GG, I just wanted to say that I think you are doing the right thing in moving forward in this divorce. You are a good, decent man who has done absolutely everything in your power to save your marriage. Your W has been able to engage in this sleazy behavior for such a long time because she has been protected from the consequences. She reminds me of a low bottom alcoholic who must hit a low bottom before she wakes up. I think it is to the point where the best medicine, for her, is a divorce.

I don't blame you a bit for not wanting to get pulled back into that insanity. I think going back would threaten YOUR sanity. I know it would mine.

I agree with you very much about forgiveness. I believe that you do/can forgive her, but that doesn't oblige you to stay married to her. We may forgive the repentent bank robber, but that doesn't mean he gets the keys to the bank.

No offense to others here. It's just me...My point of view...

I'm just not a person who is able to feel OK about divorce.

It just makes me utterly sad for you, your wife and your family...

That's just me...

I understand what you are doing...but it makes me sad ...

That's just the truth of it for me..

Hi GG

I loved your account of the weekend and the kids you helped.

I do think myself - JMO of course - you have really changed from the person who first posted here. I sense a joy in your life despite the pain and hurt.

As a person who has received the grace of the miracle of forgiveness from my H, I just wondered if there was any actions your WW could take for you to consider holding the divorce?

I certainly understand that the damage may just be too much for you to even consider staying M to your WW AND I dont think you need to explain that to anyone, least of all me, but if there was anything your wife could do has it been clearly and simply put to her?

I wondered if the simple message of 'I need to see XYZ or I need to leave the M' was put to her that simply? In the fog anything more complicated just gets distorted & she certainly doesnt seem to understand its now or never.

But regardless this time its your call whats best for you and I hope you keep finding your way to happiness.

Good Morning, Mimi...

I hope that no one ever "feels OK" about divorce. It is sad, no doubt about it, and I don't like it either. However, we've been through all the "why's" enough that there is no need to rehash them.

Thanks for your input, Aussieswife. I think the message to her has been clearly communicated repeated and simply since Dec. 6. NC with OM (forever) AND complete open and honest access for verification. As you know, she dabbled with that in her lawyers office.

However:

- her NC is NOT understood to be FOREVER
- if I can't meet her EN's there may be OM#3
- my need for no more secret passwords is "adding to the list" (her words)

So...no, there is no more communication to be had about what I need to see, what she must do, etc. It's now down to negotiating the terms of the divorce.

Georgia

Georgia:

I wasn't expecting you to rehash the "whys"...

You sound abrupt.

Am I hearing that wrong?

I hope you understand that what I am saying is that I am not a person who is able to say to ANYONE... "I think you should go ahead with your D...

Alot of people are able to say that to you. I am not able to say that to ANYONE...FOR MY OWN REASONS..I will admit to that...

Mimi...I didn't mean to sound abrupt (that wasn't how I felt when I wrote it).

And, yes, I too understand what you are saying about your personal reasons for your stand. I respect that, I would expect nothing less from the Proverbs 31 woman.

However, I would like to hear an update on your Mom from time to time. Is that possible?

Georgia

Thanks for asking about my mother.

She is in chemotherapy. I don't know the actual status of her cancer other than that. She has loss her hair.

I have visited with her during her treatment sessions.

I am struggling regarding my R with her. I feel numb. I try to imagine losing her and still am left with a sense of numbness.

I don't know what that's all about. I buried my grandparents last year, buried my father and sort of matter of factly find myself calmly thinking, "She's next...that's life..death is part of life...got to make the most of the rest of my own life...."

I just find her H so distasteful..His influence in her life is such a hindrance to my development of a different R with her at this point. I'm glad that she is not alone as she faces this but as I would have predicted, he is not coming to the chemo sessions with her. My aunt is..

What that is about..I do not know....

Hummm....2 replies to you, both of which disappeared.

I'll try again.

Mimi...I know this subject of your mother is hard for you.

"..death is part of life...got to make the most of the rest of my own life...."

I agree completely. I think you may be feeling some of the same things that I have with the DEATH of my R with WW. (Pardon me for saying that I still think our thought processes are a lot alike).

I guess that I've had to deal with being SURE that:

- I've done everthing I can do
- I've not allowed bitterness to overcome me from unfulfilled expectations
- I've forgiven as completely as I possibly can

In both of our circumstances, we want to make the most of the rest of our lives. However, we both have to make sure that "the best" isn't thwarted by remorse of things "we should have done"....

