2long...

this moniker fits better than you may realize in my opinion....

too long has your wife chosen a path of great cruelity that she chooses to direct and fire at you...

all the things she does and say..she chooses them...

her empty ridiculous anger and resentment she holds on to like a sceptor...to the point that you must at time question if perhaps she isn't correct...perhaps keeping RM as a friend is a good thing....

her outward blame and barely contained hostility at you as the target...always garuntees that she never has to turn it inward to where it really belongs on her self and her actions and choices....

you do protect her too much...

don't tell her your wants or desires no more...
don't bother...

tell her your actions...

I choose to no longer be with someone who does not want to be with me..
and who chooses in actions and words to make that clear to me......

I 2long choose to no longer be treated with disdain and hostility...that I do not deserve and will no longer stand...

your actions and choices to behave so cruelly to me my dear wife have become in my world intolerable...
I will not have them
nor tolerate them any longer...

I would ask her to leave...
I would pack for her
I would cut contact for a while

your belief that this will make her happy is untrue...this woman has burned a path of destruction that no matter how much she protests...she knows it is her match that lit it...

this woman chooses unhappiness..

oh and 2long...
you in your wit and humor and brilliance...and insight..
you deserve more and better...and me telling someone they deserve better is not something i say often..it's too pop-psyche-cliche for me own usual taste..

but you
in this case
you do deserve better
it is logical...
and I truly believe that even Spock the most logical out there..would tell you...

you must be free of this ...

I believe 2long that if you stay... that she will not change she will destroy you....
that she will smother your loving spirit...

squeeze sings..
you got to throw a stone to get the pool to ripple...

I think you have tossed a 100000 stones...time to throw something a little bigger..

I would not discuss
I would not verbally engage..
if I were you I would act...

ARK^^

Ark is absolutely right. And I suspect you've known that even before she said that, for a long time.

Time to get off the pot, my friend.

All blessings.

I agree...

In a similar way that is one of the first ways my husband stood up to me. He said to me one day "I can see I am not the man in your life."

Without my knowledge, he arranged with his boss to be detailed to another state 8 hours away to work for a while. And with that... *poof* he packed up and left for a month. He did not ask me my opinion or how I felt about it. There was no discussion.

It was the beginning of waking me up...especially after I drove around with an almost flat tire for a week. I was so dependent on my husband for these small things. I also realized how much I took for granted all the things that he did.

Susan

My opinion only... there is too much talk (or threats) and not enough action.

Susan

Wow, some powerful $h!+, folks.

CSue:

That's the problem, I ask direct questions, and she doesn't answer them. I have 2 assume I know what's going on, and I have a his2ry of wrong assumptions. Right ones, 2, but I can't always tell which. I guess that I must not be ready 2 cry DV! yet. Damn.

I do need 2 be done with the fight, though. Or maybe it's just a struggle. I dunno.

My kids were down at the Chinese Theatre in line for Star Wars last night, so my W and I went out 2 dinner. It was okay, but weird.

Not the same table, but similar conversation 2 one we had about 2 years ago, about her considering going out of state for a PhD. At her conference, she said, she talked 2 various schools, and described what she learned about 2 of the possibilities. The first is in RM's state, and she doesn't know that I know he has an address there now (she just might not know herself, but I wonder). She said that if she went there, she'd have 2 "start all over", meaning they'd not credit her for her MS courses or some nonsense. I find that incredibly hard 2 believe. In any case, she said she doesn't want 2 do that, in addition 2 having 2 live there for a year 2 establish residency. Frankly, I was a little disappointed that she doesn't want 2 do something like that. I ac2ally wonder if the "start all over" is a reference 2 RM's own sitch, because he never completed his PhD where they went 2 school 2gether, and he doesn't have a Master's, and with the new address in this other campus' home town, he looks like he does plan 2 start over. I also wonder if she saw him at the conference and talked 2 him, not the school, and that's the scource of this "information."

I thought 2 ask, but I don't think I really care 2 set her up for going deeper underground, if that's what she's got in mind.

The other option she looked at is a "research only" PhD from the UK, where she would spend a 2ple weeks a year at the university and do her research here in the states. THat kind of deal would work best for her, ac2ally.

Don't know where I fit in2 all these plans, but I should also note that she does continue 2 do things here, planning for getting things done on the house - kitchen cabinets, new dryer - and she still likes 2 pick up stuff she knows I'll like - All Stars, CDs (I played her that Peter Murphy song, and she's going 2 look for the CD 2day).

