WAW is in Arkansas w/DD-5 & DS-4. I am in Texas. She bumped into OM 2/3/05 while visiting family. Returned 2/5 and asked about M. We have been CLM for 6.5yrs. I proposed 6yrs ago and never did the ceremony. I was dumb. We had other issues. She left for spring break 3/9. Called 3/12 to say she was staying there. She says she isn't coming back. She is seeing OM right now. OM has never been married never had kids. I have tried to tell her I've changed, but she asks, "How do I know? There's been so many times when you wouldn't change or changed for a few weeks only."

I know I can only show her. She says OM is a great guy and loves the kids. This of course makes me mad that he is already around our kids. She says, "Right now, I'm not interested in getting back together." She says she cannot try because she feels beaten down to the ground and can't get up. She says she feels happy right now.

I am so confused how to procceed. I know statistics show she will crash and burn with OM. I want to keep in contact with our kids. I am thinking about filing so she cannot be more than 50 miles with the kids from me. I know I must put the kids first, but the best thing for all involved is for us to work on our M and raise the kids intact. If I force her to do this will she hate me? Am I pretty much sealing the deal with her?

I am going to wait a little while, but will file before she establishes residency there. I want to give her a chance to crash & burn and realize her mistake. I need to find ways to make love deposits, but it's hard to find ways right now.

BTW, I mentioned the reading I had done HNHN and MB.com. I suggested she might give it a read. It really helped me understand her needs and where she was. I'm tempted to send her the book, but I don't think she's open to it right now. Maybe I should wait till she C&Bs. I don't want to help her improve her current R.

left and lost----first off welcome. read all you can here about plan a. have you exposed to anyone in your families whats going on?

maybe a bit more info on what was going on in the marriage may help us to guide you better....what exactly is she running from. what do you need to work on...things like that.

There were a lot of needs I didn't fill. I had trouble showing affection. I often talked down to her. I never abused her or the children. She says I am a wonderful father. My father is really bad about talking down to his wife. I told myself through the years not to be like that, but I still wound up doing it. She didn't feel accepted by my family. She didn't give them a chance really. I went through 3 years of hell with parts of her family before I was accepted. She couldn't go through 7 months of a little pressure down here. I owed my family money for our house down payment. Things were tight, but comfortable after we moved in. I had a little trouble getting started on the payments. To make matters worse, I work with the family business. They know all of our business. When I was childish and avoided family because of my inability to pay right now, questions and pressures started to be directed at her. She couldn't take the pressure apparantly.

I was also bad about helping out around the house. After we moved to Texas, she got a job working with my step-mother as a school bus driver. So she worked part-time and then had to come home and cook and clean. It wore her down hard. I didn't realize how bad at the time. I do now. I am sure she felt overwhelme having family members in every aspect of our lives. She probably felt like we would live under the thumb and watchful eye of my family.

I am trying to get back into the IT field and away from my family. I think this would help a lot. She also feels she can only be happy in Arkansas and I can only be happy in Texas. This is not true and I have said so. We lived in Arkansas for 4.5 yrs. The whole time we lived there we had family members or friends living with us. This put an enormous strain on us. I told her that if we could just stick with us, I would be happy. I told her she and our kids are my family and my home.

I think she lost respect for me in the way I handled my family. I needed admiration from her. My sexual needs weren't being met, but I realize she didn't want to have sex with me since I wasn't affectionate with her. I realize what a vicious cycle that is. I didn't feel she cleaned enough. I realize now that if I would've helped her with it, she would have been better.

She has had issues with depression since I met her. A year later, her father died. There were times in our relationship when she would be high for a while, but the majority of the time she would beat up on her self and get tired and lazy. I think right now she's on a high with this OM. After the newness wears off she will come down. I finally cut her off of the checking account Saturday. She spent $1000 in 3 weeks of being up there. She wanted to go to beauty school, but says she can't now. She will hve to get a job. As far as I know, she is living with her mom, has no car, signed the kids up on Medicaid and food stamps and has no money. There have been rumors that she is thinking of moving in with OM. It will be interesting once he has to start paying for things for her and the kids.

