Big, big, big day in court tomorrow for CASA...

I've been on the phone with DFCS for quite a while today, that caseworker has my total respect.

We're expecting some real fireworks tomorrow.

I agree with CC about talking to your son.

Your sons only get a little bit of the puzzle.

I would imagine by now you have seen Josephs letter - the one that talks about how the BS only has some of the puzzle, but the WS has all of it.

This is not exactly the same, but it is similar.
Your sons have no way to see all the puzzle unless you show them your pieces.

Your XW will skew the picture and they have no frame of refrence or "control" if you will, to know what's really happening.

That's why we need the spirit of God to counter the temptations we encounter - but we need other things too. Without the scripures, attending church, and in some cases an accountibility partner, where would we be?

I think that trying to let them figure it out themselves would be fine if she wasn't talking to them, but she is. They need the other side - they need to be be reminded about the thousands of minutes on the phone to OM, and how she blamed you for everything.

They need to know about enabling behavior and what the result will be if they enable her now that you have stopped.

You have studied much, and spend hours and hours thinking about this. They have little or none of the information you have had access to.

If you gave them a condensed version every few months, or every month it would help them. They need information to make correct decisions - and it's information you already have.

This is a different - it's not enabling them. It's giving them enough information to make informed decisions about how to best help their mother.

Remember that God could send an angel to teach them, but he usually uses others here instead. He uses others who already have the information, and lets them pass it on to those who need it. Who better than their father?

You don't have to tell them what to do. It can take the form of you telling them what you are donig and why.

"I learned about enabling behavior this last week. I learned that by not letting your mother face the problems that were being created early on, they became much worse than they should have. According to _____________ (Authors name) I should have let her have consenquences from the beginning and then perhaps she would have learned from her experiance.

It is the same now, if I were to rescue her from her choices she will never learn, and it would be my fault. I am holding back on purpose in hopes that she will see where this is leading to. I recommend you boys think about it also - and pray about what will be best for her in the long run."

Now, you can probalby do much better than that, but that's the idea.

It's a parents job to teach correct principals - and then let the child choose. We will be teaching them all of our lives - even after they marry and have their own children.

As long as they fail to understand, keep teaching.

BTW, I am 50 years old, and have 4 sons. 3 out of the 4 are married.

A few years ago my own father came to me with advice. I told him I was grown up, and married, and I could make my own choices. He said "Yes, you can make your own choices. I am not trying to tell you what to do. I am giving you advice, and you would do well to consider the source and take what I am telling you into account before you make a decision."

I have thought about that many times since. It was not only his right, but his responsibility to talk to me.

Is it not the same for you in this situation?

Our earthly jobs will end at retirement or death. Our job as fathers will not. It is a great privilege to be a father, and it is also a great responsibility. Consider prayerfully how to best help your sons. Remember that even as you need help sometimes, they do also. What better source then their father.

SS

SS -

That is a wonderful post, thank you.

Last night the facilitator gave me a book (Partners..Healing from His Addiction - Weiss)...telling me that it would be helpful to me..just change the he/she roles around.

And...2 paper "hand-outs". One of those is entitled "What I Have Learned Through Divorce".

Here are some excerpts:

"Through grieving my own losses in the divorce, God is giving me a greater understanding of my children who have expereienced similar losses. Rather than reacting to their hostility, power plays, unhappiness, confusion, and manipulation, I am beginning to understand the emotional pain that is underneath all their acting out toward me. They are not my enemies. I am not their enemy. The emotional pain I am experiencing is the same emotional pain they are experiencing. The healing I am experiencing is the same healing they need. Rather than reacing to my children, I am learning to identify and share my similar emotional pain with them, to share my similar strugge with them, to share my healings with the, to share what god is revealing to me about myself, about Himself, and about His solutions for me with them. I am sharing with them my resources (such as a divorce recovery Support Group, recovering divorced friends of the same gender, books on divorce that I'm reading, God, prayer, fellowship with Christian friends, being discipled and discipling others, etc...) that have personally helped me. I am encouraging my children to read books on children of divorce and to attend a divorce recover Support Group for children (as is age appropriate). I am encouraging them to be emotionally honest, to take personal responsibility for their own emotions, to verbally share their emotions with a safe person rather than acting them out, and to look to God to help them process their emotions because He understands them and unconditionaly loves them."

