What is running through my mind now is the period of time when my FWH was trying to get me to consider reconciliation...

I am recalling my sessions with Steve H during that time.. Steve told me that my H was still foggy so he said KEEP IT SIMPLE..HAVE BRIEF CONVERSATIONS...SAY GET RID OF THE OW..PERIOD..then end the conversation...

I also complained to Steve about my H's NEEDINESS.. I was fearful of being unable to maintain his supply. This is another way Mrs. Georgia is a lot like my H. I was looking at the list of ENs and my H seems high on all of them... Steve told me that I needed to PRACTICE meeting his needs...he used the analogy of building up my workup routine. I assumed that my H's neediness is a sign of pathology. Steve did not look at this way. He said that I signed on with my H as a NEEDY person and I should keep my commitment. My ceasing to meet those needs as initially agreed upon in our R, contributed to the environment for the A to begin.. So now, I listen and listen to a lot of conversation...Sit with my H so he can stroke me while he watches TV because he HATES being alone and on and on....

The thing is, my H lovingly and willingly also meets my EMOTIONAL NEEDS... He treats me just like a QUEEN..the GODDESS that I am... Do you see the how the similarities here?

Georgia, how good was your wife in meeting your ENS....

You seem to want her to be a different person than who she is. She is needy. She desires a lot of attention. Is she any different than she was at the beginning? Are you expecting her to be different..a woman who has women friends..That's not who she is....Is it OK for you to expect her to be different..the person that YOU WANT HER TO BE.....

How self-righteous...I wanted my H to be different and he picked up on that and found the OW who accepted him and didn't try to change him...

Maybe Georgia's wife is psychologically unhealthy-maybe my H is. But what I am saying is IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH..just as if she had cancer...

It is Georgia's choice about his life. I chose to give my H a chance. I chose to accept him as he is. He has appreciated that and the rest is history.

The thing is my H has stuck by his commitment to me..to make me his only woman..to give up the OW FOR LIFE..Other women for life...

I would like to ask Georgia's wife why she can't make that commitment. I would expect her to do that in order for Georgia to even consider R. I agree with everyone about that...

Do you see where I am coming from on this?

Unlike Georgia, I was not able to make a new life for myself. I think that is one of the dangers of PLAN B. Even if the WS wants to recover, it may be too late....

I think I will go stick my head in the sand.

WW just sent me an e-mail reminding me of the fun we had at the rodeo last year, the trip to Seattle (en route to Vancouver), and the trip to Palm Beach for our 25th anniversary.

Here are her words:

"...and contrary to what I think you think, I also enjoyed our time in Palm Beach. That was very special to me. What I apparently didn't communicate well was that I thought it had been more special to you, AND the reason for that was because you had put so much time and effort into planning it."

Okay, this is what she says now. However, just before I left home she told me the trip to P.B. meant nothing to her becasue she was in love with OM#1 at the time, not me.

Does this sound like a plausible explanation for her comments?

It's always a case of I just didn't understand what she meant, or I misconstrued her words, or I just don't listen.....

ARGH........

I'm going to go drown myself in my pond, or go make some pottery - one or the other.

Georgia

Mimi,

I don't quite understand what you are saying.


so how long do you think FGG should wait when his W won't make this commitment? Years?

How long? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't think that Georgia has been separated a year... However, I wasn't talking about time frames...

For curiosity's sake for me and for clarity, I simply yet specifically would like to ask her that question. I wonder how she explains TODAY feeling justified being in a close relationship with more than one man, one of those men NOT being your H.

As I write this, I suspect she would answer that these OM were "just friends""....

I think she's trying now..

She's far from where she needs to be....

I think from now to OCTOBER 7 is a LONG TIME....

IMHO, it is important for Georgia to not run away from this but to face into it and to dig in and get dirty...

To throw this out there....

What do you do about the CONSTANT re-write of history???

Re-written to suit the current mood?

Wonder what SH would say about that?

CSUE:

The rewrite is STANDARD WS behavior...

My H is still getting his stories straight.

He even started to believe his rewrite was TRUE...

He laughs at himself now and says "I can't believe I said that or thought that"...

Now, that's STANDARD FOG!!

I don't know why I'm having a hard time seeing her as all that BAD or all that DIFFERENT than other WSes

It's AWFUL that she's had more than one OM... But, OTHERWISE?