She told me last night that she still has love for me. She always will as the father of her children, but she doesn't love me the same way anymore. I told her that people fall in and out of love all the time. I told her I questioned my love 2yrs ago. I thought I had feelings for someone else. I backed myself into a corner there. She refused to move on until I told her who. She said that I knew her OM. I said yeah, but I don't know him. She said, oh so I know who it is. I decided to be honest and told her it was her sister. Ouch! She asked if anything ever happened. I said no, the only thing was I asked her if I could kiss her once. I realized I made a mistake the moment it came out of my mouth and apologized. Her sister and I talked about the problems W and I had. I told my W what I really wanted was her, my feelings were misdirected because of needs she wasn't filling. I said I rededicated myself to my W and realized I love her now more than ever. She seemed really shocked that it would be her sister. She said this was really akward. I hope this doesn't damage our hopes for reconciliation.

Her family knew about him before I did. She told them. I told the ones in Texas though. She asked me to stop harassing her family. The family seems like advocates for us working things out, especially for the kids. Her mother plugs for me here and there, but knows that she will have to figure things out for herself. I spoke with the OM and asked him to help me save my family. He told me I didn't have to worry about him standing in the way. Apparantly he wasn't very honorable.

When she came homein Feb. she had a guilty conscience vibe, which she admitted to last night. She asked me about getting married. I was very puzzled at the vibe I was getting. I made a puzzled look. She took it very, very wrong. I asked her at the time if something happened in Arkansas. She said no. I think she took this as the final rejection. She suddenly began thinking if he won't marry me I know someone will.

We had a huge discussion 2 days later. She tried to leave, but I begged for another chance. After an hour, she said she wouldn't go anywhere for now. I changed so many things over the next three weeks. I made conscious efforts to show affection. I spent more time with her. We went out to the movies, to a basketball game, and other activities together. We had an absolute blast during that time. A week before she left, I took her to Frederick's of Hollywood to pick out some sexy panties and such. We had fun. She joked around and I picked out a few things while she was doing the same. We made love, I mean real love twice during this period. We were supposed to the night before she left. She was supposed to model the new lingerie we bought. She tried to make herself nice and neat, but said the new roll-on nair burnt her and she couldn't do anything. This made me mad as the worries of an affair raced through my head.

I noticed the next morning before I took her to the airport that she had packed all of the new panties. I jokingly asked her about it and she shrugged me off with an explanation of they were her only decent ones. I found out later that she had been talking to OM since 2/5.

My WW told me our DD was sick last night. I just called to talk to her to check on her. My W was very short and mad. I guess I really pissed her off cutting off the checking account. Anyways, she signed the kids up for Food Stamps and Medicaid 2 days after she left me. Ripped the kids up out of school and enrolled them up there. I just got off the phone with her. Here is how it went:

ME: Hey! What's going on?

WW: Nothing

ME: I was calling to check on DD

WW: Both of the kids have an upper respiratory tract infection.

ME: You took them to a Dr., good.

WW: Yeah, thank God Medicaid covered it

ME: Ok, so you did get Medicaid?

WW: Yeah, if it weren't for that I would've been screwed

ME: Well you know I'm here. I told you I would help

WW: You cut off the check card so I couldn't pay for it.

ME: You could've gone to the bank and withdrawn money

WW: You didn't tell me that

ME: You said you didn't want to use it

WW: I'd really rather not. I'll open my own account tomorrow and we can handle it like that

ME: ok. Well, so she missed school

WW: Yes

ME: Ok, where is she now?

WW: At my mother's

ME: Oh, I called over there to check on her and didn't get an answer

WW: They were probably outside with this beautiful day

ME: Ok. If you could tell your mom to pick up the phone when you're not there so I can talk to the kids. I don't know if she doesn't answer because she doesn't want to be in the middle of all this or what.

WW: ok, well they're probably outside

ME: Ok. Are you feeling better?

WW: No, I never do. I'm not happy (mad I think, not sad), I'm tired, I'm stressed, I'm broke, I don't have a car. I gotta get a job. I can't go to school. What do you think?

ME: Ok, well everything will all be alright. I can understand. I can definitely understand....Alright I guess I'll try to call over at your mom's again.

WW: Alright, well my friend's getting a call

BOTH: Ok Bye

I try not to put too much spin on things, otherwise I would drive myself crazy with all the scenarios. What do y'all think of this convo?

Hi, left.

What have you done legally to get your children back?

This action by her is unconscionable. I think that your first action should be to do whatever is legally necessary to return your kids to their home.

Get an attorney - quick.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

I am considering filing to restrict her from moving more than 50 miles from our residence. I am debating when to do this. I could wait for a while. I'm supposed to get the kids in June, after school gets out. She will establish residency in Arkansas Sept.5th. I was going to wait until I had the kids. Do you think I should do it now? I should do this for the kids, period, I know. I am also considering how it will affect my Plan A. It will bring her back to the area so I can at least see her I suppose. It's a little hard to Plan A 600 miles apart.