Whew...I think that is, SS, what you were saying.

I must ponder this. I have not yet reached that plain.

Georgia

All I've got to say is...

the system that is supposed to protect children FROM adults is not only broken, it is corrupt as well.

I had a very, very disappointing day in court today.

I suppose more seasoned CASA volunteers learn to not let this bother them.

Georgia

Good Morning (afternoon) -

I just wanted to check in real quick from Illinois. I had a nice trip up (flying) yesterday after a Father's Day lunch with #1S/DIL.

I've been reading a book entitled "Partners" by Weir (I don't have it with me...I'm going from memory on the name). There are a number of brief stories by women who are / were married to men with sexual addictions. Even though this book is specific to that suject, it is amazing to me the similarities that can be paralleled to other addictions (OM, OW?). A very insightful book...very easy read.

I have decided to forgo pottery for a while in favor of the Tuesday night recovery group. Unfortunately, I'll not be in town for either tomorrow night.

Welcome back, Mimi...

Georgia

You already know that life is a journey -

Recovery is a journey. For you, and for your children.

It's not an event where you can say "yesterday I was hurting, but today I am recovered."

It will be on going, and take a while for all of you.

Yes - learn to talk to them about their pain, about their feelings. Many times men are trained not to talk about feelings. Not on purpose, but it works out that way.

If you can learn it, and talk to them, they will learn it, and do that much better because they will have more skills.

It will also help you in future relationships.

Learn to listen to their feelings and draw them out. Get them to talk, but also share your feelings. About how you still miss her, how you wish it had been different. About enabling behavior - what you learned. How you hurt, about being lonely.
Share, but don't unload. It will come to you.

I am sorry for a system that lets children continue to be in harms way. I don't know what you have seen, but I am sorry.

It helps (me) to know you are there working to improve things. All of us should be helping the world in some way. Remember also that those who are willing to help others get increased help from God for themselves. What a great gift that is - much needed (for me anyway) and much appreciated.

All of us need help with something - it's just different for each of us.

SS

Georgia:

Sorry. This is the first time I've checked in on you today...very busy, catching up on things around here.

I have had some experience with those types of court cases and I know full well how disillusioning it can be when you learn about the system. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again for your help with my issues with H and sons.

Father's Day was MIRACULOUS and WONDERFUL for my H!!

He tried to play it down that morning, saying something to the effect that Father's Day is not special, thinking he would be ignored by his sons, continuing to feel somewhat bad about his recent history as a father...

Surprisingly for him and ME, both of our sons gave him cards including their own handwritten words expressing their LOVE and APPRECIATION of him. It was real SPECIAL. I thought of you when my H said: "I know that this would not have happened without your influence on them".

What's most miraculous of all is my conversation today with our YS. I was telling him how much his D appreciated the card and...I hope you are sitting down, Georgia...YS said: "That bad stuff that happened in the past doesn't matter that much to me anymore"...OMG..I couldn't believe it...

God definitely had his hand in this...GOD IS GREAT AND GOD IS GOOD...

Thanks for encouraging me not to give up on them, Georgia...and encouraging me to KEEP THE FAITH...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Morning ...

Oh wow..that is wonderful Mimi!! I'm so happy for you! My Father's Day this year was definitely subdued, but I have to keep reminding myself that they are working through their pain the same as me, and it would be rather selfish of me to think it's all about me, me, me. Thank you SS for you encouragement and insight, I really need it right now.

