Well, I was hoping to give Dylan the opportunity to come clean here before I posted. I told her as much yesterday and she has started working on a post, but from the looks of things, this could be many days in the writing. And, knowing Dylan's pattern, if I try to hold off on posting till she does, I could be waiting a very very long time.

This is unacceptable. I'm in major crisis mode and need help, support, advice and maybe a hint of sympathy.

The whole thing happened while MB was down (of course) and I've been posting over at SYMC. Great site, but not much 'action' and to tell the truth I'm in great pain, great confusion and feeling quite impatient. I need some friends to help me through this.

Here's the link to my D-Day#2 SYMC thread

The summary: This weekend I found an email account with love letters from OP. The latest was less than a week ago. Not only are they in contact, but they have been intimate.

I hate to whine, but I could really use some support through this... I'm hurting, confused and feel like once again I'm facing a disaster that has no possible good outcome. Once again? Did I say that? Sorry, I meant 'still'.

This is all just way too much.

dewt

Hey dewt, I'm here!! I haven't yet read your thread yet, I will as soon as I am done here. just want you to know that I'm am here for you, don't know what advise I could possibly give but I am a good sounding board. ok, I'm going to read your thread now. take heart in knowing people do care about what is going on in your life, chin up!!
-Jamie-

(((((((((dewt))))))))))))) It so hard when they keep betraying us again and again. It never gets easier. D-Day #1 was hard enough. I'll read your link when I get everybody off to school.

I just typed a whole response. But this board is clearly not fully functional yet and I lost the whole thing.

I swear to God I'm going to scream. My computer is right next to a window and the twain have just come extremely close to meeting.

The gist of my reply, which I will NOT try to repost is that yes, this sucks. Dday 2 is about 100 times worse than DDay 1.

I've been played for such a fool. Wasted my time. Suffered unnecessarily. Betrayed beyond my worst nightmares at the worse possible time.

I'm ready to die now. Won't commit suicide, but wouldn't step out of the way of a Mac truck either.

Stupid boards. I can't handle anymore frustration. Sooo ready to just snap.

John

Dewt, I had about 3 d days at the beginning. One where I found a text message on the phone. (He talked me out of it) Then found her at my house (He talked me out of it again, due to the fact they were working on a project together) Convinced me twice. But on Mother's day, I found explicit e mails with proof. That's when I hired a PI. That was almost a year ago now. Each d day I died a little more inside. But I decided to take action, instead of giving in to it. I don't know your whole story, but perhaps you need to consider a plan of action. I did, and although it took a long time, his A is finally over, I think, although total No Contact has not happened yet. However, it is dying a slow painful death. It is dying because of my plan A and plan B. I believe that we will recover from this. But if that happens, it will be because I made a plan, worked the plan, and had lots of patience. Don't give up. It is sometimes discouraging to watch other people on here who have success faster than the rest of us. But it's the turtle that wins the race sometimes. I intend to win the race, eventually. Don't give up.

Dewt
Boy you have a complicated story. It took a good long time for your lives to get THAT messy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Maybe some objectivity will help.

Raising up from the details of your sitch, you have an active WS without any sign of NC commitment.

MB says there are several things you can do to help end the affair.

Plan A ? Maybe too late for that owing to the time you have spent in trouble.

Plan B ? To prevent you from wholly losing love for Dylan, and to show her what she will miss.

Plan 'dewt' ain't working today mate.

maybe a session with steve harley would help set a plan in motion?

all blessings mate. This stuff's hard.

{{{dewt}}}

At the risk of being harsh I *feel* that you cannot have a marriage with a lesbian. I really feel that she is either a lesbian...or at the very least bi-sexual...and that she will always be looking for the type of love that she can get from another female. You clearly don't fit that bill.

So, the thing is...what do YOU need to do. I think that you have the answer...you just don't care for it.

Hope you decide to jump off the coaster soon...for your sake and for your child.

JMHO
committed

Dewt,

If I had an inkling that my FWS was still in contact that would be the clincher.

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, I am F&@*ing out of here!!!

LIFE IS TOO SHORT.

K

Starz, I can't give up. I soooo want to, but I made vows before God to the woman I love (who is still in there somewhere). And if those vows weren't enough, I have a child who is depending on me to honor those vows. I just can't give up. I am very seriously prepared to die trying.

I applaud your tenacity. I hope that at the end of this, every one (especially Dylan) will be applauding mine.

Bob. I'm really glad that you dropped in. I have followed your story from the beginning and I want you to know that you have my complete respect and admiration.

