New to MB. Where do I begin?? Yes already I have made some enemies here because I am the WH. It started about three years ago when I met an old High School sweetheart. I know it sounds very familiar. I have been married for thirty two years this last January. I have four kids grown and married. At the time of first meeting the OW I would say my marriage was just OK. There was nothing horrible about it but nothing great either. We were starting the empty nest and the usual what do we do now? The OW is married (25 years) with two grown children. We ask ourselves how in the world did we get here, never in our wildest dreams did we think either of us would ever have an affair. It's more than an emotional affair but not quite a physical one, (no sex..one of her coping mechanisms).
We see each other about once a month for only one day at a time. Talk once a week and email several times a day. We both feel tremendous guilt, although I think it is harder on her than me. The hardest thing to deal with at this point is I have NO feelings for my wife. WE have drifted so far apart, have very little we enjoy together, and while we are both Christians and share the same set of values she is far stronger and more entrenched in the Christian Life than am I. We have gone through the Emotional needs questionnaire and have very different emotional needs which neither of us are doing a good job at meeting. The love bank is running on empty for sure. I have no desire to go anywhere or do anything with her and of course am not interested in sex and romance. Going into the fourth year, I have a hard time believing this is still fog. I deeply love the OW, and desire to spend the rest of my life making her the happiest woman in the world. I know I should be doing that with my wife but I have no desire to do so. I have been seeing a marriage and Family therapist for the last year to try to gain insight. I can see my life in the future without my wife but I cannot see it without the OW. When I get to the end, I think I will look back and regret what could have been rather than the fact that I got a divorce. The OW has not made any commitment that she would end her marriage so I realize it is not entirely my decision. We do talk about it a lot. Her biggest struggle seems to be her kids and not wanting to hurt them.
My wife is really a good person, very devoted to the marriage, has tried hard to make the marriage work. I feel for much of the last thirty years I have lived a life trying to be the person she wanted me to be…I have put aside much of my own beliefs, desires, and goals in order to do that which I think she wanted. Now after being involved with the OW I have for the first time allowed my real self to come out. The OW accepts me for who I am not who she wants me to be. We have very similar values, are very compatible, and I enjoy being with her beyond what I have ever experienced. I have read with interest many of the posts on being in love VS love as a commitment or action. I understand the concept, but I have no desire to even be with my wife little alone love her. I believe somehow, someway that desire could come back, I know it could not begin to happen without NC with the OW and I’m just not willing to do that. Yet I get this scarry feeling inside if I ever went the divorce route I would wake up some day and say Oh my God what have I done? I love the OW deeper than I can ever remember loving my spouce. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and could care less if I ever saw my wife again. I know that sounds horrible and it is not a good place to be. I know there must be an answer.

I'm sure I have kind of opened a Pandora’s Box here on MB but would love to hear your input and advice regardless of what it is.
Thanks for listening. I have gained so much from lurking on MB for the last year.

Hi Seeking?

This is no Pandora's Box. We are used to it around here by now.

I was in your exact same situation. I was the OW and for way longer than 4 years. It was long and complicated. I wanted to end my marriage and we talked about it, but I didn't. I don't think OM or I either one really could have.

Your OW is not going to end hers either.

Of course your wife has stronger religious values right now. Your lifestyle makes that impossible.

I didn't like my husband at all...could not stand to be around him.

I don't think you will find any insight in counseling until you have ended the affair and gotten over your withdrawal. Yes, even after 4 years it can be fog.

You cannot live your life like this indefinitely. It is exhausting and will take its toll on you. Not to mention, it will all hit the fan one day.

I wanted my life back. I now have my life back, my integrity back, my self respect and my husband that not only do I love being around...I adore him!

You can have this too.

Susan

Seeking....just what are you seeking?

Like Susan said, you sound like so many others we've seen over the years...have you read Surviving An Affair?

If you're wanting to get educated - it's a great place to start

First of all.... welcome to MB. You are certainly not the only WS around here. I believe the journey of a WS here is extremely valuable and appreciate your willingness to come forward.

It seems like you're fairly familiar with the concepts here so I just wanted to ask you a few questions. I am a BS and want to say right off that these are only meant to maybe help you while helping others too.

1. What do you think about the idea that your feelings for the OW are amplified by fantasy of a life with her rather than the reality of what it would be? Seeing a person once a month for a day seems to me, as an outsider, to set the stage for those early relationship excitement type feelings. Even factoring in the talks on the phone and email communication, the simple excitement and anticipation for seeing each other under secret and forbidden circumstances might fuel the fantasy of the relationship.

2. If you were to cut off contact with the OW (which I know you can't imagine right now) and devote the time you spend thinking about, emailing, talking to and visiting with the OW, do you wonder if you MIGHT be able to move forward in your marriage?

