FGG, that is essentially how my life has been the past few months. So much so that WH had me convinced that no gorilla existed (though that voice in my head knew). It is NO WAY to live believe me, I understand. Even with evidence in hand to the contrary he still stood there and said "what phone"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Not a chance.
We can, and should, try to meet most of our spouses needs, but can't meet them all. And the bottom line is this - when we fall to the side, and do not meet them all, that does NOT make it ok to look elsewhere. Period. GG's needs haven't all been met either - does he get to take 5 years off from his M to have multiple A's. I think not.

For me, it still comes down to this one fact: GG's WW is still setting heself up for the possibility that this will happen again.

The only person who can meet all of our needs is God. I truly think that GG knows this. When we count on human beings to meet all of our needs, we are only setting ourselves up for disapointment. My ex once told me that I was supposed to put him first, above all else in my life. At that time I thought "he is right!". I realize now that he was wrong. My relationship with God comes first. My relationship with my family comes next.

When I allow God to meet my needs, I am not upset if my new husband comes home late becuase his flight is delayed. I know I am loved, and cared for, and have worth. All of these things come from God, and everything else I get from my husband is the icing on the cake. My new husband gets this. He expects me to put my relationship with God first, and appreciates that. I expect the same from him.

GG - you are right. You can not meet all her needs. That is too much to expect of anyone. I have said this before, and will say it again. What if GG agrees to do everything she asks him to, and then he gets in a car accident and can no longer meet all her needs? Then what? Or he loses a family member, and needs a month to grieve, so he isn't up to talking to her 24/7 and meeting all her needs. Then what?
That is why the marriage vows say "in sickness and in health" because we agree to stay with them FORSAKING all others!

Frankly, 5 years, 2 OM -enough is enough.

I am sad for your WW. She just doesn't get it.

Heck, your WW says that she doesn't trust other women, but there is a woman on this board who is really fighting for your WW, and your WW will never realize that, understand that, or appreciate that! Right now, Mimi is the best friend your WW has, and yet your WW would not even go out for a cup of coffee with her because she "doesn't trust women, didn't have a good R with her mom, and grew up with a brother."

Why do you say that we are not connecting? We ARE CONNECTING in conversation with each other..not necessarily agreeing but still connecting...I think.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



Ok. Good. The love bank is not completely empty. I was not hearing this in your posts yesterday....

There's hope if and when she ever gets rid of the GORILLA....



Point well taken. This is where she is like my FWH.. He does have SOME other interests like work and making money but WHEN AT HOME OR DURING ANY OTHER FREE TIME..he wants to be with me. That's his problem with the computer or any other interest that I have that does not include him..He does not know how to entertain himself. He does not like being alone. I don't understand this way of being...Did she ever include you in this equation as a form of entertainment? So when her work stopped, as in mothering, she needed to spend her time with a man..for ENTERTAINMENT OR in order to feel USEFUL?

I THINK there may be something in this.. She may not need you to meet all of her needs but there are some important needs that you did not meet.

I guess I am suggesting that you take a closer look at yourself..the part that you play in this.

Sure your WW is narcissistic and has her own problems and frailties..

What about you, Georgia? What do you need to change in yourself? I'm not picking you. This is what I have had to face in my ownself...my self-righteousness....



Again, an indication to me that the love bucket is not empty...

IMHO, you need to stay dark, though, your conversations with her have been too lengthy...

I suspect that she has remained in contact with the OM and is still foggy...

Your conversations should be brief..get rid of the OM, NO CONTACT letter, counseling with Steve Harley etc....

With you, though, I think it's a good idea to think about, if you choose, the part that you play in all of this....

BTW, don't CA on me, if you disagree with me about this, go ahead and let me know..it will be alright..

DON'T TRY TO PLEASE ME...THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!!

WOF -

You and I are on the same page on this. I will add that I believe that God meets our needs by sending the right people / opportunities into our lives to bring about that fulfillment of EN's. However, I think it incumbent upon us to assure that we are cautious in our determination in what He has sent, and what he has not. WW has told me that she KNOWS that God sent OM#2 to her because he has "helped" her so much. She and I disagree about that.