I think it's because Georgia is SOOO GREAT...

However, she likely perceives him differently than we do..he shares himself to us through his own eyes....

Mimi:

I've been reading and listening. Interesting stuff. I have 2 admit that part of me has agreed with some of what you and FH have been saying, and I'm not religious (and FH and I have butted heads many times in the past). Without using the "jargon", my "beliefs" about marriage are very much the same.

I've been feeling really funny lately because my W is clearly coming out of her 15-year fog. More like 20 years, by her own admission the other day, because she had an EA with another OM back then, only neither one of us knew that's what it was. And so we both have lately agreed that neither one of us knew what 2 do about that A then, so we didn't learn the lessons we needed 2 learn as a couple 2 prevent the 2nd A.

And I can see how FGG is so frustrated with this half-fast attempt on her part at reconciliation. I have a lot of significant things I've got 2 get past myself in order 2 be ready 2 move forward as a M couple (like rebuilding trust, after 15 years of lies - how will she earn it back now? How will I know she's trustworthy?), and my W never spent more than 20 minutes on the phone with RM while I was around, and she never left, and I never did plan B... ...such that in the end I can only imagine how hard this is for him now.

But he does have time until the 7th, and though it will be difficult for him, I think he should take advantage of the time and communicate with his W.

And don't expect, just hope.

Offer the MC with SH (individually, first)... ...she just might accept that now.

The revisionist his2ry stuff comes, like you said, with the territory. She WON'T believe she said the things she's said a year from now. My W still says things, and clearly did things, that I know are WAY out of character for her integrity-wise. They were the alien, not her. The alien is giving way, finally, 2 the real Mrs. 2long now. Slowly, because it 2k her a long time 2 become "possessed", but surely.

I still believe there's hope for great things out of Mrs FGG. But not before more pain - possibly a lot more.

Asbestos suits on ebay?

-ol' 2long

Mimi,

I think I see her as bad because she has done this twice AND she did it right in her H's face twice for a totall of 5 YEARS. This was not a brief affair, and neither was the other and they were both in his face. In fact as he reiterated her comments about Palm Beach, she rubbed his face in OM#1 again.

I think getting your face rubbed in #1 is bad enough, but to then have it rubbed in #2 for years is beyond the pale.

You may be right she MIGHT come around but she has done NOTHING to address her issues and they include many many problems. You may be right she will come around, see things clearly, etc. But I am betting not before 7 Oct. In fact, I doubt she will then. She is NOT a person that has ever been accountable for her choices.

It is not a matter of FGG being so great. It is more of the 5 years of in your face with 2 other men, and the promise of a 3rd if he does not toe the line.

I am sorry, I tend to believe what people say especially when they back it up with actions and ALL of her actions have indicated that she cares only for herself. Heck, she does not even recognize what she has done to her son's, she just blames FGG.

I am sure God sees redeeming values in this woman, but this 5 year stint of affairs shows very few of them to me. You can feel sorry for her all you want, but until she takes actions that are supportive of her marriage and her H, rather than just herself...sorry the woman is not worth considering as a W.

Those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

JL:

Here's something for us all 2 think about: If Mrs FGG was flaunting her EA with OM one and 2 for 5 years, why didn't FGG do something long before this? And before I get crucified for asking that, please note that I've been asking myself that very question for months now, only it's been 15 years! Why didn't I take action 15 years ago? 1 year ago?

CA. Fear.

There are other terms, but those 2 are the most important in my mind right now.

And I wasn't ready 2 jettison those and make communication breakthroughs - the breakthroughs that will save our M if anything can - until very recently, as you all know. And my W only was able 2 do the same last week.

But maybe I should have just had her shot 15 years ago? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Sorry for the dark humor, but there have been times when I've thought that might be a viable solution 2 my perception of our problems. But not 'nemore. My W is a wonderful person in so many ways. I think I'll try 2 draw that person out, if I can.

FGG's W might be harder 2 reach, but impossible?? I don't know.

I don't think she's "bad" by any means. Just a WS mess, is all.

