It is so hard to understand how she can rationalize that these relationships are okay. Has she been asked if the shoe were on the other foot how she would feel if you had been having the same sort of relationships and time invested with an other woman or women? What was her response? That she would be okay with that because she 'trusts' you? Even if you were talking on the phone at all hours of the day and NIGHT? It is so beyond belief. I still think she has lost her sanity. Nothing else makes any sense.

I asked her a number of times what she would do if I did the same. She very candidly tells me that she would have left me a long time ago if I had done what she has done.

But...the very next day she will say there is nothing wrong with what she is doing..

But..the next day she might say she knows it is wrong, but she has been so miserable she's going to do it anyway.

If you figure it out, my hat's off to you....

WOF:

Well, seeing as how FGG's and my own sitches are so similar, yet so different at the same time, but that I'm faced with this very same observation, I'll comment.

I feel a sad sense of peace over the news *I* got yes2rday, but the realization that, although my W said last night "Intellec2ally, I know that this is right" (meaning staying in our M and giving up RM), she hasn't so much as offered NC, let alone outlined her plan for recovery... ...I think she just assumes that I'll do what I've always done - get angry, but hang in there nevertheless. ...I don't even think I get angry anymore. This is just 2 pathetic and sad.

I'm having 2 think hard about what I want 2 do if she doesn't offer the things she'll have 2 realize on her own will be necessary for us 2 recover. We've met with a mediator, but we haven't filed for DV. Our 30th anniversary is an "arbitrary" deadline, 2, really.

Not like FGG's. A lot would need 2 happen, as you noted, in a very short time in order for FGG 2 believe it'll take.

-ol' 2long

I am just shaking my head, as I am sure others are as well.

In my sitch, on D day, I was SHOCKED! I never in a million years thought he would do something like that. Now I can look back and see little tiny red flags that should have been a clue. But to see these posts from our dear friends 2Long, and FGG I just don't get it.

Here is another question - I know that in my case my X has always loved Drama. He loved to hear about other peoples drama - I always accused him of being the town gossip. He wanted to hear all the gory details of everyone elses lives. I always thought that he liked to hear about other peoples problems, and meanwhile he appreciated his nice normal life. I thought he was grateful that we did not have a lot of "problems". No big fights, healthy kids, good family support. Our parents have been married 30 plus years, all of our siblings are married with children.

Now, I honestly think he wanted to have a lot of drama in his life. I think he was disappointed in his nice normal life. He has had nothing but drama ever since D day.

FGG and 2Long (if you are lurking here) - do you think this may be true of your WW's as well? Are they looking for drama - even if it is negative drama?

GG, I'm just peeking in to try and catch up on things.

I just wanted to tell you that I recently found out that Dawn dishwashing liquid will kill fleas on pets. Just use that instead of shampoo.

I tried it last weekend on my lil' Cocker, and it worked! After she dried off, I brushed dead fleas out of her hair...only found one that was alive.

Sadly, though, she escaped from the deck and was killed by a car on Sunday afternoon while I was napping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> Apparently, she pushed and prodded the temporary gate until it gave way enough for her to clamber out. I'm devastated. I was prepared to come home and find her dead of old age (she was 15), but not prepared for this. She was blind and nearly totally deaf, but she was a lot of company. I miss her lying on my feet while I'm at the computer and following me around the house.

As for your wife, she's still trying to get what she wants without giving anything in return. If your MiL was shouting at her about the OM, then your wife was probably defending her "relationship" with him, which means that it's still going on. I wonder if the offer to "settle" before court means that she wants to somehow negotiate calling off the divorce? I'm sorry that your wife seems to be such a hard-headed woman...she'd be a good match for my H! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, it's a DJ, I know...but my H absolutely insists on having everything the way he wants it (including our marriage)...which is why I just about have one foot out the door. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Diatomaceous Earth is supposed to control fleas in the yard.
Also, borax works on carpet..you can search out the instructions for both on the internet. I've been using Advantage on my pets too.

Good Morning to all –

So much to catch up on this morning.

2Long – I do continue to think our WW’s are very similar in many ways. And…if I may say so..I think the fact that you and I both put up with so much for so long (much 2Long!) does not bode well for our WW’s to realize that a fence isn’t made for sitting. Believe me, friend, I don’t often say this as we normally can’t “feel” what others are feeling, but I will go out on a limb and say “I know how you feel”. To leave or not to leave? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It’s not an easy decision.

WOF – As for the drama question. I absolutely believe, and have for quite some time, that WW seemed to crave drama. It was like she wanted to live in a soap opera. I tried to always keep some “adventurous” things going on in our relationship, such as mystery dates, surprise weekend trips, etc. But…it was like she almost WANTED to live in some kind of turmoil. My mom made the observation (tongue in cheek) that maybe she would have been happier if I had slapped her around a bit. And….I have to notice that both OM#1 and OM#2 treat their W’s like dirt.

