Update.

Nothing is happening. Is this good or bad, I wonder?

I am living with WH and missing H.

WH drove home a "family" friend. First time friend able to speak to WH alone since I exposed A to friend.

Feedback I got from friend? WH acting like an adolescent. Friend in pain at thought of seeing our family breaking up.

Have no idea what WH is thinking/planning. He does know I hurt badly, and is hating himself, but not enough to break off A. I am in the dark if there are any plans between WH and OW. WH keeps talking about how each of us needs to follow his/her "path". I don't see this as a good sign, but am trying hard not to "react".

Hi Luna,

How was your weekend? You mention that "nothing is happening". What is supposed to happen?

I find it predictable that nothing is happening. Nothing is going to happen until YOU or OW force it to happen. The present situation is what WH is choosing, he wants his family and the OW. This is textbook typical.

I really think you need to evaluate YOUR choices Luna. In the end, it is going to be up to you to change your present situation.

I know that you wanted to wait and see how WH will react, but as you said yourself, he is an adoclescent. Can you imagine if a family just sat back and let the teens run the household?

I know every situation is different....but not really that different when dealing with a WS. Look back at your former advice, people were trying to tell you that you can't just wait for him to wake up.

At this point, it has been five months and you guys have not technically started a Plan A. (Decide on a plan of action to repair the couple together, draft NC letter, etc.)

I have an idea. But I wonder how you are and what you think and if you have any ideas first. Let me know.

I will check back this afternoon.

Hang in there! No matter what--YOU will come out of this stronger and happier--I am sure of it.

Hi Ahuman,

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How was your weekend? You mention that "nothing is happening". What is supposed to happen?
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At this point, it's clear to both me and WH (who really also doesn't find situation acceptable as is) that he needs to choose: move out/OW or process of recovery with me (including HIS withdrawal of OW).

I think WH thought my finding out about the A meant the end of M (that the A would always be "there" between us from now on, that he would not be able to "let go" of A, so why bother even try!) and so he was also in somewhat of a shock - things not working as planned. I have been trying to reassure him that it is not "necessarily so", although it would mean a lot of work! Because he has not moved out, I now wonder if WH is finally thinking that working on M may be a "real" possibility also, and this obvioulsy in turn automatically questions his R with OW.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
The present situation is what WH is choosing, he wants his family and the OW. This is textbook typical.
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What WH wanted is that he have an A with OW WITHOUT my finding out - what BS doesn't know won't hurt her: he naively thought he could really do both (not realizing "barrier" created between us even if I didn't find out!, as he actually very soon realized that - because he wasn't feeling well with his plan (too guilty/too involved/I found out). Overall, things did not go as planned, and "spinned out" of HIS control. The fact that I am now aware of A, that he himself cannot live indefinitely in a triangle that is out in the open, his "needing to try to stop feelings of guilt and of being too egotistical, and try to be responsible about it" - he either will attempt to "legitimize" A by moving out, or work on M. It's really not the kind of M we had, nor is he that kind of person. There is no room for an "open" triangle. He hates himself for the hurt caused to everyone involved in this situation, and is really down on himself (should have thought of it before!)

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I know that you wanted to wait and see how WH will react, but as you said yourself, he is an adoclescent. Can you imagine if a family just sat back and let the teens run the household?
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WH knows he has a "delay" (and I really do believe WH also wants to move forward), to think through his choices, but it certainly is not indefinitely. It needs to end, one way or the other, for everybody involved. Remember, WH works with OW at a school. I see as a more "natural" cycle the end of the school year: he either will stay and work on M, or he will move out (without my "blessing" which he had hoped for). I want it to be his decision and not because I "kicked him" out with good reasons to. He has issues of feelings of "not being deserving" and I don't intend to play into it. It's important to me that WH chooses to leave while knowing that I sincerely wish that we "work it out", but cannot do more than that! I don't think things could be made any clearer. I am giving WH as much time as I can because I do think it is a decision not so easily made.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
I have an idea. But I wonder how you are and what you think and if you have any ideas first. Let me know.
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Well, as I said, I plan to do what I think is PLAN A - a time during which BS should expect WH to be in contact with OP - (answering EN as much as I can, avoid LBs, and talk to my neglected "TAKER" who I am asking to be patient a little longer/trying to satisfy it by taking care of myself and reaching out to my friends while WH is in "checked out" mode). The only sign I saw that WH is "weighing" situation and that there may be a "shift in position" is that he suggested inviting his elderly mother to spend sometime with us over the summer! WH is also actually kissing me on the mouth sometimes as opposed to "on the cheeks" as before; (no sex) but definitely more affectionate overall: it had something to do with not giving me "hope"/"leading me on" sort of thing (Yeah, right, it sounded to me more like wanting to keep A "pure - romantic - being loyal, bla, bla"). I really do wonder what OW thinks about WH not having made a "move" yet. Is she prepared to wait it out, too, or she getting frustrated with WH's commitment to family "life"? Remember, she "sacrificed" her M and has been separated for at least 2 months, but then she has only grown children.

