I'm married to a BP-II. He has NO narcissistic "world revolves around me - I get to do what I want, but others better tow the line" attitude. If he did, that would be the final straw that would kill our marriage.

Sometimes mental illness isn't a singular diagnosis. She may have found a label that is safe, but it isn't the only explanation for her behavior.

FYI on living with mental illness: When I was separated from him a few years back, and was living in a shelter with our son for a month, I received some strategy building counseling for my situation. The scenario that fit my situation the best was reflected in what another man did when his life spun out of control due to a wife's BP and willful neglect and destruction of the marital relationship.

After years of marital abuse and neglect, one man moved out of the house to preserve his own peace of mind and the wellbeing of his children who were young teenagers (he received custody, based on his wife's erratic and abusive behavior), but gave her a house that was paid in full. He loved her, but also loved his children and thought enough of himself to know that he deserved peace.

I think the addiction to OM complicates your wife's situation as it will take a professional to help her sort through. That is, if she is willing to face how destructive this (as well as OM#1) relationship has been to her life and marriage and accept responsibility for her choices.

Good Morning all –

Okay, it was indeed a trying evening. I’ll give you the end first, then the details. The end: nothing has changed.

WW didn’t call me back, so I called her about 7:30 last night after CASA training. I told her that I had been reading some on BPD and I had talked to someone who was qualified and knowledgeable about the issue, and that I was curious about a few things.

I asked her how and when she was diagnosed. She told me her psychiatrist told her that she suspected BPD the first time she met her. I asked WW when she was told that this WAS her diagnoses. She said she hadn’t been told for sure, that it was only suspected.

I asked about her medication. She told me she has been on the various meds prescribed by her psychiatrist for about 2 months. This includes Wellbutrin, Paxil, and another “mood stabilizer” drug.

I allowed her to talk some about other issues before going right to asking about meeting her psychiatrist. She first started talking about how hurt she was that I would abandon her when she needed me the most. She said that this had been a rough year for her, and she’s needed me to help take care of her. She tells me she’s decided I never really loved her or I couldn’t have done such a thing. All this time she was very, very angry and sometimes crying.

I was very careful not to argue or debate her, just listen.

She continued to tell me that OM was the only person who was there for her through this whole thing. I had abandoned her and turned her family against her. He was the only one who had stood by her through the whole thing.

She also talked at length about OM#1. She started again this long, long explanation of how he used to e-mail her and use “code” names in the address to let her know that it was him, but all the while disguising his true identity. This was AFTER he and I had sat down with the associate pastor and he had been warned to NEVER send e-mails to women again. (Did anyone see “A Beautiful Mind”?). This is all so bizarre that it is hard to even begin to describe it in a cognitive way.

Recently I told her that I was seeing the local pastor last year before I left home. She told me last night that she considers me seeing him as much a breach of her confidence as her relationship with OM. And…for me to be in counseling without telling her indicates a serious problem on my part.

Then she launched into that idiotic car thing again. She tells me she’s been seeing “her” Thunderbird around town with a lady driving it and smoking in it. She is so upset that someone is smoking in her car. And, of all the cars she’s ever had, that one “fit” her best and she was so comfortable in it. She tells me that the Acura doesn’t “fit” her as well and she’s not comfortable driving it.

I asked her if she remembered her comments the night I brought the T-Bird home. She said no. So, I told her that she said that OM was upset because he felt like I was buying her things he couldn’t afford. She told me that she didn’t believe she said that the night I brought it home, that was later. I asked her to explain to me how I should feel if she said that to me later. Then she said she didn’t believe she had said that at all.

So, I just let her rant on and on about all my severe shortcomings and faults, I didn’t argue with her. She continued to tell me all about how OM has been a true friend to her….blah, blah, blah.

Eventually she started talking about less threatening things such as school. She told me a lot about what she has been doing and various things going on. She got very pleasant and was actual laughing telling me some funny stories about things that had happened to her.

After a good while, I told her that I had enjoyed talking to her.

I told her I knew this might be hard for her, but that the local resource on BPD that I had talked to recommended that I talk to her psychiatrist. I told her that this was a request that I would appreciate if she would consider.

She told me she was highly offended that I would think I deserved to be involved in her personal treatment. She told me that I had chosen to not be a part of her life, and that she couldn’t believe that I would think I had some right to talk to her doctor. Again, I told her that I knew this was difficult, that I had no RIGHT to talk to her, but I would appreciate it very much if she would allow me to do so.