Mimi...

Okay, maybe we're not that far apart.

"...Did she ever include you in this equation as a form of entertainment? So when her work stopped, as in mothering, she needed to spend her time with a man..for ENTERTAINMENT OR in order to feel USEFUL?"

I'm not totally sure I understand your question here. I believe that if I did nothing, absolutely nothing, but tend to her by talking to her and "entertaining" her, she would be okay. Is that what you mean?

However, woe to me if something happens like, for example, I have to mow the yard! You may recall that whenever I went outdoors for some work (which is my therapy), she would find immediate solace with OM#2.

Getting back to WOF's comments. Last summer my dr discovered an abnormally high PSA during my routine physical. That was the first time I had encountered this. As you may already know, the first step is wait 90 days and re-test. Well, my re-test was okay.

However, those 90 days of waiting provided plenty of time for me to think what this meant to me and WW. What if the retest had not been okay? What if I had prostate cancer? couldn't work? couldn't...er...well, you know...

What would my life then be like?

I discussed my thoughts and fears with WW. She told me she wanted to more than just a caregiver. I told her that this certainly wasn't the only reason that I wanted to be married to her, but it concerned me that she wouldn't be there for ME if / when I REALLY needed her.

Okay, since you have asked for my CA'er to be put on the shelf. Truth is, if she knocked on my door tonight and handed me a copy of a NC letter to OM, I would have mixed emotions.

And....I do whole-heartedly agree with you that I must determine my own shortcomings, what have I done wrong? My IC (yes, a Christian) did tell me early on that my acquiesce of this R with OM had likely made it much worse and more intense. So...as I think you have discovered in your life (Mimi), CA is a false sense of security that leads to marital woes. By definition, it is a break-down in honest communication because you don't communicate the "bad" stuff. That, IMO, has been a huge issue in our M and my life in general.

Sometimes I find that I have bad news to tell my boss and I may put it off for days. I had to deal with that yesterday. I have made a $25,000 "mistake" and had to face the music yesterday. My palms were sweaty, my voice was cracking, and I was near a panic attack. However, true to form, my boss just said..."well, let's see what we can learn from it and not let it happen again". That's the way he always responds...but I still fight the CA syndrome.

And...perhaps I too set the stage early in the M for us to "always" be together. I'm not so sure any longer that is healthy for an R, even though I remember how much we both enjoyed those early days together.

Georgia

I feel like I'm doing a Steve Harley on you..


You are sounding like me so I'm saying back to you what he said to me...

You said:




Is it "not healthy" or is it that you now want to change the rules in your R. Steve supported my FWH in the viewpoint of: " what worked in the beginning of your R will work now... what makes you think it's OK to want or to expect anything different?"

I absolutely REFUSE to believe that you were EVER a CA'er!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Okay, I DO NOT want to change the rules. We both did enjoy all of our years of "just us". People probably thought we were rude because we tended to just isolate ourselves, leave others out, because we wanted "just us".

I was simply saying that I wonder if this CONTRIBUTED to her need to be with someone ALL THE TIME, and, if not me, than some other man MUST be there to fill the gap.

By the way, in our earlier years I also worked and slept (and mowed the yard).

Georgia:

Should I back off from this?

Are you getting tired of me talking to you about this stuff?

Steve was calling me out on referring to our relationship as being "unhealthy" given that it had worked well for so many years before the A. Steve was saying that I WAS TRYING TO CHANGE THE RULES...

No, Mimi...you're fine. I don't mind talking to you (and others). Actually, I appreciate the impetus to make me think of all these various POV's.

Probably what is going on with my "second guessing" is that I'm way outside the bounds of things I know about and shouldn't be even attempting to rehash history like this. I'm not a real doctor, I've never played one on TV, and I rarely stay at a Holiday Inn Express. I just need to quit trying to figure out things that are beyond my ability, I suppose.

I'm leaving now. Gotta go let Jeb out, take clothes from the washer and put into the drier, and get to church.

Tomorrow afternoon after work is when I leave for the mission trip to children's home.

I'll be in tomorrow. Have a good evening with H.