-ol' 2long

Oh, and there's another term, that my W herself offered up in a convo a month or so ago, that explains why she had the A (though she still blamed me, in part, and maybe still does - but I'll work with her), and popped back in2 my mind after reading your:

"I am sorry, I tend to believe what people say especially when they back it up with actions and ALL of her actions have indicated that she cares only for herself. Heck, she does not even recognize what she has done to her son's, she just blames FGG."

And that word is: Spite.

Terrible word, spite. Terrible motivator for making choices. Drama and blame-shifting go right along with that, and though spite and drama are a lot subtler from the BS than from the WS (at least in the eye of the BS), drama (and spite, and blame-shifting) are all 2 often behind our actions (or inactions, or ineffective actions, or flames on internet forums).

And it was really cool when my W and I could see this at pretty much the same time. Because now we can talk about it.

Maybe FGG and his W can talk about it at some point.

-ol' 2long

Perhaps you are right 2L, but you have seen actions. You did not have RM in your life continually night after night.

Frankly, one of the reasons I remain here is I am in awe of the people that have endured so much and that includes you. But, I think that FGG set his course after talking to his W last fall, and she has done nothing to indicate a change is required. Your W has responded but only have the discussion with the mediator. Perhaps FGG will be lucky enough to have his W respond, but I am much more skeptical about his W than I am about yours. Sounds funny doesn't given the relative times for each affair. But, your W's desire to do this fits with the pattern albeit a very very LONG pattern.

FGG's W is really of a different ilk in my mind. I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong, but Mimi asked why we(I) thought she was bad. I hinted but did not say clearly, I don't think she is a bad human being, I could NOT assess that, but I do think she has been a miserable W for the past 5 years.

It is up to FGG to know if there is much of any love left. Not feelings or rememberances of love, but the energy to LOVE as a verb.

Must go, and start reviewing a few proposals myself.

Take care 2L, I keep hoping that this new trend is leading you and your W back to a happy and rewarding marriage.

JL

FGG,

I think you are doing what you need to do. I don't fault you at all. I feel sorry for your W, but I don't think there is anything you can do to really help her at this point.

I'm in a similar boat - only less dramatic.

WW keeps throwing out comments like "I can't believe we're doing this", but when I press the question of why she continues to lie to me, she replies defiantly "I'm not a liar". She knows she is, but she can't accept it - can't admit it - can't face what she has done. She wants to pretend that something else happend - that I was a terrible H etc. etc.

In my W's case, there is some history - traumatic events in her early life that simply could not be processed and had to be buried in the interest of survival. For a long time, as a child, although she knew that she was adopted, she at the same time maintained the fantasy that her Mom was one and the same as her original Mom, but just somehow changed. It's just that her little child's mind could not cope with the reality - that, at the age of 4 or 5, her mother had been shot in front of her eyes.

Now, it is a different reality that she can't cope with - the reality of her own fault in all this. If she accepts that, then her vision of her "self" will die.

She will have to go through another identity crisis - after so many changes already - loss of everybody, international adoption, struggling to learn the 2nd language, then they moved again to a third country and again she was an outsider, not accepted, subjected to racial predudice - and struggling on, she became a young lady - trying as hard as she could to fit in, to be assimilated into that society - and then her parents sent her abroad to the U.S - and she started over again as a foreigner. Nine years later, she finally she is a U.S. citizen. But, to admit that she was an unfaithful wife - that it was wrong - that she was a liar and a sneak; that would destroy her identity in her mind of being "the good girl". She can't take it. She won't do it.

She is afraid that admitting what she has done will forever freeze her in that identity. She doesn't realize that accepting full responsibilty for what she has done will free her - and she can go back to being "the good girl" and "the good wife" too - in my eyes even. But she doesn't know that - can't understand it - because in the family she grew up in, no offense was ever forgiven - but was used as a weapon and an insult forever - and the only way for self-preservation was to never admit anything.

All the experiences of her history lead her to believe that everything is stacked stacked against her - and there is no way she can see that it is not so.

In your wife's case, I can't guess if there is any history of this strategy, but I think it's the same kind of thing. If she accepted that she did what she did in fact do, it would destroy her image of herself in her own mind. She is unable to endure that, and instead constructs a fantasy so that her "self" can survive.

I don't think Mrs. FGG is going to really get it before the D. Maybe later, and if it's not too much later, that will be glorious. Because, I believe FGG is completely capable of forgiving her - and accepting her - but only after she surrenders completely. He'll know it when (and if) it happens. I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen in the next month or two.