WOF, the description of your “normal” life fits us well. We really NEVER had any big fights until her involvement with #1OM. Lots of people have told us they envy the kids we have, both of our parents have been married over 50 years….etc. And, we have lived very comfortably with her not even having to work unless she wanted to. But…there seemed to be a lack of DRAMA.

LADY CLUELESS – I am so sorry to hear about your Cocker! I know you must be devastated. As I’m sure you know by now, I am one who gets emotionally attached to his pets. Even though Jeb is a wonderful companion, I still miss my Toy Poodle and Mini Schnauzer that are with WW. Was the Cocker your only dog? And….my heart goes out to you for your problems with WH, too. From your sig line, it does appear that he may be “Lord Clueless” (wants me to forget everything?).

And, LC and Trix, thanks for the tips on flea control. I treated the yard again last night. It seems as though a severe problem has now been controlled to only a “pesky” problem.

I worked on my pergola and deck last night until dark. The weather here is so wonderful right now! I may try to take picture of what I have up so far and post it here after lunch. I should be able to finish the whole thing next week as I’m off all week.

WE MISS YOU MIMI!!!!

(Psst: I’m afraid the Goddess will get all defensive if we leave her).

Georgia

EXACTLY! Perfect description of my WxH as well. It was something I did see while we were married, he was always trying to dig into other peoples problems, and when he would relay his gossip to me I always got the impression that he wished he had his own story to tell. Like he always heard other peoples horror stories and wanted his own.

Of course, I still don't have any great solutions - I don't know how I could have done anything different, short of creating a huge controversy so that he would have a story to tell (a ridiculous idea).

It is all very interesting. People fascinate me.

I am still not sure what to make of your WW. I am sure that the desire for Drama explains part of your sitch, but still - for her to change so much, and to even try to argue her point with her own children.

Hang in there friend

Yep, WOF, I know what you mean. However, I think in my WW's case, she wanted the DRAMA with a safety net. Kinda like feeding the sharks from inside a cage. It's exciting, but you wouldn't want to do it without the cage. However, now that she gets the drama without the safety net, I think she's finding that shark's bite, and it's not just exciting, it's down right scarey.

Well, I will be leaving in a couple of hours and will be out all next week.

I will stop by and post periodically.

I expect next week to be an emotional rollercoaster. Wednesday afternoon at 4:00 is when we all meet to hammar ou details of the divorce. Not something I'm looking forward to.

BTW - #1S/DIL are closing on their house this afternoon and moving in tomorrow!! They're excited, their very first home!!

Thank you all, again, for your support and encouragement. Continue to pray for me.

Georgia

Hello all -

I'm at the library and I wanted to give a quick update.

Monday night about 9:00 WW came to the house. She brought our Toy Poodle and 3 roses from our rose garden. She said she wanted to talk.

We sat on the front porch swing and I let her talk all she wanted. She wanted to tell me all about stuff at school, her health issues, etc. I just listed.

She asked me about stuff in my life. I told her all about the house, Mrs. Reese, stuff at church, etc.

We finally got down to business about 1:00 AM.

She was probably the most 'sane' that I've seen her in a long time. She told me that she now realizes how badly she hurt me, and said I hadn't clearly communicated before that I was hurting ?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She knows that her R with OM#2 is wrong. He is still (or back) in Vancover and has a job now. He's still with his wife and she says he is happy.

However, among many other things she told me that I have never understood her and that this is what drove her to seek a R with another man. She says I don't know how to "open up" and communicate with her.

She says she wants to work on the marriage. I asked her how I could be assured that her R with OM, or with some other OM, wouldn't happen. She told me that if I didnt' learn to meet her needs, that she probably would have OM#3 someday.

I didn't argue with her, and I didn't tell her what I would / would not do. She was talking like all was to be "normal". Things like she's discovered a new place for dessers she's got to take me, etc.

She left at 3:00 AM. We hugged in the front yard and she kissed me on the cheek. She told me she loves me.

I went in and thought about this a long time before going to bed. And I've thought about it today.

I have decided that I am continuing with the divorce. It is clear to me that she feels justified in her actions with OM#1, OM#2, and someday OM#3 if I can't be a "better husband". I just don't think that is what a marriage is all about, and I'm being asked to continue knowing what I'm (likely) in store for.

I am going to call her back tonight and tell her that I have decided to proceed. I will assure her that I will be fair, and I'll not seek "revenge" or try to hurt her. But...I can't continue to live where I'm on trial on the time, and if I don't quit pass the test than I'm replaced with another man.

Thank you all for your prayers and concerns.

Georgia

How Sad for Her!

She lost you...

I'm not sure I understand your response to this, Georgia...especially from a religious point of view..

Are you leaving something out that you have not shared with us?

Very wise decision. Sheesh, I cannot believe she said those things to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Ah, FGG:

I know exactly what you're talking about, because I heard almost exactly the same words from my W just last week, about RM getting engaged.

My W still blames me, in part, for her A (I'll take 0% responsibility for it).