At this point, H is basically unhappy with himself, doesn't trust himself nor his decisions, but doesn't want to make a bad situation worse! He feels he has hurt me enough, and doesn't want to risk a yo-yo situation (unless of course he can convince himself of some "real hope" of success for our M). What I think he has basically done is create an "internal" dilemna: on one hand WH has acted very egotistical (adolescent-like) in PA/EA with OW, and hurt a lot of people he cares about while doing it, on the other hand, H is a very "responsible" person and now doesn't want to add to fire.

I really think that WH (considering his "soulmate" feelings for OW and distance between us and having hurt me so), really thought the only thing to do was move out. I wonder if position may have "slightly" changed: I don't think the A is at its "height" as it may have been 3 months ago, I am not giving "my blessing" to his moving out but actually am opened to "working it out", some friends and some people at work knowing about A makes things a bit uncomfortable.

Ahuman, I am curious though about your idea.

I was really pleased to read your post. You sound much more focused on a concrete plan. I am glad to learn you have a timeline in your head--it keeps things in perspective.

If his mother is coming to stay that is WONDERFUL!! And it is a good sign if he is being more affectionate.

I think you are very right about not making the decision quickly, so long as you have a timeline that is what matters INMO. I never thought it would be good to kick him out until you are ready for Plan B.

You asked about me in earlier post. My poor BS has been through so much in the way of "other people involved in his personal life." He has asked me not to talk details about our experience. But to answer you question in a general sense, if we were in a business partnership, instead of a marriage, I would be in prison or in great debt for the things I "took" from the family. I am very greatful my BS stuck through it with me. He is wonderful!@!

As to my idea: it is to plan (or surprise him with) a trip away for two or three days...possibly to work on MB and to work on the friendship between you.

Anyway, what do you think of my idea?

Hello everyone,

"All is quiet on the homefront". WH is too busy to think about doing anything else right now. At these times, my "inner me" finds it too quiet for comfort and is continually wanting me to focus on a possible storm/catastrophe scenario that might follow (I call them the "what ifs"). But, because I then feel I actually contribute to creating my worst fears, I am trying to consciously behave more on a day-to-day basis, that WH will come around and will want to work on M, and focus on "today's" challenges, on taking care of myself, reading the board (which I have to be honest I find it at times discouraging but mostly encouraging. You certainly keep me in touch with reality, and I do learn a lot, find a lot of support - actually, I really don't know how I would have survived otherwise - I certainly don't feel "alone"). I am actually amazed that I have gotten this far, and I am still there!

Ahuman - quote:---------------------------------------
As to my idea: it is to plan (or surprise him with) a trip away for two or three days...possibly to work on MB and to work on the friendship between you.

Anyway, what do you think of my idea?
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I think it's a good idea, and will see where/when I can fit it in.

You see, right now, WH is "committed" to OW, even though he may not have moved out yet, and the way he is trying to be "responsible" towards me is by being honest about how he feels about OW and about not "leading me on" or "giving me hope" about our M by not being too affectionate or by not having sex with me. So, I doubt it that at this point WH is open to a "romantic" get away with me (possibly more with OW!).

