That just kills me, it's all about HER. No remorse, no shame, no guilt for the pain she has inflicted on...not only you...but her sons, the OMW, her parents, your parents, etc. It's all about HER!!!

Anymore mention about her calling SH?

Seems like the PR machine is in full motion this morning (I need Bill O'Reily to help me stop the spin).

Since my post, I've received an e-mail from her. Here's part of it:

"Awoke to my usual news stories on NPR this morning. They said that healthcare costs are going up. Next year employers will pay an average of $8,400.00 per employee. Are you willing to pay that for me for the rest of my life? Now I understand why I didn't get that job at school, and why most employers are not hiring full-time. Even if I get a "degree", it isn't going to be worth much at my age, and I will never have the earning power that you do."

I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not, but I sometimes refer back to what my life was like less than a year ago. Here are some flashbacks:

October 01, 2004

"WW said she was going to see OM with or without me, but she preferred that I go. I am concerned about what she will do if I AM NOT there.

We talked last night for a long time about my going with her. I told her not to mistake my presence for approval, that I consider the whole relationship inappropriate and wrong.

It is not easy, but I am praying that I can demonstrate the high road and maintain integrity through the whole thing."

November 04, 2004

"WW told me that she feels like she is going through her teenage years right now. One comment was that as she went from living at home (w/parents) directly into marriage, she never got the freedom to be on her own. She tells me now that she misses never having that freedom.

Last night I have heard a good bit of the conversation between her and OM. THEY are trying to figure out a way to get him here. In their eyes, I’m the “bad guy” because I have told WW and OM that I don’t think that is a good idea for them to move here. I have been asked to help him get a job."

Anyway, I guess it's not healthy to rehash the past. But when I get these bleeding-heart, your causing me pain phone messages....it kinda brings me back to my sanity to remember what I was enduring less than a year ago.

Georgia

Georgia:

You and my H are so much alike...

Interesting..I've been trying to learn more about this...understand this about him.. It's the "KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR SYNDROME"... the NEED TO RESCUE AND SAVE....

I tested it out yesterday.."I really need your help with this....". I really did need his help with the situation and HE LOVED me asking for his help. I have had the tendency to think it's not OK to ask for help and to think I'm supposed to work things out on my own.. I think that I failed to meet a need of his by being so hung up with being independent...

This goes to say that your WW finally got to you....I agree with most everyone now that she is playing you..trying to manipulate you because, unlike me, she knows that you have that need and understands this about you...

Unlike my H, as a wayward, she is focusing on the wrong issues now... She is supposed to be telling you how she wants to be with YOU..regardless of insurance matters or money needs...She is supposed to be asking for YOUR FORGIVENESS... She is supposed to be saying how sorry she is to be putting your family into this situation..bringing you to the point of divorce...

Instead she is focusing on herself and her monetary needs.. She is playing the POOR ME role..

It is sickening me because I wonder what makes this so attractive and charming? This is how the OW lured my H and he still is vulnerable to this..wanting to rescue needy women.. YUK......

Believe me, I don't find this SPECIFIC part of the sitch attractive and charming. However, it is just more emotional torture for me. I can easily explain that. This is my W of 29 years, my FORMER best friend, who is suffering greatly and about to suffer much more. I have the power to mount my white steed, ride up and rescue her from her pain. That's what I want to do, and she knows it. Seems to me that her time would be much better spent looking at insurance options, checking out available housing, etc.

But...there is no doubt that overall I suffer from the Knight in Shining Armor Syndrome. But....if you will remember my early conversations about WW "rescuing" OM#1 and OM#2, I think that she too suffer from the same. Always wanting to "fix" someone.

Georgia

This is my course of action at this point:

1. Voice mails / phone messages will be ignored.
2. Bleeding heart / woe-is-me e-mails will be ignored.
3. She has in her possession my offer. She can respond (via e-mail) and we can negotiate. If she doesn't respond, we will allow the judge decide the terms of the divorce.

I'm not going to "suggest" anything else to her, such as SH or anyone else.

Georgia

FGG,

I was contemplating your request for settlement opinions yesterday and didn't feel qualified to have an opinion since I've never had experience with it - other than my own divorce.

What is confusing about your situation is that you have a WW who plays 2 roles.