-AD

GG, Something to be aware of that I have seen in people who behaved as your wife - when they are about to lose something they do a "deathbed repentance", but then at the moment of "the end", they realize that the consequences for their sins is not going away - they get angry and defiant and mean.

Think of teenagers who grew up in good homes, with great parents, who know how to discipline their children - the teen goes out partying - comes home drunk. The parents wait for the child to sober up, then the consequences start. Well, at first the child is defiantly compliant - but then that consequence crosses something - a date of significance where they really wanted to do something - and they bargain, negotiate, remind the parents how many times they've been good to get the "sentence" lifted. When the consequences stay - instead of recognizing their responsibility, they lash out at their parents, viciously.

Your wife doesn't recognize that she alone is responsible - and that makes her a prime candidate for the behavior of cruelty to follow when she doesn't get her way.

So beware of divorce-bound reminiscence of good times past - she's blowing smoke until she owns her guilt/responsibility for her pain and yours.

Hold the line that you only want to hear from Steve - not from her, that the marriage is salvagable.

Another thing that she NEEDS to HEAR:

Look - I'm not wanting to control you - so I'm setting you free. I took a vow to forsake all others; I made that vow with you and with God - no other Gods before him; no other women besides you. I want to be in a marriage where I receive that vow and that faithfulness too. That's not a vow you have made in your heart - though you did in our ceremony. I won't hold you to a vow you don't want to keep - but there will be a woman in my life who believes I'm man enough for her that she will keep that vow and not threaten me that if I don't measure up, she'll find other men to fill in the gaps. I don't want to compromise your integrity by asking you to make that vow any more.

Good Morning to all –

First, let me say that I appreciate the care and concern of each of you. It is humbling to see how many of you care about my situation.

Let me add another thing. Mimi is right that I present my self to you through my own eyes. You only see the best part of me. I have my faults, no question about it. Even though we may have some Goddess’ here, I don’t count myself as anywhere near their equal.

That being said, I know I will not address all of the issues you raise but I would like to share my thoughts on this whole subject.

I do not want anyone to characterize my wife as a “bad” person. She’s not. She’s done some things that I think were bad things, but I don’t see her as a bad person. My parents have wanted to disparage her. I’ve had to tell them that she is the mother of my children, a great wife for many years, and a wonderful DIL for many years. I will not tolerate them talking bad about her.

It is obvious that she is suffering now. She is suffering a lot. Reality is here. She has agreed with her attorney that the best course of action is to sell the house and move into something smaller. This was her (our) dream home. Neither she nor I will ever live in such a nice house again.

I do believe that she has not been satisfied with me as a husband. Period. No Fog. However, right now I don’t look so bad. But…nothing has changed.

I know it’s dangerous when I attempt to be the therapist, but here goes. She has an overwhelming propensity to isolate herself ala Howard Hughes. An example is of this: she mentioned YEARS ago that she would like to volunteer as a “rocker” in the neo-natal ward of a local hospital. She was told they needed volunteers to just come and rock the babies. Once, we even “accidentally” met the lady who is in charge of that program while we were on a weekend trip to Charleston. Knowing that I don’t believe in “accidents”, I believe it was no accident that we ran into that lady. Even stranger, we discovered she lives about 2 blocks from us. She was excited to her that W would like to help, and she contacted W a number of times later. But….WW is still “thinking” about doing it. This has been YEARS. During one of her recent visits to my house, I asked her if she had started that yet. She said, “No, I’ve not felt good recently and I’m waiting until I feel better..” and ….”someone told me some of those babies have AIDS”. I lost it. I told her she always makes excuses about why she can’t do something. I told he so what if the baby has AIDS, they need to be loved just like any other and sometimes you just have to think of someone other than yourself. I got angry. (There Mimi, how’s that?).

Why is this important?

I continue to believe that we will NEVER be able to have a true M as long as she insists on this cloistered lifestyle of hers. We can MC till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, I will NEVER, NEVER be able to meet ALL of her needs.

Mimi, I know that you don’t agree with me on this. I respectively submit that there are big differences in your H and my W in this arena. You have talked about how your H is an important man in the community and in his career. That alone meets many of his needs. It is great that he wants (or needs) to be with you all the time, to stroke you, etc. I too have been a lot like that. WW must have the softest skin in GA due to all the massages I’ve given her with massage oil. I’ve even got a book on massage that I’ve studies so that I can do it right.

