncertainty whereas there formerly was some expectations of growing old together, grandkids, retirement, etc. All that has changed. Even things that will eventually happen, it will be forever "different" now.

And I still have serious bouts of depression. I think the Lexapro masks a whole lot what I would be feeling otherwise. I can still sit down and cry very easily (and sometimes do), but the emotions aren't nearly as intense and they pass quickly.

So....please don't let me blind you, or anyone else, to the awful truth of this whole thing. It stinks.

But....if God is REALLY still in charge, there is opportunities over the next horizon that I'm not yet privy too.

Georgia

Yes, Georgia, there is a purpose in all of this that we are not able to understand or perceive...

You are listening to the SPIRIT and HE is guiding you....

And...I've not bored you folks with my work issues too much, but I would like to add the following.

My company is going through significant changes and has within the past 6 months gone through major senior management changes. We have multiple facilites across the country that are very similar, and the company overall has 4 people with the same title that I have.

However, my group is the ONLY group of it's type in the company that is meeting it's budget, all the others are losing money BIG TIME. (6 - 7 digits at a whack).

Therefore, I have been tasked with managing the 2 biggest projects I have ever led. I have been told that our performance is being watched to determine if the company wants to be in this business any longer.

So...I must say that on top of all the marital stuff, this has indeed increased my stress level a bit. To help me know that this isn't just a big bluff, we RIF'd 16 of 32 employees in one of the "other" departments at a different part of the country yesterday.

That Wal-Mart greeter job is sounding better and better....

Georgia

Whew GG,

This is an extraordinarily painful time, keep your support people close and take extra care of yourself, I remember this stage well.

GG, what sort of business are you in?

I remember well when my boss committed our company to a project, then told me to find a way to make it work, while one aspect of HIS commitment was costing the company $70,000 in red ink every MONTH! The whole company was a start up and not "ready" to absorb that sort of red ink just to let him drive out some competitors.

But....if God is REALLY still in charge, there is opportunities over the next horizon that I'm not yet privy too.

Rest assured, my friend, HE is still in charge!

At this point, I can tell you with 100% certainty that I know where you are coming from. Rememer - I am D now. I filed. I fought to save my M, like you. I never imagined myself as a divorced woman. Never. But it happened. I reached a point where I just couldn't sit back and allow him to show me such disrespect any longer. I think I have said this before - he was constantly parading that woman around our small town introducing her as his "girlfriend" and telling people we had "broken up" as if our 18 year M, and 2 great boys was nothing more than a high school romance.
I remember reaching a point where I realized that I had grown a lot - but he had not. I had come to recognize my own faults, my own weaknesses, and I was working on them, with the Lords help. But he was not. He was only interested in talking about how the OW was his soul mate. I had reached a point where I could occasionally find peace, alone, by myself. I would occasionally be overcome with those moments that can only be described as "the peace that passes all understanding". He was still trying to tell anyone who would listen that there was nothing wrong with what he was doing, he had simply met his soul mate, and had to follow his heart. Blah blah blah
So I followed through with the D - not becuase I wanted to date, and find a new H. I followed through with it because I needed to extract myself from his lack of respect for me, our kids, and his relationship with God. At that point in my life it didn't even occur to me that I would re-marry, I just knew that I needed to extract myself from his blatant sin.

I have always hesitated to post to you about my D, and my life after the D, because I didn't want to encourage you to follow that path. I only post now becuase I want you to know that I do know where you are coming from.

I will share one more thing with you. I have no regrets about my D at this point. My WxH still refuses to repent, still insits that he did nothing wrong. But now that I have built a great life for myself, and he continues to dig his hole even deeper, I suffer from "survivors guilt". I can not help him - I don't try - and he isn't interested in anyones help. But I have such pity for him. He has no friends. His family is still angry with him. He can no longer attend our old church, a church he attended for 30 plus years. He is living with OW#2. He is broke (a fact that he shares with his sons ALL THE TIME). His life is a mess. And occasioanlly I feel pity for him, and I wonder why I have been able to rebuild my life. Occationally I feel like "Oh no, did I secretly want to get a D so I could have a better life?" I know that is ridiculous, I never wanted a D. I just want to share that with you - and I hope it makes sense. So you can be prepared for it. The day will come when you too will feel "survivors guilt".

I look around me now, and my life is simple, but nice. I am able to appreciate every little thing that comes my way. I appreciate everything more, I love people more deeply. And I ask "Lore, why ahve you blessed me so fully? What have I done to deserve all this? Why am I content, when other people (like you) continue to suffer? I have not done anything to deserve all the blessings that I have. And of course the answer is that none of us deserve the blessings we receive, but Jesus died for us anyway.


Be prepared for her showing up on your porch. I predict it within the next 7 days.

FGG, I hope you have a good assistant and are not averse to delegating.

WOF - I remember you telling me your situation. Sometimes I just want to pinch myself and say "WHAT AM I DOING? I AM DIVORCING MY WIFE!!". But then reality sets in and I start thinking about the options. Life with WW and OM (and maybe even OMW thrown in for good measure). Then, I'm back to saying that this is where I MUST be at this point.

Hardly does your story encourage me to WANT to quickly find the greener pasture, but it does give me hope that at least there is still something grazeable left out there. I am glad for you. I too don't believe that God wishes to punish us eteranlly for events that are basically out of our control. And, much like your XH, my WW is heading for a collision course with tragedy. She has spent a total of approximately 3 years of her life working full time. That is it. Even if I pay her $2K a month in alimony (an unlikely amount, I'm told), that is a long, long way from the life she has been accustomed to.

To work stuff....I don't want to narrow it down to saying any more than "aviation". And, I am the KING of delegating. I do indeed believe that I have been given a "do-able" task, but it is going to be very difficult. I am have having to use employees from 3 of our other sites as the projects are WAY too big for my little team. The majority of those folks are accustomed to failure, so my major task is to convince them WE CAN DO IT!!!

I must say that my cheerleading capabilities right now are a bit limited. But, I've been impressed so far with the way the whole team has melded together. I've had the whole team together for 2 days in TX to kick-off the project, bought everyone lunch 2X, dinner 1X. So far we are on schedule and under budget, but there is a long way to go. I have established 3 "team leaders" who lead each of the discipline teams on the project, and they report to me daily on their team. We have 2X weekly teleconference with the entire team. I update the budget daily and post to the whole team.

Needless to say, I think my future with this company (I've been here 24 years) hinges on the success of these 2 programs.

Georgia