One role is that she is and will forever be the mother of your children. She is your former best friend, loving wife, partner in life etc.

Her other role is that she is a WS, VICTIM, and manipulator. And right now she is acting this 2nd role.

The role that is the mother, etc; would make me want to support and compensate her accordingly with the thought that she has some sort of undiagnosed mental illness etc.

The WS role would make me want to not support and compensate her at all. I wonder if it WOULD be better for the judge to make the decision in your case.

That's his job, and the emotional aspects are diffused. I think she wants to settle it with you because she feels she can appeal to you easier than the judge. She has seen how her situation plays-out in public and it's not pretty.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn it was her attorney who is recommending that you settle first before going before the judge.

Please protect yourself emotionally during this time, and take extra special care of yourself. More walks with Jeb, etc.

I've gotten a response from our HR folks. She would be entitled to coverage under COBRA for 3 years. The rates would be approximately $330 month to continue her medical and dental coverage.

I must say that's not nearly as much as I anticipated. I will forward this on to her so she can use it in her planning purposes.

Georgia

Especially with her pre-existing health issues, that is a bargain.

I know I echo the sentiments of everyone else here, that her current woe-is-me behavior is absolutely amazing.

None of it is unexpected, we have all said for months that reality was going to bite her in the bottom, but I am still amazed at the reality of the whole situation.

I just keep thinking of things like "remind her of how she told you she wanted to be free and single, remind her of the pain she inflicted all those nights when you had to hide out at the waffle house because she was talking to OM for hours, remind her that while she was talkig to OM#1 and then also OM#2, those men were taking time away from THEIR OWN WIVES! When she spent hours talking to those men because they "understood her" their own wives were being hurt.
But I know it does no good to remind her of these things. You wold only hear the same old stuff "you don't understand, they helped me through so much, their wives didn't mind, we were just friends, I was leading them to Christ...."
It does no good to remind her of these things. It only opens the door to further discusion/arguement, which you don't need.

The truly sad thing is that in just a few short months you will have grown so much further than she has. Her refusal to take responsiblity for her own actions, and to accept that she may have caused undo harm to her loved ones, will keep her stuck in the place where she is now. And you will have grown by leaps and bonds.

I'm not going to "suggest" anything else to her, such as SH or anyone else.

So you are officially done, no matter what she does, or says?
BTW, I am just asking, it sounds final to me. Just wanted to understand if it is clear in your own mind.

I am still wondering about what you have said about not talking to your sons about the on going situation.

My thinking goes along these lines.........

Probably you have tried to be the "strong silent type. Handle the trouble. Do what ever it takes, and don't complain about it. Maybe you were raised this way?

I am having trouble figuring out how to say this in a way that gives you information, but doesn't sound like a judgement of what you are doing. Please understand I am trying to help, not preach. I hope this intro doesn't make it worse.....


There is an aircraft lost - damaged. It is out over the atlantic ocean. We have a radio transimssion giving it's location as of 8:00 AM this morning. We don't know it's air speed, or the specifics of the damage. We have this one transmission, nothing else.

We would like so much to hear from the pilot or air crew every half hour at least. We want the damage report, we want to know if we need to send rescue crews, and where to send them. The more information we have the better. We want their speed, and ETA so we can clear the air, if they need to do an emergancy landing, we want to know if we need foam trucks, or if any one is injured and if we need emergancy medical crews there.

The pilot is the strong silent type, he is not calling us. He does do a good job of flying the aircraft though, a really good job.


Now, your sons love you. They would support you better if they only knew how.

They don't know the extent of the damage. They don't know what caused it. The information they ARE getting is false. They don't always know that.
Please give them reports - accurate information. They are big boys, but they are waiting for you to tell them what is going on. You are silent, they wonder why. Tell them point blank that it helps you to see them, and spend time with them. You have feelings, share them. Teach them to share by example. They can help, let them help by giving them the big picture, and telling them HOW to support you.

They are young still, without your wisdom, and accumlated experiance. They wonder if they should stay away, or come closer. Give them clear signals.

Talk to them about what is going on. Assure them you are doing the best you can with what you have. Be an emotional light house to them so that when these storms come to their lives (as they always do) they will know how to respond.