3. After my WH and I sat down to tell our kids we were getting a divorce, he said something I will never forget. HE told me that it was the first time he wondered if he was doing the wrong thing. I asked why and he told me, "Because even though I could picture us divorced in the future and imagine the kids a year or two down the road, I never saw the crap that had to come between then and now. I could never see their faces like I did today."

I am getting a divorce now. He ended up stopping his divorce petition because he didn't want to ruin the family. He didn't want to totally lose me either. But he continued his affair and continued the hurtful actions towards our family. I filed three months after he withdrew his petition. Right now, he is trying to say all the right things to stop the divorce. He's not walking the walk though. We will be divorced as of April 22rd. By my choice now.

He never saw this either when he imagined his future, down the road, with OW. He thought he could never want anything more than her. Now, as he looks at me and his kids and the life he lost, it's not such a clear picture because of what you have to live through to get to that end.

Have you thought about each step? Have you really and truly looked at not only the consequences to your wife and your children, but to the OW, her family and you? You are probably right to question what you will think should you leave your family. That is something that you will live with forever. I'm not saying you won't be able to, but from personal experience, you may want to reflect very hard on each and every step it takes to get to that vision of you with OW. Have you?

Ok. I'm wordy. I know. Sorry. Please understand I am not attacking you or condesending to you with these questions. I am really interested in the answer if your comfortable giving them. If not, just think about them.

Thank you Susan for your reply. It's the kind of stuff I need to hear. I guess I'm seeking if the love will ever come back for my wife and if it is worth loosing everything that I feel I have with the OW. Even if the love is there again with my wife, we are so different and enjoy things that are so different I don't see how we will ever be happy with each other again. I will always wonder what it "could" have been like with the OW. Now that the toothpaste has been squeezed out of the tube so to speak there is no way to get it back in. This A has changed me and I am a different person. I have been having a problem with posting I'll try this and see if it works.....

Seeking, consider this...

1 counseling appointment with Steve Harley. I think with just one phone call he can give you the answers you're looking for. While reading your posts - I kept thinking - great questions, and there's none better to answer them than SH!

He's great with WSs. Very non-judgmental - you'll be amazed at what he understands, and no one puts things better than he does. He'll give you much to think about regardless of what you decide to do.

You don't even have to tell your wife or your OW that you've made the call. I know he'll have information that will help all 3 of you.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Steve was the one person that WH felt understood and really made him think.

Excellent advice, Lucky12!!!

Well, I felt the same way, but in truth it made it easier to justify my affair. My husband and I were different. For a while all we shared was a son, but we worked to have things in common and enjoy each other again. After all, I married him to begin with, so there was something there.

As far as always wondering what it would have been like with the OW, one day you won't even think about that.

But believe me, it would not be good. Relationships built on lies have a faulty foundation.

Susan

Thank you for the post. I already answered this once but lost it when I went to post, it sighned me out. I'll try again.

1. Yes I have thought long and hard about the fantasy part of this and the fact we aren't living a real life together. I wonder how it would be different. Yet we have seen each other live through many different things, death of loved ones, illness ETC and have seen how we respond. Also I have looked closely at how whe spends her time, what's imnportant to her, what her values are and those are all the things that attracts me to her.

2. I know there can be no improvement in my marriage as long as the OW is in the picture. If I devoted the time and energy to my wife that I do to the OW I know there would be improvement. Either I'm to weak or not motivated enough to do that. Before getting married I was in love with this OW and my wife to be, at the same time. I'm the one who left the OW back then and for thirty years plus have wondered what it would have been?? I just can't seem to walk away from her again.

3. I have thought through every step in detail and cannot imagine how horrible it would be not only for my wife and children but also for the family of the OW. I think how selfish can I be????? Yet I'm still here in the midst of it and not willing to take the step of NC.

I hope this reply goes through and I will try to respond to the other posts as well. Thank you all..

I want to believe that someday I wouldn't even think about the OW but for so many years I have been thinking of her. Long before we ever made contact with each other. She was in dreams I would have and thoughts I would have of seeing her. Sometimes I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. I guess we can thank Classmates.com for making it easier.
I like your comment about relationships built on lies have a fualty foundation. A lot of wisdom there..Thanks.

I would like to add... have you considered how badly this will hurt your wife? Really? I doubt it.

Is it possible that you have projected your own level of detachment from your M onto your wife, and, based on that, assumed it might not be so bad, dumping her for the OW? That would be wrong. It will be bad. So bad. Your detachment has been produced by romantic feelings. Your W has had no such experience. Your W is more than likely extremely attached to you, as is the case with any marriage as long as yours. If you leave her, don't be mistaken - she will suffer tremendously. I wish there was a way to explain how much it hurts to be left for another after a long marriage. I just can't figure out a way to do it. It's worse than most anything you can think of.

Some of us believe that the happiness we achieve by being decent and kind and compassionate, and by being true to our promises, honest in our principles, and loyal to the people we love, is more valuable than any kind of pleasure we might receive from any external source - animal, vegetable, or mineral. I know that this is true.

