I'll chime in too with my thoughts about postings being "over the top". Mimi, you seem to be way too emotionally invested over the outcome of FGG's life. If he doesn't follow your advice, or has "let you down" then your emotions are tied into this outcome. You are pursuing an agreement with your way of thinking, and will not give up unless he agrees with you.

The R you have with FGG may be getting a bit too entrenched for a public or non-public forum. Yes, you care. But by "helping" FGG are you helping your M? What are you getting out of this?

My suspicion, and I wil know the answer based on your reaction, is that you and FGG have developed an EA that may not be appropriate for 2 M or xM people to be in.

Have you checked on the emotional attachment level you have lately? Is it appropriate or over the top?

Whoever deleted their post a few minutes ago, mine went with it...

I'm taking that as a sign that God says, "Shut up!"

(I'm emotionally attached.)

And yeah, stuff we heard through you that your WW said about OM#1 and #2...well, we're hearing it again through you...about your OW...it stabs and hurts because it does...self-betrayal hurts, too.

See? Apparently I'm not listening to God right now, either.

:::::

LA

(Edited to add: I'm emotionally attached to a lot of people here...happens when you hold them up for prayer, read and share what they allow you to here...and speak about what is most intimate to you--which is God for me. And I share their lives with my DH, too. I hold no fantasies...recognition of journey. I believe we are telling our emotional reaction to FGG's news to be honest where it was not before. No judgment. And still being here for him counts.)

Hey FGG,

What was the overlap like? How long have you been seeing her?

Have you thought about posting on D'ed and dating?

I am not condoning nor accepting any decisions you have made. I'm not sure it is wise to fall into an R so soon...too much baggage...it does not bode well for this new R, she will reap the percussions of triggers from xW you are feeling... At LEAST give the R a year or 2 before you consider anything legal...not to back out, but to give yourself time to heal...

Okay, so I was trying to be diplomatic but, yes, this is exactly what I was implying.

BB

Still and Brit:

I hear you..really do..but I don't agree with you. I don't think my postings to Georgia are any different than my postings to others like Eav..or..Hurting...there are folks here that I have become like I said before..kind of "emotionally connected" to...I acknowledge that...

I don't really need for Georgia to follow my advice. I don't see that. What do I need for him to do? I really doesn't matter to me at all what he does. I have been as an amateur, here, trying to help him..like anyone else, I think. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't need for him to do anything. I do think that it would be appropriate and it's my opinion, for him to share with his wife what he has done. I think that follows the MB System and I think it's appropriate given that Lynn works in her doctor's office.

What may be over the top, is my opinion that not overlooking this may be helpful for other people. That's why I am not letting it go.

If I need to shut up because it looks like I'm too emotionally invested, maybe I should. I think that I have already said all that I need or want to say about this.




This is my honest answer to this. I really don't think it's relevant but I think it's necessary to clear this up because I don't want what I say to Georgia to be colored by this. I don't believe that I am having any sort of Emotional Affair with him. This has come up before so I want to make this very clear. I am not at all attracted to Georgia and never really have been on that level. For goodness sakes, I don't know anything about him. That's even clearer now...and he definitely knows nothing really about me...where I live, what I do, what I look like, etc....If I were to have an emotional affair, it would be a lot more intimate than this. All of the interactions that I have had with Georgia or anyone here has been right here on this forum. I have chosen to never get involved with E-mailing anyone here. Enough said...

I really moreso have identified with Georgia's wife...mother of two sons..in midlife...longterm marriage...suffering from depression..I have lots in common with her and even more now...

I have been at risk for having an Emotional Affair..during my Plan B..but put quickly put up safeguards to prevent this from happening once I realized where it was leading...

I think this is where my emotionality on this comes from...

My FWH met the FOW in a professional's office which we frequented. She had full knowledge of personal information about me while she was carrying on with my H for years. I continue to resent that. She took advantage of the occasions that he frequented that office....You see the correlation...

Plus, I am an intense, emotional person...

So there....

Still:

You may have not been reading this closely.

Georgia began his relationship with Lynn soon after his separation from his wife..before his divorce.

He called to ask her about her wife's medical condition while he was still at home.

My H knows full well about my postings on MB. I usually don't post at home, though..H so happened to be not at home last night..so I had some free time.