I know that you, like I, enjoy reading (however, I think you've got me beat). I HIGHLY recommend Yancey's book that I am currently reading.

At one time, WW was such an integral part of my parent's lives. They loved her and trusted her so completely. I must say that it has crossed my mind that when it comes time to deal with the loss of EITHER one of my parents without her, that is going to be hard.

Georgia

Georgia:

You see what I am saying...

I experience your D like witnessing a death....am grieving with you and for you....

Likewise...you see what I am saying, right?

Yes. We are on the same page...

Mimi,

I thougth there for awhile that you're mad at FGG for going ahead with his divorce. I can now see you're not.

No,I haven't been mad at Georgia...

Sad about Georgia. YES!!

Good Morning to all -

WW called again yesterday afternoon and left me a message that she needed to talk to me. So last night I called her back. It started out as a conversation that we needed to come to agreements on the split before going back to court, to which I agreed.

However, it didn't stay on that subject long. I'm not going to even attempt to recreate the dialog here, but suffice it to say that she hasn't changed ANY. It's still a big case of I just don't understand her (he does), I don't listen to her (he does), how much he has helped her, etc. I admit that I got angry and told her that I was tired of her thinking she could treat everyone else however she wanted to and still expect everyone to kiss her bottom (using those words). Apparently she was shocked and said something about what a fine example of a Christian I am. I hung up.

I agree with her that we need to reach an agreement before court, so I am going to communicate via e-mail my offer. Hopefully we can do it that way and still get this resolved without having to get the attorneys and judge do it for us.

GOOD MORNING MIMI...(BTW - I knew you weren't mad).

Georgia

I certainly am "mad" at your WW. That's for sure...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

And....(bear with me, I'm in vent mode), she's still on this kick that the relationship with OM#1 didn't end "correctly". It ended abruptly and if I had just listened to her things would have been okay. She felt like he betrayed her by going to our church staff to end the relationship, I should have gotten involved and stood up for her, etc. Our associate pastor was totally out of line to tell her that she needed to get over him and take care of her own husband and family.

I'm very, very frustrated this morning.

Dang...

She's talking about R with OM#1?

She's still living in the past....

She's going to get a rude awakening about the need to be concerned about the present..come next week....

GEE WHIZ....

Yes, that's true. She (crying) asked me how she was going to care for herself, that she's not going to have insurance, etc.

I remained calm and told her that she was going to have to start taking some responsbility for herself and provide for herself. She told me that I had promised to take care of her forever and that she would never leave me.

I reminded her that before I left home she was telling me about how she wanted to be in Vancouver, that her happiness was in Vancouver, that she knew she must be crazy because if she was sane she would have left me a long time ago and moved to Vancouver, etc. She says she doesn't remember saying any of those things.....

And...yesterday she saw "her" car (or one like it) and she told me it reminded her of how mean I'd been to her, to take her car and sell it like that. I reminded her that the night I brought that car home, she was on the phone with OM#2. I reminded her that she said he was upset because he felt like I was buying her things that he couldn't afford and that wasn't fair. Again...she doesn't remember saying that.

She tried, again, to tell me that sometimes she feels like life just isn't worth living. Sometimes she thinks that "going to be with the Lord" would be better than living this way. Then, since I seem to want all the things form the house so badly, I could just have everything and be happy. I didn't say anything, I just let her go and try to get me all upset about her suicide ramblings again. When she saw that wasn't working, she didn't continue on that path.

Okay, I'm still venting....

How sad and frustrating it must be for you to have to listen to her line of reasoning. She is amazing. What a piece of work. It is hard to understand how she is so incapable of hearing how she comes off...the selfishness...selfcenterness.

I can almost feel sorry for her. How can she be so blind? It seems fairly obvious the the OM is like the serpent...using cunning and seductive words to keep your wife hooked...addicted to him. He knows how to say just what she wants to hear. Sick. What they have it isn't a friendship so much as a fiendship. I wonder how much of their conversation is sexual in nature? Did you ever hear both sides of their conversations with a recording device...just curious? I always wonder what affair partners have to talk about on the phone for hours on end...for months and months...extending into years?