If you end this nonsense, and if you ever find yourself wondering what you missed out on by not pursuing your dead-end affair (and make no mistake, it's a dead end), just remember what OW is willing to do to your wife.

GC

Thank you for your suggestion in calling Steve Harley. I will consider this. I know from lurking here for so long the kind of wisdom he has. Thanks.

I would also like to add that the reason this is still a fantasy for you and fogland is becuase you two dont share the same things as you and your wife do...bills, debt, house, cars, kids, colds, vacations as families, family gatherings, the snotty noses growing up, the diaper changes...those are ALL REALL things...seeing someone once a month or week is NOT that!

I am in the middle of a divorce and although I do not want the divorce, I do not see my H ever being the man he needs to be...He has a child from his affair and although I have said I would accept the child with open arms...he is still sneaking behind my back...then asks for a reconciliation or if I can stop the divorce! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My point is...you cannot live this life forever...you must choose...and chosing your wife is the right choice in the matter..she has stood by you for all the good and bad....Maybe you ahve forgotten all the good times, as most WS's do forget...i am sure they are there if you dig deep!

good luck to you!

I have thought about how much it will hurt my wife a lot. I don't think though having never been there I can imagine the depth of the hurt. From everything I have read here it sounds worse than death. I know it would be far easier on my wife if I were to die then to tell her I was leaving. I just can't even imagine. When I project myself in the future if I were to go the D route I think about how could I do this to her?? I sometimes try to rationalize and say she would be happier with someone else, someone more like her but I know this is just rationalizing, trying to make it easier for me to do what I'm doing. For my hole life I have always thought those who had affairs were the most selfish self centered people and why can't they see what they are doing, and that the newness of the OW will wear off ETC. Through some very bad decisions on my part I now find myself there and can't believe it. Yet the relationship I have with the OW is so strong, so powerful, and the relationship I have with my wife is so weak, that I can't bring myself to have NC with the OW. Yet when I read your post
"Some of us believe that the happiness we achieve by being decent and kind and compassionate, and by being true to our promises, honest in our principles, and loyal to the people we love, is more valuable than any kind of pleasure we might receive from any external source - animal, vegetable, or mineral. I know that this is true." I know you are right, I know life is not all about me and seeking pleasure ETC. Yet I long so much for the kind of relationship I have with the OW, and I just can't see that ever happening with my wife...You have given me lots to think about though. Thank you.

Seeking,

I don't have time to post a long response to you, but I found this thread very interesting. You seem to be saying the exact same things that my H said to me about why he wanted to end our M & continue to see his OW.

I'll try to write more later if the site lets me (lol) & depending what time I get home from Bible Study. In the meantime, I will be praying that you can receive some wisdom from the good folks here at MB.

God bless,
Y

Thank you for your post and input. I know this is really hard to get the posts to go through. I have to keep loging in and out and hitting the back browswer to make this work. Thanks for the patience in posting to me. Also thank you for your prayers. My prayer life has really changed as I have gone through this cause it is hard to be close to God when your in the middle of sin...

Seeking, our brains are very good at adapting to our circumstances. You are having an affair. You feel tremendously guilty about it, but the feelings you get from contact with the OW are so positive, and so strong. Your brain adapts to your dependency on those feelings by demotivating you toward any effort that will deprive you of those feelings.

The point is, things with your W could be better, but not as long as you're lying to her and cheating on her. The problem might seem to be her, or it might seem to be just nature - the two of you are just different in certain fundamental ways.

But the real problem is you.

You have to view your wife and your marriage negatively, because to do otherwise would motivate you to give up your drug of choice.

I don't mean to trivialize your life. I realize you've been thinking about OW your entire adult life. I'd guess that she has remained, for you, a symbol of everything you might have had in your life, everything you have given up, everything that might have been different.

But I think you know, the only reason she remains so perfect in your heart is because she has been distant. Being married to her would not suddenly cause you to feel you've won the lottery and had nothing to regret because you had given yourself the one thing you always wanted. It would make you feel that way until your affair started to turn humdrum. Then you'd just feel awful all the time.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you might find you get what you need.

GC

***I guess I'm seeking if the love will ever come back for my wife and if it is worth loosing everything that I feel I have with the OW.***

You will never know if the love will ever come back for your wife -- not as long as you are still seeing your girlfriend.

It's like constantly stuffing your face with pie and then thinking, "Well, gee . . . I guess I don't like steak anymore . . . for some reason, I'm just never hungry . . . "

Mulan

Mulan, brilliant! So true. I'm using that! It's going in the lexicon riiiight now.

GC

Mulan I know you are right. There is no way to know what could or couldn't be there in my marriage if I'm still having contact with OW. I think in addition to the love I have for the OW it's what I don't have in my marriage and how my wife has a hard time accepting me for who I really am. She is always trying to change me into what she wants me to be. Incidentally I loved your analogy of the pie and the steak..Makes one think.