She told me that if I wanted to go to counseling with her and “act like a decent husband”, that she would consider going to counseling with me. However, she would have a hard time ever trusting me again since I had abandoned her and hurt her so much.

I kind of abruptly told her that I appreciated her taking the time to talk with me and apologized for offending her. Then I told her good night and hung up.

Okay, you BPD experts. Say what you want….but I am convinced that future life with WW & OM would be exactly that….a life with WW & OM(x) – where x can represent any number from 1 - 99.

I am going to talk with SH today as I said I would….but I see NOTHING that alters my course. She has been on medication for about 2 months, under the care of a psychiatrist and therapist. However, I’m still the bad guy and OM(x) is still wonderful.

Georgia

EDITED -

MIMI....

Dec. 6 was Plan B letter and "in-house" separation.
Jan. 28 I moved out.

Whatever the diagnosis: she is not playing with a full deck. She has such skewed thinking it is hard to believe this is who she has become. It is hard to comprehend.

Are you sure she didn't display some signs of this messed up thinking prior to OM#1?

It sounds so bizarre.

Oh, Georgia...

This is such a dilemma...

To me, she does sound MENTALLY ILL now..

I'm sorry. I do feel that she needs YOU...

From a selfish point of view, I would understand you divorcing her..However, I still have a strong belief in "IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH...I view mental illness as being a "SICKNESS" whereas she cannot think rationally...the stuff about someone else driving her T-Bird is a clue to how sick her current thought process is...

However, I would love to hear Steve's opinion...

She is likely paranoid..so is concerned about you meeting alone with her psychiatrist..

How about meeting TOGETHER with her PSYCHIATRIST to get a definitive understanding?

As the others have said, this has likely been brewing for many years....

I am sad for you, your wife, your children...

How sad and tragic...

Signs of this before OM#1? No visible signs that I noticed. However, she did tell me a couple of years ago that ever since we've been married she's always had some kind of "fixation" on some other man in her life. She even discussed her very first job after we got married. She had worked for a year and not gotten a raise, so she quite when she was offered a job in a MD's office doing insurance.

However, recently she said the real reason she quit was because there was a guy there who she was getting way too close to and she had fantasies of him being her H. She was careful to say these weren't sexual, but like emotional. She also told me she had these types of "fixations" with other men over the years, some of which were our friends as couples.

I don't know if I believe this, or if it's just a rewrite of history.

Georgia

Mimi....

"From a selfish point of view, I would understand you divorcing her.."

Do you really mean that? Do you think I'm being selfish?

BTW - There is more. She told this BPD thing to the kids Sunday (she told me that last night). I went over to #1S's house last night and we had a long talk. Then I called #2S and we had a long talk.

#2S has discussed BPD with the chairman of the deacons (who is an MD) at his church. The dr. recommended a local psychiatrist who is on staff at the med college. I have called him this morning and left a message asking that he call me. His asst indicated that he could call me today.

Still on with SH @ 2:30.

I am thinking about calling WW's psychiatrist and see if she will talk to me in general terms, not WW specific.

What would you think of that?

Georgia

I am usually very hard on WSs, but your case gives me pause. If she has BPD, as I suspect given her talk about the car and all the pills she is taking, I think you may want to give her some benefit of the doubt. She NEEDS you right now. She just can't come out and say it. And if she has BPD, her pride will make it even harder to come clean. I know: my brother has BPD.

She is reaching out, but is not yet ready to face the shame of her actions yet. That will come in time if you give her the chance. I would suggest you thread lightly but surely towards helping her even if you two don't get back together.

If I were you, I would ask her to answer the following question: "If we were to be in continual contact with each other again, would you have NC with OM?" If she says no, tell her that you now know all you needed to know and then hang-up. She will get you then.

I think it is worth trying before throwing in the towel. Let LOVE be your guide.

Her doctor will not discuss anything with you without your WW's permission. Ask her again for permission. I find in dealing with my brother, even if he says no at first to something, his natural reaction it seems, he eventually relents.

I agree with UVA...who says it better than me...

I'm awaiting to learn what Steve has to say...

Wow, nice backhanded slap there. Was that intentional or did it sneak in all by itself?

GEORGIA-
You are absolutely NOT BEING SELFISH. To say so is disgusting and disrespectful.