She said she's worried that if I can't meet her needs, she might have another one at some point (I won't be around at that point, leaving at the first signs, I can assure you!).

Last time she reflected on her past with RM was about 2 months ago, when she told me she doesn't regret the A, just the hurt it's caused me.


In my case, and maybe in yours as well, there may still be epiphanies 2 come that can save this. Not before the DV for you, certainly, but maybe at some point downrange from now. Possibly before I choose 2 file, my W will come out of her fog completely. She's been making steps forward that have slightly outnumbered the steps backward. I'll be watching.

Your mileage may vary, but I bet you'll not be completely closed off 2 her even after the DV.

You're a good man, FGG. My thoughts will be with you 2morrow.

-ol' 2long

Help me out here, Guys.. I'm missing something...

Georgia's WW doesn't sound any different to me than my FWH did when he FIRST tried to convince me to reconcile with him.

I continued having conversations with him until he convinced me of his sincerity....

The rest is history....

Georgia can speak for himself. However, IMHO, it's not what she said or didn't say. I think Georgia is FINISHED and READY TO MOVE ON...

I could be wrong but it sounds like she is full of entitlement not remorse. Of course my view could be skewed from my own sit.

Mimi:

Well, I shouldn't speak for FGG, but the only difference I see here is in the timing.

I believe that Mrs FGG loves FGG. Hopefully, that love will help her out of the fog sooner than later.

But I think it's quite possible for people 2 spend their whole lives in the fog.

Those people are very sad cases.

-ol' 2long

Dear Georgia,
I don't blame you. I agree with you, it sounds like she is justifying her affairs, and to be quite frank with you, I would be worrying about her bringing home some STD. I am so sorry for your circumstances. The wandering spouses' have no idea how much their betrayals change the way we, the bs think, feel, and act.
I hope you find peace and happiness in your new life. I am sure after all that is said and done, you will make someone a wonderful husband someday.

Here is my 2 cents worth.
It sounds to me like Mrs GG is saying something like "If you figure out what all of my needs are, on your own, and then meet them, all the time, then I will be faithful. If you do not meet them all the time, then I will find OM#3 and it will be your fault"

In his post above she actaully says that he did not figure out what her needs were all those years and that justified her A. - not once, but twice. And she is all ready admitting a possible #3 in the future.

I can see where GG is coming from here, and I think he is wise. It would be easy to say "Ok, honey, come back and I will be the perfect H" But that is not reality!! None of us can meet someone elses needs all the time. What if he ends up sick for 6 months, and can not possibly meet her needs? Does that give her the ok to get back online and find #3? What if he loses a family memeber, and grieves for a month? Does he have to put aside his own feelings in order to keep her faithful?

I do agree with Mimi that this is likely the beginning of many conversations. His WW is starting to reach out. She admits that she has caused a lot of pain, that is a step. But she needs to get off this entitlement throne that says that if she is not happy 24/7 then it is his fault and he needs to figure out why and do something about it! (sorry - I have issues with this)

If she has needs that he doesn't know about, and he isn't meeting them, why can't she come to him and say so.

I would think that GG would have felt better if she had said "I can see where I had some needs that weren't being met, and I looked elsewhere to meet those. For that I am truly sorry. In the future, I will not look elsewhere, but instead I will come to you."

It just seems like she isn't quite there yet.

It is also likely that GG is just fed up - and that is ok too.
But, GG, keep one thing in mind here. You have every right to express your own wants/desires/emotional needs. Your desire is for a better R. That doesn't mean you have to "roll over and take it". If these discussions progress - and I think they may - you could say something like "I have discovered that I truly enjoy entertaining at my home, and I would like to continue to do so. We would need to come up a with mutually agreeable solution to that issue."

The fact is that recovery is very difficult. Mrs GG needs to show that she is ready to pull up her sleeves and work it out - instead of saying that she wants to try as long as he can meet all her needs all the time. For crying out loud she has openly admitted that if he screws up there will be OM#3. that is ridiculous.

Hi, Georgia.

partial quote:
==========================================
However, among many other things she told me that I have never understood her and that this is what drove her to seek a R with another man. She says I don't know how to "open up" and communicate with her.
==========================================

Well, let me weigh in with a quick (very) interpretation.

"Hubby, I love you but the affairs I had where all your fault, both of them, because you didn't meet my needs. My next affair will be your fault too, because you will fail to meet my needs at some point in time. I expect sooner rather than later".

In my opinion, she simply warned you that she will do it again, and hoped that you would think she was worth having back enough to tolerate her behavior. I think she has likely already targeted other man number 3.

I wouldn't want to be in your shoes Georgia, not for a minute.

I think you made the right decision.

God bless,
Gimble

BUT..

She did say that she was WRONG...

I think there will be more conversations tomorrow and tonignt.

I'm praying for God's will to be done and for Satan not to prevail....

I'm sad for Georgia and his sons and his WW.....