My story is incredibly complicated. My best friend thinks I should write a book about it. He went on, "But you'll have to change bits so that people would believe it."

I don't expect instantaneous change. I know full well how deep our issues run and know full well that even with 100% dedication by BOTH parties recovery would be long and difficult and would not even then be guaranteed. (Although if this were to happen, guarantee or no I'd put all my money on 'happily ever after'.)

I'm following the rules for ending the affair as best I can. If follow the link above to symc, I posted my exposure letter and the fallout follow up.

Plan A? Well, I've been really honestly trying, for the last 5-6 months to 'exhibit good marital behaviour' and also have been really trying to get my own personal act together. I haven't been putting pressure on her and honestly think that I've done a pretty good Plan A.

But in effect the end result of this is that I have a clean concience. Nothing more, nothing less. Dylan has been having an affair all this time and this has most definitely affected her perception. The subtle judgemental tone that pervades all her attitudes has not abated. Not that I'm perfect... to be sure that she could come up with a few complaints, but the good things that I've done have gone unnoticed. The ENs of hers that I've been trying to meet have proven fruitless. She's never 'let me in' and so Plan A has really not been all that fruitful.

I understand that Plan A has the added effect of leaving a good impression when one goes to Plan B. But I have HUGE issues with Plan B (detailed in my other thread) and I think if we go there it will be the end. And not only will it be the end, but it will be a messy end.

The only 'Plan Dewt' that there is at this point is a rough draft of some 'boundries' or 'conditions of her not getting Plan B'ed. I know that the punctuation is off there, but I don't want to call it Plan Bed, cause that'll just make me more depressed. This is list is actually posted over at symc on my thread as well, and I will probably bring it over here when the glitches are worked out and posting is not such a frustrating thing.

A session with the Harleys would be great but you gotta pay for that kind of thing.

Committed, well if she actually is a lesbian then that would change absolutely everything. As for bi-sexual, well, vows are vows. Dylan is a brunette. If I really liked blonds too, would I be justified in looking for that kind of love? Faithful is faithful, cheating is cheating.

I'm doing what I need to do. It's just that disasters keep happening and no matter what I do, they just keep happening.

My bank account has been seized. It has since been released, but the paperwork is not cleared yet. I've been working on paying off my overdraft to at least get it to zero. I just found out today that sympatico and my car insurance have been trying to ram through payments despite calls I made months ago to both the bank and the companies and when I went in today to make what I thought was my last payment, I found that not only is my account still frozen but I'm looking at another $200 nsf fees.

And this took time, and the school just called and I have to go get my son.

So ask me how much work I got done today.

I lost my last contract because of stuff like this. Cost me close to $3000. Which I really needed. Actually cost me more because I invested money in tools I needed to do the job. Anybody wanna buy a tile cutter and a hammer drill?

I came home today, fully intending to write a will and a note and go for a walk in the woods.

But then the principal of the school tells me that my son worships me and she's really glad I'm coming to get him. (problem day).

Dang.

There's just no way out of this. I can't even kill myself.

dewt

Hey dewt. Sooooo sorry this is happening again for you. My dday #3 is just 1 1/2 weeks old. dday #2 was not nice but not as bad for me as #1 but #3 really, really was bad for me.

I also made my vows before the universe. The one thing I keep coming back to is that it is not over until my spouse has pushed through a D and has moved out.

So it isn't over till your spouse decides that it is over!!!

I hear ya bro and I feel for ya. Tis a hard lot we BS have chosen. There is a lesson in there some where, might not be recognizable for months or longer in the future.

I do know that after dday #3 my EL is finally changing her views about me and our marriage and her OP. The change is noticible but not yet fully where I would like it to be.

The WS has to have some kind of change at some point. I just hope for you and your family it comes soon and is right for your family.

My prayers are with ya bro. Hang in there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There is a way out. Just takes time. You WILL make it to the other side and you will find the peace you and your family deserve.

{{{{dewt}}}} in a manly sorta way

dewt..
I read you other site post...

ugggh..

I am glad you have some insight in to having some answers....

the big question is what is did does dylan say about all of this...
and then lets go from there...

but get your helmit on cause i'm gonna wack you for the old...

I have a problem with plan B whine....dewt..you got other problems than your 'problem' with plan b..

ARKIE

Might be time to ask the lesbian question then.

And...I know that vows are vows. Comparing bi-sexuality to hair color preference is comparing apples to oranges, imho.

I happen to think that you can't battle sexual issues that belong to someone else. Some people are driven by these sexual urges that cannot be filled by one person...these are the people that have no business being married.