It would seperate her physically from OM. Unless of course he was addicted to her enough to follow. I know she would obviously still call him. I fear forcing her back before the A has died naturally. She is stressed beyond belief already now that I cut her off from my wallet.

I just fear that filing too early will seal the deal forever.

Hi, left.

I think you are giving your fears a place in your decision making process that they do not deserve.

Your wife is now wayward. That is a bad thing, but additionally, she has taken your kids away from you. That is far worse than her being wayward.

It is time you stopped worrying about your wife or your fear, and get your kids back home and away from UNKNOWN circumstances. Right now, you are thinking that your wife is going to see to the needs of your children. Why would you think that, when she has done just the opposite?

Stop worrying about your marriage until you have established some modicum of control over your kids lives. Get an attorney now and request an emergency hearing and get your kids immediately returned. Do NOT wait on this. The longer you wait, the worse it will be.

All the best,
Gimble

Thanks Gimble. I am sending a list of questions to my attorney tomorrow for advise. I will let you know what I find out.

I'm trying to think of ways to be nice and affectionate this far away. As I said, it's hard to Plan A. I have a couple ideas, but need more. She always asked me to go to the zoo and to the beach with her and the kids. My lazy butt never wanted to go. I thought I would go to the zoo this weekend and take pictures of many animals. I was going to put a few funny captions with some of them. I thought I'd do a wish y'all were here type thing. I wanted to do the same for the beach. What do y'all think of these and please help me with more ideas. Should I just send it addressed to the kids or to WS and kids?

She's pissed and isolated, and she did it to herself. If she was fooling around and took the kids along. She's thinking more about herself.

I've got too little experience with this scenario though. My wife is leaving me, but she's paranoid I'm going to do something to her, and she makes almost twice as much money as I do.

L&Lost

you do need to act for the children first if your repost of your ww conversation is accurate. Your ww seemed a bit vague about where the kids were etc or what was going on or did not want to say.
My feeling is once she has residency of Ark again with teh kids you will have a BIG battle to get them back. Her srgument will most likely be you knew she was going for res did not object so too bad.
That is wrong.
you must fight for your kids right away.
It was not wrong to stop funding her affair - EA or PA I suspect she is feeling so guilty that is why she wants to limit the use of your money right now unless she has to. Unfortunately all too often that reluctance goes away.
This is not a happy situation for you or her or the kids.

I do suspect more going on than she has admitted and seems to think she can zap you from the family and insert OM and the kids will be ok. Real fog thinking and action here.

Get the kids DO NOT BELIEVE ANTHING SHE SAYS she will unfortunately lie to you and her self right now. If she promises this, that and the other in relation to the kids I suggest you do not give in anyway here. She has acted selfishly and is not putting the kids first.
I think you should only trust HER ACTIONS - your wife has gone away and been replaced by a WW..remember that in your Plan A and interactions.
Its not over by any means, do not LB or argue or accuse...use plan A to support her needs as much as possible - $$$ support when she moves back home - but chip away at her affair by exposure, etc and FIGHT for those kids.
All the best.

I spoke with a few attorneys the past two days. I feel so confused. I don't want to file for D, but I am told it is the only way to get the kids back. I could file without serving just yet. I'm trying to Plan A. It is so hard to not plead my case to her. I got sucked into it last weekend.

She told me some specifics of why she felt like seperating. I told her some of my feelings. I don't think I moved mountains, but maybe a few pebbles in her case against me. I told her I loved and missed her and the kids. She paused for a second and said, "Well, as you can tell, they love & miss you too." I said jokingly," Oh ok, so you don't miss me the least little bit huh?" She said, "I do....I don't miss you when we have conversations like this though. It stresses me out. It doesn't just ruin my day; it ruins tree days." I felt slightly encouraged by this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Gotta go be back with more in a bit...

Left and lost,

Texas should be ashamed. I know they don't have legal separation there and it really rips apart families, if you ask me.

Anyway, the point is to get your kids back in your life, and WW, too, if you can, so you can do a close-up Plan A. One option is to file for divorce. Another is to really be aggressive and try to find that new IT job in Arkansas, where she and the kids are.

If you can't bring the WW and kids to you, what's to stop you from going to them? Have you given any thought to that?