Teach them how you love your W, but are helping her the best way you know how, because they can't see that with the limited information they have. Don't leave them to "get it" on their own, when a few words from the person they love and respect most in all the world could help so much.

Lead - be a leader in your family. Don't just jump up, and run out in front - tell they what you are doing, and why, so they can understand and follow.

Help them get where you already are - you have the ability, they need the help, and then they can help you in return. Call in on a regular basis, and tell them what is going on INSIDE as well as out.

We continue to pray for all of you. You, your WW, and your children. All of us speak from our personal experiance when we write to you, it is for you to do what you think is best. Understand we support you the best we are able.

SS

Still Seeking:

That was beautiful....

I'm thankful for this MB FAMILY OF OURS.....

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I read the above post and my first thought was "GG has all ready spoken to the boys, numerous times." I was remembering a time, a few pages back, when GG was speaking to one of the boys and he said "Dad, if only you had been more forceful with Mom during the incident of OM#1" and GG reminded his son that he had been as forceful as he could be - reading scripture with his wife, leaving the house to hang out at the Waffle House when she was on the phone all night, etc.
I was thinking that he has all ready talked to the boys numerous times,and doesn't need to do it again.But then I changed my mind, and I too felt like he probably needs to initiate another covnersation with them. Just simple, basic info.
Something like:
Just wanted you guys to know that mom has contacted me numerous times regarding her concerns that she will no longer have health care, so I have provided her with the Cobra information.

No need to give them the woe-is-me details. But I am sure she is going to cry to all family members about how you are dumping her in the streets with no health care. It would be good if they knew that you are giving her the tools to help herself.

If nothing else, they can encourage her to take advantge of the Cobra benefit and not just ignore it.

In her current state of mind she is likely to just ignore it, and let the time lapse in which she is able to sign up.

Just a thought.

I remember that I would sit my boys down once a week and say "Ok guys - status check. How is everyone doing? What questions do you have?" and sometimes they said they were fine, and had no questions. Whcih was fine. Other times the flood gates would open. they had concerens, but were afraid to approach me, until I started it.

Hummmm.....

Let's see. Yes, I consider myself officially done, kaput, finished. I'm still hearing the same dribble I heard years ago. In one of my conversations just a few nights ago, she told me something like "if only I had listened to her when she told me that he (OM#2) was depressed and needed help, instead of getting jealous, none of this would have ever happened". My fault, my fault, my fault.....I've had it, sorry.

On the communication with the boys issue. Seems I'm getting mixed signals here. (Edited to take that part out before I incur the wrath of GODDESS)....
I do plan to invite them to lunch Sunday, but that is kind of a tradition. Perhaps I could modify my invitation to say that I will update them at that time with any new information they may wish to hear. However, I will not get into all the specifics.

I don't mean to be the "stong, silent type" through this. I'm trying to allow the boys to live in peace without all the drama. I'd love to see them and lean on them every day, but I don't think that would be fair to them.

Georgia

I'm "gathering my thoughts" about "the boys"...

Is that the same as "fence-sitting"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Oh man...you caught me!!

Okay, here's an idea. What about the following e-mail:?

"#1S & #1DIL, #2S & #2DIL –

As you may all be aware, this is a very intense time. I know that WW is going through a very difficult time, as I think we all suspected she would.

I have talked to her a number of times over the past couple of weeks. My decision is to continue with my course of action for the divorce. There are a number of reasons for that, and I know you may be getting conflicting information. I will not attempt to quote or even express the details of our conversations, but suffice it to say that I am convinced that nothing has changed since December 6 of last year.

WW has suggested that it would be best for us to agree to the details without going back to court. To that end, I sent her a lengthy proposal yesterday afternoon and ask for her input and comments. She would be well provided for in the short term, but she definitely would have to be planning for her own future which would likely be best done by finishing her college education. That would be her decision.

Keeping my promise to MIL & FIL, I have investigated health insurance options. Under COBRA, she could continue with her current coverage for 3 years at a cost of $301 per month, $330 if dental coverage is included. I have forwarded this information to her.

Please feel free to call me anytime and talk with me. I will respect your need for some distance from this if that is what is best for you.

Dad"

FGG,

Perfect as is....IMHO!

I like it too.

Don't be afraid (from time to time) to also say things like "this has been hard for all of us, but we still have God, and each other, and I am thankful for that."