Just remember...this is simply my humble opinion.

committed

I agree 100% with committedandlovingit on this one. If your wife is having a full-blown romantic relationship with another woman, then your wife is a lesbian -- at the very least, she is bi-sexual.

There is nothing on earth you can do to change this. And you've got to remember that her sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with you.

I have seen women here on these boards who were frantic and devastated because their husbands were having sex with other men. No amount of Plan A or Plan B or Plan C or even Plan D is going to do one thing to change someone's sexual orientation.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but your wife may be truly incapable of being the kind of partner you want -- and that it NOT your fault. You may have to begin looking at it from this angle. Good luck.
Mulan

Hey dewt. Sooooo sorry this is happening again for you. My dday #3 is just 1 1/2 weeks old. dday #2 was not nice but not as bad for me as #1 but #3 really, really was bad for me.

#3... Ugh.... What a nightmare...

{{{{greergan}}}} (very manly, brotherly, even. Monstertrucks, powertools, Duct-tape.)

I also made my vows before the universe. The one thing I keep coming back to is that it is not over until my spouse has pushed through a D and has moved out.

So it isn't over till your spouse decides that it is over!!!

That's what I'm pretty much my thinking. I'm all over the place sometimes, but this is the bottom line I keep coming back to.

I hear ya bro and I feel for ya. Tis a hard lot we BS have chosen. There is a lesson in there some where, might not be recognizable for months or longer in the future.

Lots of lessons in there, my friend. First and foremost is the one you just pointed out... we have chosen.

We have chosen and because of that we are not victims. When trials come and we choose to act according to what we know is right we are exercising great personal power. And the worse those trials get, the tougher we become but because we keep choosing to take the next step, we are already victorious.

I dunno if that was really wise or the biggest crock. But there ya go.

The WS has to have some kind of change at some point. I just hope for you and your family it comes soon and is right for your family.

It is debatable who between us is in more dire need of personal change. Even our son has some significant challenges ahead of him. I cannot claim my WW is soley responsible for all this. Not by a long shot. But change is coming... of that you can be sure. Because what is/has been going on is entirely unacceptable and cannot continue. Dylan and I are in complete agreement on that.

The question now is what kind of change. I'm going to open up a thread on this topic and hopefully Dylan will join in.

I'm glad things seem to be improving for you. I will definitely keep you in my prayers.

Ark,

Good ta see ya... you know I have great respect for you. Please this time leave your 2x4s behind. Constructive crits I can take, advice and help with a plan... I'd pay for it if I could. But beats I need not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I have big problems with Plan B. And I have to admit my views are fairly firm on the subject. However, I'm not closed to discussion on the matter. I WILL go to Plan B if there is really no other option. There is a bottom line and it is very, very nigh. But I will explore one last minute effort to initiate sweeping change before taking that step. Not here though... that's another thread.

I am glad you have some insight in to having some answers....

And they said I'd never 'get it'. :rolleyes: sheesh.

the big question is what is did does dylan say about all of this...
and then lets go from there...

Well that's the thing, isn't it? She is in agreement that this cannot continue as it has been. We've agreed that a cooling off period is a good idea, and she is ready to discuss issues with me. I'm going to start a thread to that effect.

I can see how bad she feels about this. I can relate. What I'm unsure of is which side of the fence the horrible pain of the WS will push her.

committed, you wrote:

Might be time to ask the lesbian question then.

She does not have the answer.And while I personally can't understand this whole thing, it's really busting her up. I really think the sexuality issue is mixed up with the Fog right now and can't be addressed effectively.

And...I know that vows are vows. Comparing bi-sexuality to hair color preference is comparing apples to oranges, imho.

Exactly. And if you are married to an apple, you don't go peeling oranges. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I happen to think that you can't battle sexual issues that belong to someone else. Some people are driven by these sexual urges that cannot be filled by one person...these are the people that have no business being married.

I'm really not trying to battle any sexual issues. Honestly. To me it's simple simple simple. If she's really truly Gay, then she has no business in a committed relationship with me, and I would gracefully withdraw. Apart from that, well sexual urges are sexual urges. I'm one of those people who are really driven by them too. It's caused a heckuva lot of destruction in my life. And I still get them, all the time, but I've learned to manage them so that I can live with myself, cause I also have morals. And I have every business being married. I am a husband with a wife and a child. I have a moral obligation to both of them to be married and do my best to stay married. It's not just my business, it's one of my primary responsibilities.