I obviously can't say too much, but I will (out of frustration) say this. One of the chief decision makers in this case (but not the judge) is a personal friend of the father and his family. It was obvious to me that he was trying (and did) influence the outcome in court. Fortunately, this ended up being an extension, we will be back in court in 3 months. Of course....he is not making it known that he is a friend.

There....I've said it...

The following insert was typed (keyboarded?) by me last night at the cottage:

Good evening.-

It is actually kind of nice being away from everything up here. I seem to do my best reflection, thinking, whatever…here in a more isolated environment. This little cottage is wonderful and so peaceful. I sleep better in this bed than I think I have ever slept anywhere….it is just so nice. Tonight after dinner I returned here and soaked in the Jacuzzi for awhile. There are lots of thing on my mind, so I thought I’d try to capture of few thoughts to share with you (would be “ya’ll” if I was at home).

I’m beginning to feel that I can more and more freely begin to examine my own issues and maybe deal with them for my own long term recovery.

There is no doubt that xW’s behavior exhibited all…and I mean ALL…the classic symptoms of an addiction. This book I’m reading, even though specifically directed at women in relationships with sex addicts, is an eerily accurate blueprint of what we went through. But, what I’m trying to focus on is what propensities within me remain that will continue to haunt me.

I have discussed my need for ADMIRATION (which is no doubt way up my list of EN’s). I’m yet to understand the baseline for NORMAL need for ADMIRATION vs. a problematic need that will be rear its head again. I know that I suffer from low self esteem and I’ve known that for years and years. I’ve NEEDED to hear xW praise me.

I’ve also read that men with low self-esteem tend to be overachievers. I suppose this is (subconsciously) a way to feel okay about ourselves. (Mimi….is there any of this that fits H?).

I fear that it is this character flaw in me that led me to make some less than wise choices after the D.

I also struggle with how I will become emotionally independent enough to DEMAND (is that too strong of a word?) of myself what I want in future relationships, not carry over this need to please sort of mentality. When can I get to a healthy “this is what I want’ sort of mentality without fear of how it will be received?

Please allow me to paraphrase some portions of this book dealing with denial. Even though it specifically speaks to sexual addictions, I’m going to paraphrase into “addiction”:

“Denial is powerful. Unfortunately, avoiding pain through denial prevents us from seeing the obvious. It keeps us from identifying the clues the addict may be leaving.

This denial is deadly, not only to the marriage, but to the entire family. If he/se never moves past denial, the partner can have some of the following serious consequences:

It can keep the addict in the most isolated pain he/she can endure: the shaming of his/her activities
It can allow other members of the family to emulate similar addictive life styles without ever being noticed by his/her parents.

It is necessary to struggle and move on through the grief process and acknowledge these painful realities. As long as denial exists, reality does not.

If you are a partner of an addict, and denial has been helping you in your marriage, moving on will be a peeling away process. I find the quicker a partner is willing to take full responsibility for his/her own life, and for the family, the quicker he/she leaves the camp of denial.

Leaving denial is painful and can cost you friends, family relationships, and even a marriage, along with your immediate financial stability. I would encourage you to write in your journal daily (cc?), feel your feelings, and experience the truth of the addiction and the betrayal of your heart. The journal can serve as a reality check when you might want to go back to the comfort of “It’s not really true,” or “It’s not that bad”.

Have the courage to live in reality, no matter how hard it is. Remember, you have a responsibility to yourself and your family to be real and not to pretend. You wouldn’t want to teach your children that, would you?

Denial can keep everyone you love trapped in the chaos of the addiction. Unfortunately, it is usually the partner of the addict to be the first to leave denial. The addict is drunk with fantasy. The partner of the addict is usually the only hero in touch with reality enough to take the first step out of this insanity.

You will want the help of a support group to help you out of denial. At first, you may be the only one in reality, but as you stand fast in it, the reality will increase. This does not guarantee that he/she will come out of his denial.” (pp 81-83)

--Partners: Healing from His Addiction (D. Weisss, PhD; Discovery Press; 2001)

I have some suggestions to throw your way...take them for what they are worth..the page they are written on, but if they speak to you, then...