As I said, all I have seen signs of is that WH is considering the possibility that maybe our M is not a total loss (but, is he ready to let go of OW? That's the ick!) WH will need to start imagining letting go of the OW, before he can turn to me again.

I am taking it a sign that when WH suggests inviting his elderly mother to stay with us over the summer, because he is at least not planning on how to move out, and is also thinking of "others" and not just himself - but I could be wrong!

I somehow expect WH to continue "testing me". I need to be ready to "think" and "detach" at those times and not just "react" and have LBs rule.

Have a good day everybody.

I'd like your comments.

WH and team, including OW, worked on a student presentation at school which I could consider going to see Wed. night.

Whenever I can, I have always gone to see presentations on which H's worked on.

As you know, WH and H, are not the same. For sure OW will be there. I also know that a lot of people at school know about the A now.

I know in my head I should probably go and "hold my head up high", but right now I don't trust myself to keep my cool. It will be major "triggering time" to be confronted by OW. I worry about LBs.

If I had a real choice, I would not go. I tell myself if you really don't feel like going, don't. On the other hand, I feel I need to stand my ground.

Just thinking about it, I am getting butterflies in my stomach and don't feel I could take it, but I feel being "absent" is not good either.

Is this a time I need to muster enough courage, breath deeply and go?

I probably already know your answers, but to be sure, and also trying to get out of my system all this "emotion" at the thought of seeing (and most likely speaking with OW). I have a really hard time putting up a "front". I know for sure it will be uncomfortable to say the least!

I am glad to know you are all out there.

Bumped for feedback, please and thank you.

Luna - To me, Plan A is one thing, but it seems that putting your WH in a situation where is physically surrounded by two women who want him is about the LAST thing you would want to do with a cake-eater like him.

What kind of message does that send to WH? Answer: That you are coming around and learning to accept his affair.

And aside from that -- what is it going to do to your soul if you are forced to sit and watch him interact with her, knowing what they've done and still do? How much pain and humiliation should you be required to swallow?

This is just my opinion only. You may get other ones here. But me? I couldn't do it. I'd either dissolve into tears of humiliation, or I'd beat the living snot out of him and her. Or maybe I'd do both.
Mulan

Mulan, I thank you.

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Plan A is one thing, but it seems that putting your WH in a situation where is physically surrounded by two women who want him is about the LAST thing you would want to do with a cake-eater like him.

What kind of message does that send to WH? Answer: That you are coming around and learning to accept his affair.
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I agree.

quote:--------------------------------------------------
And aside from that -- what is it going to do to your soul if you are forced to sit and watch him interact with her, knowing what they've done and still do? How much pain and humiliation should you be required to swallow?

This is just my opinion only. You may get other ones here. But me? I couldn't do it. I'd either dissolve into tears of humiliation, or I'd beat the living snot out of him and her. Or maybe I'd do both.
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I am with you 100%. There's a limit to everything!

Maybe you can suggest what I could tell him if he were to ask: keeping in mind state of mind of WH and my needing to avoid LB in PLAN A. Actually, I now think he would be too embarassed to ask - and would be too embarassed to ask why not (although he always enjoys my seeing his work and asking me what I think of it).

For a minute, I just wondered if I was "avoiding" reality by not going, and actually enabling A more. But from what you are telling me, Mulan, I would actually be enabling A even more by going! Forget it! Won't do it!

Unless others have a really convincing point to make to do otherwise, I won't go! I'll stay home and enjoy the kids!

A further worst scenario: is that the "group" would be going out for a drink somewhere afterwards - then I would be faced with two very uncomfortable options: to go with the group -argh! or, go home alone- argh! Bad situation with both options. I will avoid the "drama" and enjoy some peace.

I was really expecting being advised to go - not in your case, Mulan.

I think that you might be advised to go *if* the affair was truly over and your H (not WH) was truly repentant -- but I just cannot see doing this for a WH (not an H).

As I said, others may give you a different response. Bumping this up for more input.
Mulan

Edited to add: If he does ask you to go, just practice some Radical Honesty and tell him you cannot think of anything more painful or humiliating that being forced to sit in the same room -- or at the same restaurant table -- as your husband and his girlfriend, and watch then enjoying each other's company. You did not marry him to be part of a threesome. As long as a threesome is what he wants, you will have NO part of it.