Okay, back to the point. I realized long ago that WW was living too isolated of a life. I’ve ENCOURAGED, not pushed, not nagged, but ENCOURAGED her to get involved. I’ve talked about volunteer opportunities, educational opportunities, ministry opportunities, etc. Nope, nothing doing.

However, she did find her interest. It was OM#1, then OM#2.

And…it is (I think) very informative that both OM’s were there for her ANYTIME, 24 / 7. The first OM was retired military and didn’t work. His wife spent much of her time running around with her “friends”, even many times all night. So, her was there to e-mail her all night if she wanted (which she often did).

Of course, we all know the story of OM#2 as unemployed.

But me….I’m a normal guy. I work, I sleep. That disqualifies me as being there ALL the time.

Mimi, you ask hard questions. Am I trying to CHANGE who she is? Hummm, I dunno. Has she always been this way? No, she hasn’t. She’s been needy alright, but the hole has gotten deeper and deeper. Perhaps SAHM syndrome?

Regarding her meeting my EN’s. I’m not nearly as needy as she. There is, I think, many similarities between you and I, and your H and my W. She’s never been overly good at meeting my EN’s, but that’s okay. I can live with that.

And, I’m going to add another thought. (Back to everyone, not just Mimi). As you all may recall, I spoke once about her need to “fix” someone, or to go for the “forbidden fruit” and make it fruit salad. I’m sensing that she now sees me that light. I’m no longer readily accessible, that is presenting her with a challenge. How to “get” me? It’s like she needs me to play hard to get, and we can now have our own drama and turmoil (refer to the recent WOF discussion about this).

Now, to wrap this up.

I see nothing in her actions that indicate to me anything has changed except her panic at reality. One week ago today, she said she would give up OM. The next day….well, that didn’t mean forever. And….it’s all still my fault, he’s just a friend, his marital problems were caused by me, etc, etc, etc.

I read somewhere once that unhappy people cannot have a happy marriage. I’m glad she’s seeing a counselor and a psychiatrist (which I just found out she is seeing). Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope.

GOOD MORNING MIMI…

Georgia

OK, so why begin having contact with her?

Have you asked her if there is OM#1 or OM#2 or OM#3 in her life? And if so, why talk with her...

If not, then what?

You can make another appointment with SH, tell her you are talking with your counselor and would she be willing to talk with him again?

FGG,

You're right...the caring that I see on this thread is very heart-warming. We all benefit - especially the lurkers who read and take this in.

I think you have a sound grasp of your situation. My hope for your wife is that she continutes with her IC and Psychiatrist and that they are able to help her live her best life.

Prayers and blessings to you and your WW. God Bless her.

Oh, Georgia....

First of all, I agree with STILLHERE..a call to Steve seems to be a great idea.. Steve did speak with her in the past and is liable to have a viewpoint regarding this if you are interested...

I've been reading the novel, MY SISTER'S KEEPER by Jodi Picoult and these quotes really struck me in regards to how I feel about my H:




Despite his craziness, despite his "supposed" love for the OW, despite his extreme fogginess and attempts to rewrite our history ("I never loved you"), I continued to have such thoughts and feelings about my H. I continued to feel like I "fit" with him; I "liked" him, the person that he is-not the WH but the H...

I'm not getting that sense about you with your WW. I still get the sense that you want her to be who you want her to be. What do you like about her? Is there any sense that the person that you fell in love with is there at all? Do you think that she would return once out of the fog? WAS SHE EVER EXTROVERTED?

I really identify with her introversion. If you asked me to join committees, hang out alot like you do- even with women friends, that would bother me immensely. I get overwhelmed by a lot of social stimulation and interaction. I like to be by myself/alone and know how to entertain myself well. I am a classic introvert. My H, like you, likes interactions with others, doesn't like being alone at all... The similarities yet differences between our situations are interesting...

So maybe you've grown in a different direction than her and/or now you can really be yourself..maybe the LOVE BANK has run dry..

I do think that a large part of reconciling with her would be to except who she is, not encouraging her to be different..That's what I have learned to do in my R with my H as we have grown MORE AND MORE INTIMATE...I understand better who he is and am open and accepting of that person..who am I to expect him to be different for me? I expect the same of him....