As for one person satisfying all of anothers sexual needs... who the heck has that? I have yet to meet a woman who would fill ALL my appetites. I don't think she exists and if she did, I'd probably run for the hills. But I do get your point. If Dylan felt that she could not live without having a girlfriend, then marriage with me would not be an option.

Just remember...this is simply my humble opinion.

It is actually quite difficult to offend me. Please understand that these are questions I deal with all the time in my head and it does me a lot of good to face them here, in writing. I appreciate your input a great deal.

Mulan You wrote:

I know it's not what you want to hear, but your wife may be truly incapable of being the kind of partner you want -- and that it NOT your fault. You may have to begin looking at it from this angle. Good luck.

I have no problem discussing this. I am certainly not prepared to run from any topic, though some I'm ready to put up a good fight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If she's gay, she's gay. Her homosexual behaviour began out of the blue, and followed a period of withdrawal from me. Her partner voiced many of the same complaints that I did regarding Dylans sexual appetite. During the times that we have been intimate since this all started, she's been receptive to my touch and while gentle, I'm still a man. Bottom line? I'm not convinced she's gay. Even if she were to come out and declare she is (which she hasn't) I'm not sure I would believe it until she/we had gone through some counselling on the matter.

I am not unfamilliar with the gay culture. And not uncomfortable with any of these issues. My male ego is not traumatized or blinded by the fact that I have an OW instead of an OM. For me it's ultimately neither more difficult nor easier.

Thanks all for posting. G'night.

dewt

Hello Dewt,

Just went over to SYMC and read your story.
I can certainly relate to the mess!!
We have our share of addictions, anger issues, my WH has no job, recently had a DWI, we had a house fire and on and on and on. Too many big issues like that all at once really does make you want to take a walk out into the woods, as you said.

I read plan Dewt and I really admire how well thought out it is!!
So many are advising me to do plan B also and I agree with the fact that sometimes plan B might need to be tweaked a bit. I don't want to do the complete no contact thing with my WH but then I realize it wouldn't be plan B then, would it! LOL
My version of plan B would be very limited contact with each other.

For any one of us stuck in this awful situation, bottom line is that we each need to make our own choices. Even though an A is an A, and most of it is classic behavior, the details are not the same in every case.

Take care Dewt!

I agree 100% with committedandlovingit on this one. If your wife is having a full-blown romantic relationship with another woman, then your wife is a lesbian -- at the very least, she is bi-sexual.

No amount of Plan A or Plan B or Plan C or even Plan D is going to do one thing to change someone's sexual orientation.

Uhm, hi. I'm bi-sexual. That doesn't make me a lesbian. Nor does it make me unfaithful. Dylan has her own unique sesxuality, just like everyone else on the planet. Most people prefer the opposite sex. Some people prefer the same sex. Some people like people of either sex. Some people have high libidos, some have low libidos. Almost none of us are at the extreme of any of those things.

Dylan and Dewt have a slightly more difficult situation because their sexualities aren't aligned in the most common way for humans on this planet. That does not make the situation impossible. Not even close.

Besides, Dewt and Dylan have a few hundred issues to address before they have sex again anyway, so who cares what flavor of sexuality is interesting to them right now?

Besides which, there are solutions to problems like this. Marriages are made between gay men and lesbians with great regularity. Are they consummated? Sometimes. Are they fulfilling, satisfying ways to live life? Sometimes.

Having been through the situation myself (my ex is marrying her OM in two weeks), I know that it makes things harder. It does not, however, make them impossible.

Oh, and -- the one thing that can make things really difficult is a whole buncha people shouting "it's impossible! She's a lesbian! [Or in my case, she's not a lesbian...] There's no hope!" So I'd really recommend that everyone who's thinking about it take a deep breath and calm down. We don't know what's impossible, but I betcha this situation isn't going to be made or broken on sexuality issues.

these two people, whether they are sexually compatible or not, are tied together. I dunno what the heck ties them, but something does. They've been creating this mess together for more years than most of this board has been around. I'm waiting for the outcome just like everyone else, but it's not sexual orientation that's the key, here. It's purty window dressing sure, but it's only distraction to me at the moment.

Trust me on this one. Really, really, trust me on this one. Been there, got the t-shirt AND the toaster oven and even a few oven mitts.

Besides, Dewt and Dylan have a few hundred issues to address before they have sex again anyway...

[dewt develops sudden and pronounced twitch in his left eye...]

All jokes aside, I really appreciated that post, J. Thanks for finding the words to so clearly express my stance on this matter.

John

That's all I was saying. Thank you for seeing that.

committed