~ Snow

I have thought about doing this Snow. Right now, I have jurisdiction in Texas for matters with the kids. I do not want our kids to grow up in the tiny town she is in. There is no opportunity for them there and none for use either. That is a big reason we left. She was as big an advocate for leaving Arkansas 8 months ago as I was. I have no support in Arkansas. If she doesn't come back to me, I would lose the ability to keep them in Texas. It is an enormous gamble. I know I have to take some to get the woman I love back, but I don't like gambling with my kids.

The latest. I didn't call WW for 6 days, hoping she would finally break down and call. Yesterday she finally did. She called 8 times in an hour. I didn't answer and instead called her back. Wanted to make her wonder what the hell I was doing.

The first thing out of her mouth was money. She wanted to go open her own checking account and thought I could give her money to do so since I just got paid. I told her I hadn't picked up my paycheck, but would try to deposit it before the end of the day. She said well, I'll just wait till Monday then.

Then she wants to know why I didn't answer the phone when she called. It's funny because whenever I don't answer her call immediately, she asks questions or makes comments like "well, if I call are you going to answer this time?"

Anyways, I told her I was pretty busy. "Doing what?" she asked. "I'm working . I was in a meeting earlier and I had my hands full later. I couldn't get to you" I replied. "Oh ok."

WW: How was your week?

BH: It was pretty busy. I had a lot of things going on. I was pretty tied up.

WW: Why? What were you doing?

BH: I went out. (My older cousin) Bo came to town so I hung out with Him and (my friend that's having similar relationship issues with my cousin Jenny) Scott.

WW: Oh ok...how are Jenny and Scott? Are they back together?

BH: Well, on again off again. In the end, yeah they'll be together.

WW: Well, I talked to my cousin. She has a friend that works in the transportation dept. at _ISD. He can get me a job driving a bus again. The only thing is I can't get this job until I've been exited from my job down there.

BH: Ok then.

WW: Oh, this leads me into something I need to talk to you about. There are rumors going around at the bus barn down there about me. They need to stop.

BH: What control do I have over that?

We went on and on about this. She knew the information was coming from my step-mother that works there. WW said the rumors were nearly verbatim of things she's told me. The rumor is she is miserable, stressed out, stole all my money, and is probably coming back. I told her my mother certainly wouldn't have said that WW was probably coming back. I told her my mother is one person that is in her corner, which she acknowledged.

BH: Why do you care about what everyone else thinks?

WW: You're right. I shouldn't. I'm not there and I'll never be there again so it doesn't matter.

BH: So you're never going to work at the bus barn again huh?

WW: No...is that a surprise?

BH: WW, I was just kidding.

WW: Well, at least not at that bus barn (I wanted to read something into this, but I am resisting the urge)

BH: Well I'm glad you called. I need to file our state taxes, but I need your signature. Do you want me to sign for you? I'll give you the money, I don't care.

WW: How much is it? Well yeah go ahead I don't care.

The conversation wrapped up after this. This conversation frustrated me. I was told the more she gets setup there and the longer she is there, the harder it will be to get her back and the worse it will look to the court.

So at this point I am ready to call my lawyer to file and serve her. I was going to file and wait to serve before. I get so desperate at this point I decide I'm going to call her and propose to her (remember we're CLM) and give her one last chance before I file. I call her cell. She didn't answer. So I call her mother's house.....

For the 1stX in 3wks, MIL answers. She tells me:

MIL begs me not to say anything to WW repeatedly during this conversation. WW has been hanging out with bad friend and is becoming like her. MIL's really irritated with WW. Over the years, WW & friend usually hang out heavy for a while and eventually piss each other off and don't talk for some time. MIL thinks they've been hanging out this long because friend is only other means of transportation and friend gives her a few dollars here and there for helping with remodeling. MIL says if WW got a job or a car maybe she wouldn't hang out with friend so much.

I asked MIL why she looks up to friend? I said I think WW admires how friend doesn't take crap from anyone and feels comfortable with herself. I said that is admirable sometimes... "To a certain point! Friend is just obnoxious trash though!" MIL interrupted. I agreed. When WW and I spoke about affection slowing down in a marriage she cited friend's marriage as evidence to the contrary. MIL said, "What an example of a marriage!" "I know they have cheated on each other who know how many times!" I replied.

MIL said WW came in Thursday pretty "exasperated." WW said, "I'm stupid! I had a good life, a house, a car, a job. I'm so stupid!" MIL thinks WW is starting to realize what she is throwing away.