I think it very important you include in your CASA report the connection between this very important person and the case. Because everything in your report should be based on facts you can give examples of the connection (attended weddings, attends family funcitons, fishing trips, etc.) the judge will infer from that the same as you have. The judge is depending on you to be his eyes and ears, he can't understand all the politics of hte case in the short amount of time he hears it, he (or she) depends on you for that, to give na unbiased account. And in cases like this, where there is an undercurrent of colusion, it is VITAL a CASA is present, for the kids...


And the second peice of advice. Talk to your #1DS and #1DIL together and explain your concerns. Your conflict avoider wants to sit back and is afraid of stepping in and looking like the bad guy. Be VERY honest with them and let them understand that you are concerned for their marital future. Explain that Mom is like and addict, and in being an addict it is VERY important the people around them have firm boundaries set, otherwise they will get sucked into their cruel world...where they take the blame, or accept the addicts view of the world.

It may be hard to convince them you are not trying to turn them away from mom, but are giving them a warning to set some rules about your dealings with them, because an addict will walk all over them...and they will manipulate them and use them very slowly over time. It's especially insidious with a mom and her son because she can guilt him into ANYTHING!

SHMI..

I am soooo glad you are here. I paged you a few days ago trying to get you.

BTW - the person is the chairman of the community review panel.

Including comments in my report is something I hadn't thought of. What I HAD thought of was trying to get a meeting with the judge to make him aware of this relationship.

What do you think of that idea?

BTW - When we left the community resource panel meeting and went into court, we were in court probably less than 1 minute.

Georgia

Getting a meeting with the judge is an OK idea. My experience has been that judges are very busy and they do NOT want to appear as though they are taking sides. Meeting with the judge can be used, but not overused, you know what I mean? You have to weigh if this situation warrants it at this time. Or would it be better to wait until closer to the next trial, or halfway in between.

If you do meet with the judge, what do you hope to have happen, he may ask for your suggestion. Take this biased person off the case? What would keep that person from controlling the situation from afar. It seems unethical they have not made their relationship and possible bias known ahead of time...and that would not stop if they had an associate working the case that they could influence.

I am sorry I wasn't around earlier, I try to read up on what is going on with you, but generally only during the week.

What does the CASA director think? Probably an excellent resource for setting up the meeting and attending with you.

If you do meet with the judge, go with facts, statements this person had made, events they've attended. It would be easy for them to deny (because if it is proven they have an established relationship they COULD get in trouble and they may want to cover their hiney).

Tough case, the kids are worth it. Think about how this would go if you WEREN'T there.

I'm not sure my H has low self-esteem but I do think he learned very early to rely on ADMIRATION as an antidote for BAD/HURT feelings.

He seems almost ADDICTED to ADMIRATION...craves it..and I can see how he could get sucked up by someone who provides an endless supply.

In his A, he learned that a person, like the OW, can't keep the farce going of being able to provide an endless supply and he seems to have learned that this is his DRUG OF CHOICE.

He is attractive,charming and witty..so women are always telling me when we are together...Your H is so funny, doesn't look and act his age and this and that...so what happens when I am not around?

I'm just thankful that he now knows how much of a problem that this is for him...

Of course, I've learned to praise him and I think that's a WIFE'S role, Georgia. I wouldn't want you to think that it's not OK for you to seek ADMIRATION in a relationship. It is an important EN for many men.

Hi Mimi...back to that issue later, I'm kinda focused on this CASA thing right now..and I have marathon meetings starting in 10 minutes..

SHMI...If I went to the judge, it would definitely be to inform him of this relationship, not tell him what I think he should do. However, I would probably tell him I have concerns about impartiality.

CASA director seems to want to kind of take the approach that we do what we do...write our reports..and let the judge decide. I think she may be more CA'er than me in this role.