It feels really odd, though. Like yes2rday when she said she was still so mad. At me, apparently. But why? I've not done ANYTHING but perhaps seemingly what I've been told (most of which is in my and our family's best interest anyway - like working on the house), so what could she be mad at me about? Posting here? I doubt she reads any of it, but she'd be welcome 2 if she wants. Coaching? I haven't since November. I think she knows that, but maybe she doesn't. Who knows? Who cares?

Yeah, I'm dwelling. Not on the A, so much anymore (though perhaps she thinks I am?). Just on the whole protracted process. And what she's doing. Which is all the more ironic because she tells me so little. Just surficial stuff.

2day she's off 2 work with her friend. Back 2morrow. I get some time alone, which is welcome. Then she's off on the field trip next week (yeah, I got the dates wrong again).

Susan:

Truth is, I may not be quite prepared 2 say that. But I believe you're right - she likely won't ever change. I first suspected that almost 29 years ago, but talked myself out of believing it. I hope it's not that I'm "chicken", just that I must be certain. 29 years is a long time.

Hi dewt!

gc:

I've often said that it's "easier" 2 apply the MB methods in "full blown" affair sitches, because they're so black and white. Harder in LTAs where the WS never chooses 2 leave for the OP. Doesn't excuse me from doing anything, but it's true.

"Does your W think she's above all the self-help mumbo-jumbo? I wonder if she's a little embarrassed by it. All the counseling and talkin', talkin', talkin' makes her have to admit she's just a human being like everybody else, and that having a certain sort of smarts doesn't put her above being dumb enough to screw up her life. I think she's a little proud."

Correct on all counts.

ark IS right on all counts, 2. And I have known this for a long time. Hm... ...where's that roll of TP?

I'm thinking.

-ol' 2long

I just checked that RM's state University's catalog, and she wouldn't have 2 start over. So I wonder where she got that idea.

-ol' 2long

CSue holds up her hand waving - waiting for 2long to call upon her to answer the question as to why 2long's wife is still angry....

CSue can't wait any longer and blurts out..."I know, I know...it's because of that e-mail you set RM last year.... that really really ticked her off!

Just guessing, that's all.

Honestly, your discussion at dinner was good. Can you pick it back up and continue on with it? Well, maybe not tell her what you found out about the university stuff...

The house that never gets finished, sort of like the Winchester house and like that house, all the rooms lead to nowhere.

2L,

I hope you feel how much all these people CARE about you...you've got quite a cheering section, a stadium full it feels like!

I like th Winchester House, just wouldn't want to live there physically or emotionally!

Hey 2mcm!

Long time no hear.

email me at **edit**, and I'll send you the Earl for my D's wedding pix at the house.

Looks a bit like the Winchester house, but it's purdier!

-ol' 2long

2long...my friend...

I don't know a heck of a lot, but...something keeps coming back into my head time and time again...

I think sometimes that she WANTS you to go "ballistic" on her..Not cause she wants you to be the "beginning" to the end, but...

She wants to see that in you...Possibly because, as the way you have stated things about her, she seems to me to be "spinning her wheels" as to life in general. You think that that she doesn't KNOW that you sorta tip-toe around her and a lot of issues? Maybe...just maybe...you ought to try stomping around...make noise...throw something...darn-it, curse real loud or something.

Throw a monkey-wrench in it somewhere.

I can relate to your sitch somewhat, in that it is similar to problems that arise sometimes here at work. Those darned intermittant problems that crop up...the ones with no definite rhyme or reason for doing so...those are the MOST difficult to fix...You pray for the day that it TOTALLY fails so you CAN fix it....Even if that means "forcing" it to completely fail.

Throw that monkey wrench in it. Stop this out of control spinning malfunction. It may wreck things for a while, but...at least you know where you stand, and what it takes to put it back together.

Maybe she NEEDS that...Maybe she WANTS you to do that...Maybe, just maybe...it has become too easy for her to let you go unnoticed.

Time to make her notice you.....


hcii

hcii!

Good 2 hear from you again!

There's a lot 2 be said for your suggestion. I've been given that one many times in the past. Why haven't I acted? It might work, but it would probably evoke a massive volcanic explosion first.

My W has always complained that her family yelled at each other all the time, and that at least they got everything out. I think she said that hte animosity didn't build that way, but I know it has.

My W complains that my family is the exact opposite, that we keep everything bottled up, so it festers. Truthfully, I don't think that much builds up before we do let it out. There's just not anything like that much 2rmoil in my family.

I've often considered the possibility that blowing up at my W would be welcome by her. The times I have gotten angry haven't worked at all well, though. But they might be a whole lot better than bottling up my frustrations at being the brunt of her unfathomable anger and resentment.