I really question you saying, though, that you have minimal ENs that you want your wife to meet. That would make me feel useless. I wonder if meeting the needs of the OM makes her feel ADMIRED...I wonder if you have been doing too much work in the R and not giving her room to nurture you. I LOVE TAKING CARE OF MY H and value his appreciation of this...JUST WONDERING here...

Think about this in terms of any future Rs you might have if you are not with your WW.. It is important, I think, that you use all of this as a growth experience for yourself...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to take the unusual step of addressing your comments directly. I, for once, can say that you and I aren't connecting on this.



Okay, to answer your question. No, she was never extroverted, and that's not what I'm trying to "make" her. However, she did have some independence, some ability to do things on her own, to have satisfying experiences that she could share with me. And...much like you've said, I do have VERY FOND memories of W, but not WW. Unfortunately, I don't see the mother ship returning W to me, just a continuation of the counterfit.

Right now, if it wasn't for the gorilla in the living room, we could get along splendidly and have a wonderful life together. I LIKE her, and I LIKE her better than anyone I've ever met. I find her smart, witty, attractive, fun, etc....however, it's either me or the gorilla, not both. She just keeps trying to tell me that there ISN'T a gorilla in the living room.



Your very, very important statement:

I KNOW HOW TO ENTERTAIN MYSELF WELL

I don't care if she's an introvert. I was able to put my "extrovert" ways on the back burner for her, and I could do that again if need be. However, she cannot make the same statement as you. She does not know how to entertain herself with anything other than a MAN.



I agree with your premise, BUT....if I happen to be right in my supposition that she relies on me to meet ALL needs, does that mean you are of the opinion that I, or any mate, can meet ALL of the needs of their spouse? I know that you and I have danced around this issue before, with you using SH's viewpoint to support your argument. Far be it from me to differ with SH, but I still have a hard time accepting that I can meet ALL of her needs all of the time. And...if she's not going to be "different", and I've been forewarned about OM#3, well, it's a Catch-22 isn't it?

An example that comes to mind. Early last year, I had to go to D.C. for a one-day meeting. I was to be home late that night. I got back to the airport (National) and all flights through ATL were canceled due to imclement weather. I called her about 6:00 PM and told her I would have to spend the night in DC. She went bananas. Told me that if I really loved her, I would FIND a way home to be with her.

Okay, so I buckled. I managed to find a flight going to another city in the SE (not through ATL). I flew there, rented a car, and drove home. I got home about 4:00 AM. Guess what she was doing when I walked in the door? That's right, sitting there talking to OM on thh phone. I said "hi", took a shower and went to bed. She eventually joined me. I felt like a fool (not to mention quite used and manipulated).

Point it, she DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO ENTERTAIN HERSELF AT ALL.



I think I can honestly agree with you on this. I think that my CA nature, coupled with my need to please, may have combined to encourage her to do nothing and expect everything. I do think I settled for too little, and she became accustomed to providing me with exactly what I expected. And...I can certainly see where this would lead to feelings of uselessness.

Guilty as charged.

That is something that I have thought about a lot, actually. I hope to not make that same mistake in the future, but my need to please is obviously still very much alive and well. (I've been standing in front of my mirror practicing being macho and demanding submission of my woman!! I'm still working on it).

And...I find myself sitting on a fence here in order to maintain integrity in the eyes of each of you here (a rare moment of personal insight?). CA to the death!!

Truth is...I DON'T get a rush of adrenalin when I think about her "coming around" and us getting back together. It is (and Mimi...this is a big difference in us) I almost have a dread of such a thing. Does this mean the "love bucket" is empty? Probably.

All I know is that every conversation that I try to have with her seems to end with the situation being worse than it was before I talked to her.

I can sit and talk with her (like the 6 hour marathon last Monday night) and enjoy every minute of it. I'll start getting that "butterfly" feeling again, and allow myself to start reminescing. But...it seems like she sees that glimmer and uses it to again try to convince me that, shucks...OM is just a friend, you're way too jealous, you have really caused problems in their marriage, you just don't understand me, you misconstrue what I am saying, etc.

Then I have to once again take the "KICK ME" sign off of my posterior.

Georgia