WW also said OM has started being cold and distant towards her and isn't sure why. MIL thinks OM's starting to realize the hornets nest he's walked into. MIL tells me to hold on for a little longer and see what happens. MIL thinks WW may fall soon.

I ask her about this bus driver job WW mentioned. MIL says it hasn't developed yet. WW hasn't even spoken with the district, but that it could develop into something.

MIL confirms that WW is living care/stress free right now because she isn't being an adult. She isn't taking care of the kids. MIL is, especially DD-5. WW isn't cooking, cleaning, or doing much of anything except hanging out with friend. MIL acts irritated that she doesn't know what WW is doing half the time. MIL sounds very stressed and tired. States she is working as much overtime as she can. I think she implies to keep up with WW, GC, but I'm not 100% on that.

I made sure MIL knows how much I have given WW over the past month. She knew a lot, but didn't know that much. MIL agrees I was right to cut WW off. MIL tells me my 1st order of business should be to keep everything going financially.

We talk about my willingness to move to AR if that's the only place WW can be happy. MIL wishes she could deed land over to us nearby and move there. I agree that would be satisfactory to me if M is saved. We discuss how it took 2 yrs before everyone accepted me in AR, WW didn't give my family 8 months. Told MIL my step-mother is in WW corner regarding ENs and M issues. I tell MIL that SM treated me like dirt after hearing some of WW's problems with me. MIL found that hilarious. MIL thinks I am a good guy and best way is for M to be saved and DC to be raised with family intact.

MIL again, tells me to wait a little bit and see how this falls. I of course mentioned nothing legal. I know when the poo hits the fan, blood is thicker than mud.

WW tried calling back 4 times during MIL convo. I called back and said it was a redial accident. It is funny God gave me exactly what I needed the moment I needed it. WW said her hands were full with groceries at the time I called. Thank God they were or I could have jumped the gun on a lot of things.

Well, what do y'all think? This D decision is really twisting me up. FWS, what do y'all think? Susan, Aussieswife? Thanks!

I'm really struggling today. WW has a new-hairbrained idea today that I'm sure came from friend. She is going to move into a 3bdrm house w/friend & husband & 3kids, plus our 2 kids. Friend is broke, WW has no money, but they somehow expect to do this. WW asks me to bring bunk beds when I pick up DC in May.

MIL tells me today that everyday it's some new crazy idea. It goes back and forth with OM as well. Some days WW talks about how good she had it and how she doesn't know about OM, the next everything is peachy. MIL says all we can do is hold on and let it run its course. Told MIL WW spent over 30hrs on phone with OM in month b4 she left. MIL couldn't believe it.

I'm struggling because I know I have to serve WW D papers in order to get my kids back. I want this A to die naturally, not by me forcing her back w/DC. I know she will probably hate me for a while. How in the world do I not LB with this move?! I'm being forced to do this. Will she get over it? MIL and I feel if she just stepped away from OM and friend, WW would think clearly, but who knows. I need advice please!

WW called last night at 10PM. I tried a new approach with her. I stood up to her. She asked if I deposited my paycheck or sent the truck title for her. I did not. She asked if I had opened another account to keep $ from her. I craftily avoided answering that one. She asked me if I wasn't sending her money to try and make her miserable and come back. I told her I had better things to do than sit around thinking of ways to make her miserable.

She said I'm trying to punish her because I'm pissed. I said I'm not happy about the situation, but if she doesn't want me, I'm not going to sit around dwelling on it. She seemed a little surprised with my frankness. The bad thing was I took it a little to far and got a little mean I think.

She asked me how my certification tests were going. I said fine and why do you want to know. She got pissed. The last time she asked about my search for a new job was because she just wanted to know for child support. She thinks I think she's a money grubbing whore. It went downhill from there. She told me she wouldn't call me until I opened my own account and put a little money in our joint account for her to use. She wanted me to reactivate her checkcard as well, but I said I couldn't.

I hate playing games. I feel like I never say the right thing when I speak to her. This conversation started out well, but once again turned south.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />I feel like I'm alone in this post. I'm filing for D to get my DC back thx all for that advice. Any new thoughts? Making her come back with the kids will probably douse the A in the end. Can I equate ending it this way to the way others have contacted OPSes and ended As? Will the feelings generated be the same? Help!

I hate to bump my own post, but I am desperate right now for some advice.


I am trying to play the indifferent game from the 180 Divorce-Bustin List and Plan A. How in the world can I balance them? Aargh!