This is my people-pleasing trying to explain and justify myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

MB has helped my personal recovery more than anything else in the past few years.

Maybe this is telling me to back away some..so this is helpful in that regard...

Not ready to go away for good though...

Edited to add: I hope this is not about..back off of Georgia because I don't think that would be helpful to him..again, my opinion.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OK. Enough of this.

I don't care if Georgia had a PA with Lynn.

We are straying off the issue here.

Trix, has it and understands. If you have followed this thread closely, I have identified with Georgia's X-Wife consistently...and have wondered about her viewpoint.

I identify with her.

Come to think of it..this is sort of like a flashback to me.

Georgia, is reminding me of my FWH..so I am emotionally invested and will back off.

I have said all that I need to say and will go off of this thread and ENJOY the rest of my day..eating my lunch..talking with my H on the phone...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I'm going 2 2uote from a post of mimi's a page or 2 back, because it hit many of the things I've been thinking about, and much of why I followed and posted 2 FGG's thread over the year or 2 he's been on here. I don't mean 2 ignore others' posts or points, as I agree and disagree with elements of all of them.

I'll admit it... ...I come here still for selfish reasons. I still have a lot 2 learn, and I believe that valuable lessons are contained in the positive applications of MB methods as well as in the mistakes. Even the measured honesty has a lesson in it for me.


"How do we address this situation biblically?"

At various times, I've stayed off this thread because I have felt my opinions have not always been welcome because I'm not religious. But I do have a strong Christian background and a reasonable "working knowledge" of the Bible - and frankly agree, still, with the spiri2al concepts therein.

But I still believe we can learn something from this experience that FGG has unfor2nately had 2 live for us 2 do so on this forum. So be it. The past and the choices made in it are what they are. Let's all try 2 move forward, hopefully with a bucket full of newfound and earned wisdom.

"Georgia, himself, was having an A at the time of his divorce. Does it matter that Georgia's A was most probably even a PA whereas his xW's was an EA."

FGG. How about some radical honesty for us as an experiment for when you might be advised by SH 2 be honest with your family?:

In your opinion, knowing what you have learned here, are you involved in an A with Lynn?

EA and/or PA?

When do you believe that it started?

If you acknowledge that it was an A when it started, what steps do you plan 2 take (if any) 2 insure that Lynn might even2ally be accepted in2 your family? People DO have successful long-term relationships starting from As, but as you know the odds aren't in their favor.

"It is so unfortunate, IMO, that Georgia's xW has been made into such a "BAD GUY"...I wonder what her perspective would be if she posted here..."

THAT would be interesting, but I doubt it will ever happen. I doubt she'd feel safe here. But there are many infidelity-related forums out there, some of them quite good. Maybe she could find help somewhere they don't "know" her story from FGG's telling. But she'd have 2 want 2 go 2 a forum.

"As you all know, including you, Georgia, I have held on to some sympathy for her. Now I feel that my thoughts about her had some grounding."

Me 2, mimi. Me 2. Basically because I've felt that same sympathy for my FWW for probably the last 2 years of our struggle. She doesn't "know the drills", other than my LBing pontifications of what she ought 2 be doing. I can't educate her, she's got 2 want whatever help she recognizes she needs. It's HER process, not mine, even though we are married. There is still so much good in my W, as well as much confusion. I suspect the same is true for FGG's xW, though perhaps we'll never know. We CAN know, from hearing similar stories for years on here, that FGG's involvement with Lynn before the DV, however innocent it may have been, had an impact on his ability 2 help his xW. That's not an admonishment, just a sad fact.

"I feel that she was betrayed my her healthcare provider's office, for one thing...."

And for such a wonderful gal 2 do that, I have 2 attribute it 2 naivete on her part. Sadly, there are herds of people out there that are unaware of the damage they can cause by getting involved in such a si2ation. FGG should have known better, of course. Again, not so much an admonishment of FGG as a jumping off point for the next phase of his process - what will you do now , FGG?

"I know this is a forum and Georgia is a stranger to me but I feel betrayed and deceived...."