WS's can absolutely make this kind of crap up. I think the FACT that she is 'so offended' that you'd want to speak directly to her doctor is A HUGE RED FLAG. If this woman REALLY was interested in having you as her husband, she'd drive you there herself so you'd have the truth.

Honestly, your WW is setting herself up for martyrdom.

I wouldn't dare try to slap, Georgia...

Sorry if you were offended by that word..

Maybe a bad choice of words...

I care a lot about Georgia...He is a GOOD MAN whom I admire..

I read carefully what his WW said to him in the phone call..

I don't think she is making this up...

She is NOT THINKING CLEARLY OR RATIONALLY, IMHO...

If BPD-II, she definitely would be PARANOID and would not agree to him talking to her dr. without her there...

Again, I say, I was trying to say what UVA said...maybe should have used a word other than "SELFISH"...

That is true. But if she indeed has BPD, that goes a long way in explaining her behavior although not totally absolving her from culpability for her actions.

TY mojo,

Let's look back over the conversation, according to WW, she and her Dr. talked about the possibility, but there was no official diagnosis of BP. And why bring this up now? Because she know's she has your attention...count on her to bring this up in court...she has found the bait you will bite at.

Yes, it is time for you to "act like a decent husband" and not allow this behavior in your life any longer. If she is admitting to fixations from long ago, it means she has had this problem from the onset of M and possibly could have a romance or love addiction. Show her, your sons, and yourself what a real M is...and don't accept this any longer, no matter how it's disguised...

Good luck with SH!

Notice the big word here: "IF"

IF IF IF IF IF.

His wife has landed a lovely landmine for him to stroll right over. Her timing could NOT be more perfect. It got her the attention she craves, stirred up even more drama for him, and now HE is the one scrambling, in the final hour, wondering if he should gear up in his shining armor and gather his white horse to charge to the rescue and be a 'decent husband.'

WSs deep, deep, deep in their fog and in their "I'm a perpetual victim" mode NEVER speak or react rationally.

I also read carefully what was said and what has been said before by this WW. She reminds me so much of my mother & great aunts, its scary. ((All also southern ladies)) Polar opposite of my grandmother, who is the genteel sort.

I really, really feel as if GG is going to get sucked right back in under false pretenses.

What WS doesn't exhibit behaviors that mimic mental illness?

Still:

This does not fit at all with what Georgia has told us about his marriage..He had many wonderful years with his wife..

This does not fit with Georgia's view of the definition of a "decent man" or "decent husband"...

I am trying to support the man whom Georgia has described himself as being....

Believe me, I had a WH deep, deep in the fog...He said and did many irrational things...

I strongly BELIEVE IN THE REALITY OF THE FOG...

However, this does not describe Georgia's wife who is concerned about people smoking in her car....a car which was sold..which she no longer owns...emotional lability and mood swings within a brief conversation..not typical WS stuff...

Rewriting marital history...seeing the EA as just a friendsip...YES, this stuff is typical WS..but the ABOVE is not...IMHO...

It is not a simple thing for Georgia to walk away from this and to live with himself happily...

He will need to know for sure...I think...

I'm praying for his HAPPINESS...

And I can't help but be concerned about his WW...

SORRY....

Mimi- she was b*tchin' about the car because she still believes HE HAD NO RIGHT to take it from her. It still irks her that he made a decision that removed her from the equation. So OF COURSE she still sees it as her car and will complain and pitch a fit that someone else is driving it.

My mother still does this about her former home in San Antonio. My father retired from the military and moved her to her homestate (he's from Tennessee) and built the home she wanted. He did not adjust well to Texas (or civilin life) and moved them to Kentucky to be near *his* family. The house has been sold for awhile, but when she is in town she drives by it and complains about what the owners are doing to 'her house.' Its passive aggressive.

What was the purpose of her making this statement? Is she saying that she has always had this fixation, and always will? Is she saying that it is basically your fault that she has this fixation on other men?
She has been on meds for two months, and still does not say "I have had this fixation on men for years, and I FELL BAD about that. I want to stop doing that.

I bring this up because I heard this same line. My Ex says that there was always some woman that he had converstaions with. And that was his proof that I was not a good enough wife for him. I responded that it was only proof that he was not man enough to do the right thing, and take care of his family.

I wonder if she would be willing to make an emergency appointment with her IC so the three of you could meet.

I just feel like this whole alleged BPD II diagnosis needs to be cleared up. the boys, and her parents, need to know if it is an acutal diagnosis or not, so hey can become educated.

GG - you are NOT being selfish.