Georgia

Maybe you should stop second guessing yourself. In your work you make major decisions and manage a team. Everyday you base your decisions on facts on hand and your deductive reasoning. Just do they same here. Try and not be too emotional about it. I know it sounds odd but when you step back you will find the answer.

I think you have made up your mind you are just affraid to face it. I see someone who likes their new life and still loves their WW but not willing to go down that painful path again as she is. After an affair the WS really needs to amend for their sins on the marraige. Is your wife willing to do so?

If you want to give it a go talk to Steve or another MC. You will find out very quickly if your WW is willing to step back into the marriage as wife or as a friend. Even see a pastor about this if you need too. But stop guessing and trust yourself.

When she is truly remorseful and recovery is pending...you will know.

Good Morning -

Nice to hear from you again, MoiNouvelle2.

I'm taking a break from thinking about all this today and allowing myself to focus on my upcoming mission trip. We are leaving approximately 5:30 this afternoon and it's about a 4 hour drive to the children's home.

I'm really looking forward to this. I don't know who is going on the trip, and as far as I know I've not met any of these folks, so I should have an opportunity to make some new friends this weekend. I'm going to volunteer to be on the landscaping or capentry detail as that's what I enjoy the most. (I absolutely REFUSE to help with plumbing!).

We are to return by 2:00 PM Sunday. I don't know what we're sleeping on, but we've been told to bring sleeping bags. I hope we're not sleeping on a floor, my bones don't take too well to that sort of thing anymore.

The Bible study at church last night was excellent. We are studying Phil Yancey's book "What is so Amazing about Grace?" and last night we discussed what it means to forgive when you have been wronged and the implications for us when we truly learn to fogive. A timely message indeed.

Next Tuesday night is my first home Bible study. I'm expecting about 7 folks and we will be using one of the "Serendipity" small group studies from Lifeway entitled "Creative Beginnings".

Do you remember the saga of the "airplane doctor"? Well, after she e-mailed me that she and her new H were finished, I suggested she go to MC with H. She said she didn't know anyone in their town (they've moved to a small GA town). I called First Baptist Church in their town (every southern town has one and it's usually the largest church in town). I spoke to the associate pastor and told him I knew a couple who needed counseling and asked if he could give a referral. Anyway, to make a long story short, I got an e-mail from her yesterday that she and her H have made an appt with him for counseling AND enrolled in a Bible study (The Purpose Driven Life) that he is leading.

To regress, I really do appreciate the input of each of you regarding the situation with WW. It is thought provoking, and I have to stop and look at this whole thing closely from all angles. I realize that, and I also realize that I see the world through MY eyes and we all have our own skewed perception of reality sometimes. It is always good to hear differing views.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI...

Georgia

Georgia:

I hereby rest my case as the DEVIL'S ADVOCATE (not to be taken literally) for Mrs. Georgia. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I do want to say this to you. I had to take a long, hard look at myself recently when I started to apply my religious beliefs to myself. I see that you are studying FORGIVENESS and SERENDIPITY. I would ask, where are you on FORGIVENESS of your WW? Also, what is her PURPOSE in YOUR LIFE? Does God want you to be together? I see you are going on a MISSION. You've even helped another couple. What is YOUR MISSION to YOUR OWN FAMILY? How can you best help yourself right now?

These are questions that I have asked myself which have really been crucial in my personal growth lately....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Fair enough...the jury will adjourn to the jury room for deliberations....

Mimi....

I just wanted to let you know that I don't take lightly what you've said about self-reflection. I do struggle with wondering who I am, what my real core beliefs and values are, etc. What am I deep down inside? Can I be who I say I am and make the CHOICE to divorce my wife?

I guess I still struggle with wondering if I'm really just a hypocrite playing a role to make myself feel okay about....well, myself.

I am getting ready to leave for the day and prepare for my trip. I do think it will be good to get my mind off of all this for a bit.

Thank you all again for your most kind comments and concern.

Georgia

If you are still around...

I hope you have a great trip...

I certainly admire you for your missionary efforts...

THIS GODDESS doesn't do sleeping bags....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Georgia, have a great trip. I believe you need a break...