I've thought about this a lot in regards 2 FGG's and KiwiJ's recent developments. I feel hurt, sure. But I'm trying 2 make something useful out of my feelings here 2 help me in my own relationships. You see? I don't talk 2 my W about how much I post here. I have talked 2 her about various people's sitches and how they've dealt with them, particularly when they seem relevant, but not all that recently (probably when Spacecase told me his xW wanted 2 start over in January was the last such time). She knows I have posted, but not almost 10,000 times in the last 4.5 years as 2long and Qfwfq. I should tell her all someday... ...but I'm not ready 2 yet. But developments like these make me aware that I could easily cross the line from having valid privacy in2 keeping secrets.

"Confirms for me how we all have to be watchful and alert in our dealings with others...."

Indeed.

"I certainly have lost my naiveness and have developed increased cynicism over the past few years...

Is this true of any of you?"

Definitely. And I think I've had 2 be watchful of how I react 2 news like this. I won't run away from here, though I do find it useful from time 2 time 2 take breaks - lest the drama harm my ability 2 interact with my W in a positive way.

"This confirms the necessity of alertness and vigilance.."

YES.

-ol' 2long

Way to go Mimi!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Don't ever leave us!

I haven't posted much because I'm waiting for the whole story. It's coming out in bits and pieces....

Apparently Georgia is simultaneously a BS and a WS, but from what I've read lately he's in a WS mode. I can't believe that after so long he doesn't recognize his words as exactly those the WS use when they are in the middle of the A!

Georgia, have you read other threads? Have you ever read threads started by WS?

I never get involved in those. I don't think you can help a WS on this forum UNLESS he/she's willing to be helped.
The fact that Georgia has been having his A for so long although I don't quite know how long and never thought about mentioning it means that he hasn't got to the point of realization that it IS AN AFFAIR!!!! Just another sleazy affair!!!!!

Maybe, just maybe, he's realizing now. And that's what hurts most, realizing. I hope so, because I for one, admire him as a man. We all make mistakes. It will take some time and patience to see what kind of man he really is.

But again, Mimi you're coooooooool <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have an appointment with SH Thursday morning at 7:00 AM (CDT).

Additionally, there is a pretty well known Christian counseling group here in this city. I have contacted them and they are to be calling me back to set up an appointment this week while I'm here.

I'm taking this approach as seeking "Godly counsel". I know that it's generally accepted that the one should follow the guidance of one counselor. If I followed the advice of my IC at home...I can assure you none of you would agree with him.

Until that time, I don't see any further benefit in having my dirty laundry aired right now. I am going to do what I can to get some substantive advice on how to correctly deal with this issue rather than taking a poll.

Mimi...I'm sorry you got dragged through the mud on those posts earlier today, you and I both know that was quite undeserved.

cc...with patience, I suppose we'll find out.

Georgia

Please let us know the outcome of your session, Georgia.

Continuing to keep you and your family in my prayers....

"Until that time, I don't see any further benefit in having my dirty laundry aired right now."

How convenient.

"I am going to do what I can to get some substantive advice on how to correctly deal with this issue rather than taking a poll."

Always good advice. But who was asking you 2 take a poll?

Do what you will, but I thought this forum was for talking things through.

-ol' 2long

I think my emotional investment in this discussion is complete.

best,
-ol' 2long

I'm reading this and trying to understand it. So Formerly GG's wife had two EA's spanning 6 years. He was seperated (yes I know the feeling on here about not dating until the divorce is final) - then he started seeing a woman after seperation and you feel sorry for his xw????? I'm not sure I understand. I'm not condoning the fact he dated before his divorce was final. I waited but why would you feel sorry for his wife who didn't seem to want to do anything to make their marriage work?????

Happy:

I don't want to ignore you..it's a long, long story...

Georgia, has a long history here (compared to some) that actually began in 2004..several of us have been posting to him since that time...

I didn't say that I "feel sorry" for his wife...

I said that I relate to many different aspects of her life...EXCEPT for her EAs, of course....

I DO feel sorry for her in the fact that the OW is from xW's doctor's office (confirmed yesterday by Georgia) and she has a number of medical problems...

Plus, keep in mind, Georgia's "SEPARATION" was a Plan B..supposedly, MBing...

I know..I said I was going to stop but I didn't want Happy to be confused....

Oh My.....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Since you keep bringing that up...

xW told me long, long ago that she had switched doctors and was no longer going there. Her dr. left town and she didn't want to choose from the others, so she went elsewhere.

Oh My....

You're missing another important point that Lynn would even do this while your wife was a pt. there....

It's great that she isn't a patient there now, though, since they supposedly upheld Lynn's unethical behavior..