I am not suggesting you say what I said, but things like that. Affirmative statements - that touch the scope of the hurt, and the depth of the pain, but that give hope, and show love. They do have pain, they do wonder about a lot of things - communication about, and acknowledgement of feelings helps too.

Again, I like what you wrote, but think of ongoing communication in the future. It doesn't need to be forced.

My dad calls me weekly and by carful questioning gets out of me how we are. I am 50. It means a lot to me. To an outisder he is talking about the weather, and normal every day things, but he takes my emotional tempature, and he gives support. Perhaps you already do this, if so forgive me for such a long post.

Think on it. I know this is hard for you - but in helping them, you will be doing your self a very large favor too. Prayer is helpful also. It will guide you to know how much to say and when to say it.

BTW, I admire how you are copinjg. I don't know if I could have done nearly as well at showing kindness and love to someone that hurt me as you have been hurt. I support you in being finished, I just wanted to be clear on that part of things. Forgive any questions and comments that add to your pain, that has never been my intent.

May you continue to heal as quickly as is possible for this size of hurt.

SS

I like it, a lot. Gives basic information without trying to make her look bad.

Good Morning to all -

Okay, the e-mail has been sent (just now). I sent it as is.

I haven't heard anything from WW since the e-mail yesterday. No phone messages, e-mails, or visits. That kind of surprises me. I suspect that she may be taking my proposal to her attorney for input before replying. Our court date is one week from tomorrow, so I suspect I will hear from her soon.

I would like to expand on something I mentioned yesterday. When she got all entangled with #1OM, it was such a new and novel thing that I STILL had the trust for her that I'd always had. So when she started out telling me that he was just a friend, and to be patient, and that if I would be patient it would soon be over, etc....well, I still wanted to believe everything she said. Then, as it got more and more intense, I started responding with anger and resentment. She would tell me that my "jealousy" made it worse (she quoted I Cor 13 often to remind me that love isn't jealous), and that I needed to learn to accept him as a friend and everything would be okay. It was kind of like she was trying to unload her burden on me...if I hadn't responded as I did, then she wouldn't do what she did. It took a while for me to realize that my wife had been abducted by aliens and I could no longer trust this impostor. It was (and still is) such a shock to lose my confidant. As I've said here before, I still wanted to go seek her advice as to what to do, because I had always trusted her so completely.

I bring this up because I'm hearing the same thing from her again now. If I hadn't been so jealous of #2OM, then this would never have happened, if I'd have been patient this would have ended on it's own, etc. The "justification" is just so unbelievable. In the e-mail she sent yesterday, she again quoted I Cor 13 and talked about my jealousy.

In one sentence, she will tell me that she knows this is wrong, that it's all her fault, etc. But,then she'll turn right around and tell me "if only you had....".

It is that continuous attitude that robs me of any belief that she has, or will, ever change. If she said "okay, #2OM is gone forever", her core thought process is still there....and so dysfunctional. It relates back to SH's comments about her operating system being defective.

And...she will say things very, very clearly, then if I bring them up again tell me that I am twisting her words and I "don't listen". An example is her very calm, measured comments on my front porch a couple of weeks ago. She clearly and plainly said that if I didn't learn how to meet her needs, then there would probably be OM#3 sometime in the future. But....when I brought that back up a couple of days later, she denied having said that.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the crazy one.

Thank you all for letting me vent on this (as if you had had any choice!). This isn't something I talk to anyone else about, and I find it so frustrating. Jeb is tired of hearing about it, he's more worried about his fleas (he is self-centered, as are most Schnazuers).

This is very stressful. I'm not going to take off another week of work the way I've done 2X before when I thought I was going back to court. However, the first time resulted in a pond, the second time resulted in a deck.

GOOD MORNING, MIMI....(I sure hope I didn't offend the GODDESS yesterday. I can't help notice that she never came back!)

Georgia

Georgia:

I have a question. Why are you doing this to yourself, now?



This is what I was saying a few days ago. This is all that you need to be listening for..that is, if you choose to listen...

Disregard all the other crap that she is saying..it's, as you say, part of her dysfunctional thought process...

I'm not offended at all, Georgia...

Don't worry about that, anyways....

I'm just busy at work...

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