This man is a retired military officer and well known in local politics. It is obvious he is well trained in knowing how to sway peoples decisions without them realizing it. DFCS and I went into the meeting in agreement on non-reunification....I was amazed at how quickly she crumbled under his direct glare and questions. It turned out to be just me and him....and I could tell he was very, very annoyed that I wouldn't acquiesce. We ended up accepting a 3 month extension.

I've got to have both barrels fully loaded before the next meeting.

The director will be a good guide for knowing the court protocol. Could be a CA'er, or could be she's been called on the carpet for the behavior of CASA's before and doesn't want it to happen again. The judge is KING/QUEEN in their courtroom and will not withstand any shenanigans or muscling around with THEIR power. Perhaps if you were to craft a message, in the form of an interim report or a letter requesting this person be taken off this case because of bias, and ask the judge to question you if not any questions. Like a regular report this should be approved by the director and copies made for ALL parties. This way, if the situation stays the same at least this person's power will be questioned a bit in this case. Yes, you WILL make an enemy of this man, and it MAY undermine your work with other cases. But we are not set up as volunteers to make friends, only to do what we think is in the best interest of the kiddos...as an UNBIASED adult.

Thank you for asking my advice, I feel I have quite a bit to give. Unfortunately I got a VERY bad taste in my mouth after my last case and am NOT happy with the supervisor at DFC about her decisions and railroading. I was going to start working custody cases (actually a relief) but the DFC kept rumoring I had quit, or had hoped I had quit, and I never denied them...got busy, and it's been a couple of years since I touched base with the director.

I called her today and left a message just to let her know I'm alive. I'm a bit too busy these days. BOTH kids are in scouts and I'm active, and I'm working VBS next week too...not much time off. When the kids get older...

FGG,

I am heading off to a meeting, but I wanted to comment on something that SHMI said that I thought very important. He said
I think the approach you should consider BEFORE talking to the kids is that you WANT them to have a long, happy, and healthy relationship with their Mother/MIL. That is very unlikely to happen unless boundaries are put in place. You know exW does not care for DIL. She needs to be protected with knowledge that you have learned from your life and interactions with exW.

This should NOT be a bashing session and clearly SHMI is saying the same thing, but it should be a strategy session where YOU talk to the kids about how best to get along and deal with your exW. The exact way to approach it is something you will have to sort out, but the goal...a long healthy relationship with her, is something that should be very clear to them from the start.

I'll leave you to your more pressing issue right now.

God Bless,

JL

PS: A need for admiration is NOT a bad thing. I think mixing CA with this need may be more of the issue.

Thanks...I will come back and rehash ALL these posts in my mind later.

Georgia

I'm hearing you...

I really believe in the power of journals. You have to be sincere about what you write and what you read. Because when you go back and read you have to accept that what you wrote was what was happening at the time. That's as hard as writing down what you really feel and think.

I believe in journals so much that I have started mine on my computer because I can password protect it and if anything ever happens to me it will not fall into anyone's hands. And all this because I needed to write down some stuff I would never want my daughters to know. Since I'm quite sure they would not have access to it, or anyone else for the matter, (nobody else would be bothered) I feel really free to express myself, and force myself to write down things.

I still miss writing it by hand though.

Hi cc -

I don't remember if I've said this before, so I may be redundant...

Before court, I went back to the old MB thread (Oct, Nov, Dec 2004) and copy/pasted a lot of my posts into Word. I then went in and changed the OM's, etc, to real names and reworded the posts to a "journal-type" format.

I took those into court and read some of them. There was some real quiet moments listening to what I had written over a year earlier, before our separation.

And...it has helped me to remember at times just what it was like at the time. The passage of time seems to fade some of those memories, which is good. But also....when I start questioning my response as being over the top, it helps to remind myself of the past and not just have to rely on my memory.

Georgia

I need to throw this in, Georgia.

Do you think your X's addictive nature was there from the onset of your relationship?

The reason I must ask is because I happen to know that there are emotional and personality changes associated with MS...

You know your X continues to have a place in my heart...

Sorry...