Mimi...leaving now with a sigh...

One thing about this MB community: it challenges us to be our best selves and we are encouraged to do our best to live our lives with integrity. Radical Honesty.

I agree with 2long that I, also, have learned a lot from reading here. It can be an interesting study on our human nature and patterns of behavior both good and bad and in between.

FGG,

I still like you, sort of. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I could have happened to any of us. Those of us who for various reasons are not attractive are not tempted as much. I'm sure there were moments when I would have been vulnerable if oportunity (or temptation) presented itself.

I wish you well, friend.

-AD

FGG,

I’m not sure if you remember me or not, but I felt the need to post. You may remember me as FYR and before that I was YellowRose. I tried to login as FYR but was not able to post to any thread so I set up a new user name. I’ve been a lurking member here for more years than I care to think about – from a little bit before the days of Mortarman’s first anguished visits to this site. Lisa In London and I had something in common back then in that we both came to this site as WW’s.

I really wanted to raise some points for you to ponder and possibly even pray about away from this board…between you and God. I am going to try to stay away from discussing your feelings because as we all know – trying to debate feelings with anyone is often fruitless. I’m not saying your ‘taker’ is in charge, but as a former WW who used years of abuse and loneliness to ‘rationalize’ her choice (oh yeah, and my total justification) to have an EA which morphed into a PA…I am all too uncomfortably familiar with the way one can slide into an affair almost before you realize it has happened. I too was separated and had filed for divorce before I met my OM in person. The EA had actually started a couple of weeks prior to separation to be honest. At the time I wasn’t thinking (hah, is that ever right) ‘hey, I want to have an affair and betray my husband because he’s been a jerk’.

I had no idea I was so damn lonely because most of the time I just stuffed this all away so I could keep on functioning. Sigh, enough about my crud – here are the points I want to raise with you and please understand that I am not attacking you or Lynn here at all, I want you to seriously think about these points as if you had no emotional attachment to her at all, which is probably impossible – at best, maybe you might be able to consider it in light of how you would feel if someone else on this board had shared this with you:

1) While I will not debate whether she is a Christian or not because that is ultimately between her and God – I would debate the authenticity of a person’s ‘walk’ and possibly their ‘ethics’ because here is why –
a. What professional in their job capacity who has strong moral ethics and a firm Christian walk would practically offer sex to a hurting married man who was desperately reaching out in some way to help his estranged wife? If you sons had told you a story of a separated man and his wife’s PA who responded this way, what would you seriously know about her just from this example? I’d at least that she is a wounded individual who has crossed a professional and ethical boundary as well as a spiritual one.
b. What Christian with a tight and healthy relationship with Jesus, who was walking firmly on His path would offer a married man sex outside the bounds of marriage? What would you think of someone who would to this? Would you condemn them? Of course not! But would you hold them up as the ideal that you have raised Lynn to? I wouldn’t think so. Can a person be a sinner and have goodness inside them? Of course! Look at all of us! However, I beg of you not to attribute such goodness to any person without equaling examining questionable and possibly unethical behavior that was committed in reaching out to you in a manner that was seductive and tainted…and just plain inappropriate.

FGG – Please know that we all have parts in everything we do – Lynn definitely had hers and I cannot call it anything but wrong – however, all affairs or even if you want to shy away from the word affair – your relationship with her required two people and not just one. I do not wish to hurt you or to bash you or to hurt or bash Lynn – I guess I just want you to hear me because your words and the way you describe Lynn sound so much like me describing and thinking about my OM that I literally cried. Please don’t feel bad at all for the fact that I said I cried – I feel I know you a least ‘cyber’ well enough to fear that you might feel bad – I cried because I took inappropriate feelings and acted on them and to this day the depth of what I did not only shames me – it scares the living h*ll out of me.

I can sooo be in that place again – I just know this – I will never trust myself again to be proof against an affair. I’m too hurt and too vulnerable and too alone to trust myself. I may never trust myself again. I don’t know if I should ever trust myself. If I’m at least on guard at all times, hopefully I will die one day never having had another affair. I actually quit posting here because I felt my guard slipping and I was forming feelings of affection for a member of the opposite sex so I knew I had to leave and I did so with no warning. That is simply one of my own personal boundaries. While I also felt feelings of affection for people like Mimi too, I can no longer trust my ‘feelings’ to stay in their proper place when it comes to the opposite sex. I tried that once and I ended up violating almost every personal ethic and value that I thought I once held near and dear.