To me, this is all about boundaries. He wants to tear down the boundaries around your marriage and let someone else in. You cannot allow this. But how do you stop it? Not by forcing HIM to stop his actions -- you cannot control what he does -- but by removing YOURSELF from the threesome.

There's no threesome any longer if you pull out of it, is there? *That* is how you enforce a boundary.
Mulan

Mulan: quote-----------------------------------------------
If he does ask you to go, just practice some Radical Honesty and tell him you cannot think of anything more painful or humiliating that being forced to sit in the same room -- or at the same restaurant table -- as your husband and his girlfriend, and watch then enjoying each other's company. You did not marry him to be part of a threesome. As long as a threesome is what he wants, you will have NO part of it.
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Mulan, I suspect WH's answer to go somewhat like: you are right, I don't want to part of a threesome either, which is why I want us to separate!

Also, because I am used to always going to see things he is involved in when I can, by purposely not going: will it be a big LB? Will it be interpreted as a 'punishment'? Am I giving A more 'power'?

I wonder.


quote:---------------------------------------------------
To me, this is all about boundaries. He wants to tear down the boundaries around your marriage and let someone else in. You cannot allow this. But how do you stop it? Not by forcing HIM to stop his actions -- you cannot control what he does -- but by removing YOURSELF from the threesome.

There's no threesome any longer if you pull out of it, is there? *That* is how you enforce a boundary.
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I just wondered if by my 'absence' I am further giving away my 'place' to OW. But definitely it would be very very uncomfortable, to say the least!

Can I be honest by saying: I would really really like to see his work, but do feel it would be very very uncomfortable for me given the circumstances.

I am really not sure what to do.

Bumping up for comments. The event is tonight.

In PLAN A, how counter-intuitive do you have to be? If I wanted to protect me, I would not go (but would this be my Taker talking to me?)

I now wonder, would there be any benefit in my going to the event (and needing to face OW?)

I don't know Luna. I see what Mulan is saying, and they are valid points.

Just for decision sake, I will list pro's for going. Ultimately, it is up to you obviously, but at least this way you have considered both sides and can better make a decision.

Pro's for going....

You are remaining consistent in your actions that you want to be his partner.

You are demonstrating to school and OW that you are still together. (This is important, in that, others will have a harder time accepting the A.) Believe me, OW will be caused to pause when she sees you--it will put the pressure on their "relationship" and possibly push the issue for her.

You will have the opportunity to make bonds on her territory--believe me--she will feel the pressure when people see you, suddenly an A becomes less of a gossip story and more of a sick situation when you meet the victims. I was always reminded of what a complete [censored] I was if I saw the OMBS. It ALWAYS caused rifts for both OM and me.

Going makes the A real to everyone. This is a good thing, though painful.

Some questions, though:

Can you bring your kids?

Can you express to your WH that you would like to go, but that you will need a bit of reassurance from him...I know he will probably be busy during the show, but will he be able to be with you at all? Can you sit with him for example or will he be back stage?

Make it a FAMILY thing if possible. It makes it less confrontational for you and WH--and it is an arena where OW can't compete!

Can you go out for ice cream as a family afterwards???

As to your needs, I wonder if it is good to some extent for you to face her. It is good for her to have to see you as a real person, not just the person she hears about from WH.

Making a scene or losing it "crying" in public at your WH work is obviously not a productive thing, so if you feel you can't keep it together, then I would say not to go. THAT SAID, you could always meet WH after the event and go out for drinks or ice cream afterwards...this way you would still be able to share about the event with him--he can tell you about it...but still protect yourself if need be.

I think the WORST thing would be for him to go and have you just staying home and not participating or sharing in the event at all.

I don't think you are accepting the A by going, btw....or at least not anymore than you are accepting it by still living with WH.

Finally, what is all of this stuff about him saying he is leading you on if he is affectionate??? CALL HIS BLUFF!

Ahuman: quote------------------------------------------
I see what Mulan is saying, and they are valid points.
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They are - but WH may see it as "punishment" and a way of justifying his A.

quote:------------------------------------------
You are remaining consistent in your actions that you want to be his partner.