FGG, just an obervation...

Now that you have been away from your wife's influences for a while you seem to be blossoming.

I can see why you would be conflicted about not wanting to be repotted and put back on the window sill, behind the curtain.

After all this time and effort Georgia, you are NOT required to apologize for, defend nor explain your decision to continue your divorce proceedings.

Im the wife of a serial cheater --last count was 5 confirmed PAs and EAs-- and we used MB principles in the last two years to save our family. Im all for gving it all. However, Im not seeing anything new from your WW. NOTHING.

I think too many of us MBers tend to attach our love for our once WSes onto other people's WSes and we empathize with them because of it. Im seeing that in this thread.

You did a great progression to Plan B-- it wasnt abrupt and it wasnt vindictive. I know for a fact you love your wife- this I do not doubt.

I 100% support you ending the marriage you have now. Dont let others guilt you into second guessing yourself.

Good Morning to all -

I'm trying to think of words to express all that happened this weekend, but I'll likely not be able to do so.

There were 10 of us on the trip and we left Thursday about 5:30. The childrens' home where we went is, as I think I said earlier, for children that have been so severely abused that they can't live in a foster home or any other "uncontrolled" setting. The abuse to these kids is as bad as it gets.

We were asked to help complete work on a building that will be used to house about 5 kids that have "earned" the privilege of living there by their good behavior, kind of like a group home. My job was to install the flourescent light fixtures and wall outlets. At night every bone in my body ached from being on my feet so long. We did sleep on concrete floors, but we had air mattresses so I slept quite well.

We were able to spend A LOT of time with the kids, which was wonderful. There are only 44 kids on the campus, ranging in age from 7 to 17. We had a chapel service with them Friday night and washed their feet. I found that to be a very unique idea, but it was obviously something that was very special to the kids.

Saturday we had a cookout with the kids, and Saturday evening we had ice cream with them. Both times it was at the pavillion on their playground and just an an excellent time to play games and get to know them. It was such a blessing to us, I know we must have gotten more from this interaction than the kids. After we got back to where we were staying, we had a devotion each night and then we talked about our day and the kids. Saturday night we talked until after 1:00 AM discussing what could be done to make life better for these kids.

Seems like we all ended up with a "favorite" after spending so much time with the kids. Mine was a 9 y.o. red-headed little girl w/lots of freckles. She was so cute and sweet. I got to know her during the cook-out, and when she saw me Saturday night she ran over to me and put her arms around me and gave me a big hug. I just melted. We played cards (spades)and she and I played the same hand with her "advising" me. She was proud of her skills and called herself "The Queen of Spades".

I found out later that her mother is an alcoholic, she doesn't know who her father is, and she has been abused multiple times by her mom's various boyfriends. She has been in numerous foster homes and state institutions. She's been at this place for 8 months, which is kind of the "E.R." for the worst cases in the state. All of that at the age of 9.

Anyway, suffice it to say that it was quite a weekend. We all bonded into a really close team with all the time we spent together and with the kids. I did indeed make some wonderful new friends this weekend, and it was kind of sad when we got back and parted to our separate ways. We stopped on the way home for lunch and discussed how soon we can all go back.

WW called Thursday night and left a message on my cell that we needed to talk about what we are going to do. I have't yet called her back, I wanted a weekend without having to be dragged back into that conversation. However, I do plan to proceed with the divorce. I don't see where anything has changed EXCEPT the very minimal that can be offered to hopefully cushion her fall. I'm just not (right or wrong)willing to jump back into a life of WW and OM#1, OM#2, etc.

I read some more of Yancey's book this weekend (What's So Amazing About Grace?). I think I realized something. My reluctance at rejoining WW isn't due to a lack of forgiveness of past behavior, but rather my desire to not be subjected to more of the same in the future. I think I can say that I'm not bitter or unforgiving about what she has done, but I don't want to play that game anymore. I'm tired of the turmoil, the hurt, the pain.....and all that goes along with it. I would LOVE to see her be the person she once was (not a DIFFERENT person), but that's not reality. I think that makes sense.

And....I sincerely appreciate the input of each of you no matter your POV.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....

Georgia