FGG – I met my OM in a Christian based group – I was separating from my husband. He was so wonderful and so involved in his church – he was so committed to his family (he was divorced – I’m talking about his parents and brothers)..and to his kids. He was a Music Ministry leader. He was so many things that I ‘realized’ my husband was not. He encouraged me to do what I could to save my marriage for a while and failing that, to divorce with my head held high. I cannot even convey to you the attraction I felt for someone who was so devoted to God, to serving others, to his Church, to his ministry. He even tried to say some good things about his ex-wife and took some responsibility for the problems they had – man, if Cupid had anything bigger than an arrow aimed for my heart – I would have been a goner. Also, the people in his church thought the world of him and he never ceased trying to help others..and he often cried tears of sympathy and love for others.

I knew this OM for a total of 3 years and it took well over a year before I truly realized or maybe it was more ‘truly accepted’ that not only was he human and not anyone’s ideal (my words, not saying this is about you and Lynn here)…and then the truth slowly started to emerge. Here was a guy whose friends I had met who knew him for years…whose church I had attended..whose family I had met..and no one really knew the whole truth of him. He was at worst a professional sexual predator and at best a very very sick and flawed human being. He was a liar and a con man. His whole persona was so ingrained..but yet it was a front. His words after many many many months did not line up with scripture – his behavior from the start – talking to and taking the confidences (insert ‘secrets’ here) of a married..and yes, very unhappily married woman at that, were totally wrong and we all know it. It was WRONG! Nothing changes this, not even if he were to have turned out to be even ½ the man I thought he was. And I was even more wrong – I was simply and irrefutably married. Married..period – end of story, no ifs, ands, or buts. Heck I can even go one further and say ‘well darn it, I wasn’t even a Christian at the time so can I get a ‘biblical adultery exemption card’?

I can even justify it that I was separated and had filed for divorce..and I could list out the grievances against my husband which would fill up this page including porn and all other types of things, but what I did was simply wrong. I don’t think you are saying what you did is right..I think you know that, I worry FGG that you truly don’t see the magnitude of the wrongfulness here and I think that will hurt your chances more of any successful relationship than anything else. I beg you to take off the rose-colored glasses regarding Lynn – it isn’t fair to her and it isn’t fair to you, but I’m only concerned about you because you are the one who is here. Please separate your feelings – be leery of ‘feelings’, they lead you to many a slippery slope…separate these feelings and then rethink about how you met Lynn and how you were propositioned by her while you were married. Two wounded hurting people in a relationship – well, FGG – I think the outcome for a successful relationship would be grim. I think you deserve so much more than this. I worry about what you’ve allowed yourself to settle for. You deserve to heal and you deserve a fellow Christian who is also healed – and who depends on God first and then you second (if you were to marry). You deserve a relationship untainted from a suspect beginning.

I know how you might feel right now FGG – maybe not even wanting to give up the relationship with Lynn because you feel some peace and happiness…and more importantly hope…for possibly the first time in a long long time. If Lynn is all that you say and all that you hope – then I think a time-out would do nothing but help the both of you. If it is all so good and wonderful – then it can stand the test of time. I think you both seriously need to meet with a pastor or good Christian counselor (separately!) and Lynn needs to discuss how she met you and what she did and said with ruthless and unrelenting honesty. Maybe after both of you have healed from your past and current baggage, possibly there could be a chance for you, but any relationship founded and based on this sort of a beginning, well I fear for its chances and even more, I fear its impact on you.

Please know that nothing I said here is intended to hurt you although I realize that may be a possible outcome and it is one that I truly regret, but I also care enough to take this risk regardless. I realize our situations are not identical but I could be silent no longer without offering you my warnings and asking you to consider what I had to say. I do indeed wish you well. I wish you many blessings and all good things that can come from God – happiness, family, loyal dogs like Jeb, sparkling ponds that bring happiness to their owners, and many many many other things. Mimi – I am so glad you and your FWH are doing so well. It makes me smile to read how you talk about him and how far you’ve come. I wish you and your FWH much happiness and a great and lasting love. I’ve missed you and everyone here so darn much.

Best Regards,

FYR