You are demonstrating to school and OW that you are still together. (This is important, in that, others will have a harder time accepting the A.) Believe me, OW will be caused to pause when she sees you--it will put the pressure on their "relationship" and possibly push the issue for her.

You will have the opportunity to make bonds on her territory--believe me--she will feel the pressure when people see you, suddenly an A becomes less of a gossip story and more of a sick situation when you meet the victims. I was always reminded of what a complete [censored] I was if I saw the OMBS. It ALWAYS caused rifts for both OM and me.

Going makes the A real to everyone. This is a good thing, though painful.
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These would also be the reasons for my considering going - even if it would be very painful.


quote:----------------------------------------------------
Can you bring your kids?
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I could consider going with one of the boys. The worst scenario though would be that WH goes off with group for a drink to discuss presentation, and I go back home with kid - or worse, be offered to join group for drink (this for sure I would not be able to).
To see presentation, yes. To join group for drink?? that seems to hit my limit right now.

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Can you express to your WH that you would like to go, but that you will need a bit of reassurance from him...
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Remember, its not H. I am dealing with WH.


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As to your needs, I wonder if it is good to some extent for you to face her. It is good for her to have to see you as a real person, not just the person she hears about from WH.
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If I could pull it off, that would be another reason for going.

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Making a scene or losing it "crying" in public at your WH work is obviously not a productive thing, so if you feel you can't keep it together, then I would say not to go.
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I don't think I would make a scene, but, boy, would it hurt!


quote:-----------------------------------------------------
THAT SAID, you could always meet WH after the event and go out for drinks or ice cream afterwards...this way you would still be able to share about the event with him--he can tell you about it...but still protect yourself if need be.

I think the WORST thing would be for him to go and have you just staying home and not participating or sharing in the event at all.
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Actually, the event happens over two evenings. Last night I was not able to go (had to go somewhere else), and the group went "out for a drink" afterwards. I was the first to get back home, and it was hard waiting for WH to come home, but he finally did. This morning, he got up early, I needed to check something with him, but ended up talking about how the presentation had been, how he felt, etc. etc. the whole time. There was a lot of "sharing" about it.


quote:----------------------------------------------------
Finally, what is all of this stuff about him saying he is leading you on if he is affectionate??? CALL HIS BLUFF!
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You're right Ahuman, when I think about it, "leading you on" doesn't hold. I think it's WH's way of being "romantic and true" to OW? I think it could be his way of punishing me, or he is very UNCOMFORTABLE having sex with me and OW at the same time, now that I know about OW - but when I didn't know it was fine! - argh - what logic!

For now: I feel most comfortable with being honest: that I would really want to see presentation, but that "under the circumstances" I did not feel comfortable about going, especially if afterwards there is a good possibility for group to go for a drink, and I would be left with choice of coming home alone or go out for drinks with OW there! - this would be toooooooo much. Anyway, I have gone often to these "out for a drink" after a show. It is really a time for reviewing, getting feedback, make comments, about event between those involved. It is actually the least threatening - it's the presence of the OW (my reaction to being in the same room) that is the big unknown here.

As I said: if I think of myself - I definitely would not go. If I think of what I need to - I do consider it.

What do you think of this?

Before making my decision to go or not to go, what if I ask WH if he intended to "go out for drinks" after presentation (like previous night). If he says either "don't know" or "maybe" - I won't go. If he says that he intends not to go, then I would consider going.

Clearly, my going would be linked to whether or not he intended to "go out for drinks" afterwards, and not my not wanting to see presentation.

This is so sad when you think about it. You didn't do anything wrong and yet you are the one to suffer and be worried.

Okay, I correct my "worst scenario" stated above. The worst would be for you to go and then WH to go out after without you.

IMHO, if you are going it is mostly to show to OW and rest of group that you are there...and to make WH have to face these people with you at his side.

Are you sure OW would still go to drinks if she knew you were going?

I think we are posting at the same time. I agree with you. If you go---go all the way.

Why not ask WH if he can go out with YOU and the BOYS afterwards??

Thanks for your thoughts, Ahuman.

I am on my own now.