-ol' 2long

Hi 2:

I don't think a blowup is wise. However, I do think it's time that you begin to act differently. It's time to make major changes in yourself. Of course, for the better. Also, though, the changes need to be a stretch for you that would really "freak" your out. Like Georgia and his Hawaiian shirt that I was encouraging him to wear....

I would say MAKE SOME MAJOR, BLOW HER MIND CHANGES that she would least at expect. Changes that would mean risk-taking for you, changes for the better....

DON'T EXPECT A RESPONSE. DO THIS FOR YOURSELF!

What do you think? I'm thinking seriously about a tattoo....

Blast, did it again...

...I write a reply, but forgit 2 hit "okay submit" after I've hit continue already.

Anyway, changes I'll try 2 do, but I'm a pretty beachin' guy already, doncha know?

My W made my Hawaiian shirts, so I'd have 2 outdo myself some other way. Bet FGG doesn't have one with dinosaurs AND volcanos on it, does he?

I don't do tatoos, but maybe one of Saturn as seen from one of its moons?

-ol' 2long

Hi 2long,

I think the consenses is that it will probably take a change to get her to react.

You wonder if you are ready for that. It looks like nothing short of a major change will invoke a response from her. As you say, you ask questions, and she ignores you. She won't even answer or acknowledge.

The big question is then, what's your time table.
What time frame will you accept?

If it's still the same in 6 months?
One year?

If you are not ready now, are you willing to set a date?

Note, I am not trying to set you up, but please look at your feelings and see what you think. It's not about controling what she does, it's about setting boundaries on what you will accept, and what your reaction will be if the boundaries continued to be trampled on.

It's one thing to be working with someone that talks, tries, and occasionly has a relapse. It's another to be with someone that won't talk, won't try, and that treats you badly.

What are your boundaries - or what would you like them to be?

What kind of time frame should there be for enforcing them?

How badly do you want to see a change? What are you willing to live with?

I think the suggestions you are getting from everyone are really good. Expecially Susan, and CSue, who are gals, and have some of that insight in to her mind.

And BTW, where the heck did Weaver go?

SS

Hm...

...changes... I could do what I said I was going 2 do in August 2002, and finish my Model A. I've always said that if I had 2 sell my cars (I only have 4, and 3 of them run!), the Model A would be the last 2 go. The VW truck would be 2nd 2 last. The van my W likes would be 2nd, and the one I got from my dad would be first. I only drive 7 miles 2 work, so I could get by on the ol' flathead 4banger, crashbox transmission, and mechanical brakes just fine.

-ol' 2long

Modle A???

No, NO, NO,

Change the way you interact with HER.

I think you may be setting me up - What with Pep, Ark, Susan,..................

SS

SS:

What's wrong with interacting with the Model A?

Yeah, okay. Suggestions?:

Last night, we went 2 dinner and had a decent convo. Then we went home and watched a DVD (she would have just gone 2 sleep if I hadn't 2rnd it on). She must have felt good about the convo 2, because she held my hand and we chatted about small stuff in between scenes on the 2be. She fell asleep facing me instead of rolling over and facing away.

But she still gets up around 3 or 4am and goes downstairs and sleeps down there. It's weird.

My prevailing behavior when this happens (pretty much every night for months now), is 2 go down there around time 2 fire up the coffee pot, bring her a Dr Pepper (her vice for waking up in the morning), and watch the news with her (or talk, if she will).

...I have no clue, really, how 2 do things like "180's" or even just change my interactions with her. I feel inauthentic when I try.

What oughta I do? (she won't be home 2night, though).

-ol' 2long

The girls gave lots of things, so read that again, but in my mind, it is not letting it go when she refuses to answer.

" You know, walking away without answering me doesn't help, and I won't be here for ever if it continues this way."

But you can only say that if it's true - and you need to know what you mean if you say it, because she might ask.

You would need a time line in your mind.

"I mean, if we go another year like this, with me talking and you ignoring, I am not going to stay with you."

I am glad you talked last night. If it would get better, and stay better (stay better mostly, I realize there are relapses) then you have progress. If you look back, and there are no real changes in the last year, then ........

SS

I'm still here, limited though because I have my daughter and she has a TIMER. She's out riding her bike for now so I'll speak.

I agree with HCII about going balistic on her.

And why didn't you ask her right out what she was so mad at you for? You didn't even ask her why.

And if I asked somebody a question and they didn't even answer me, well that would be the start of the ballistic thing for me.

And why does she have to be so smart anyway. You guys are grown, it's time to have fun.

2long is too complacent. Good in some situations and for the short term but bad when passion (not just the sf kind) is necessary to maintain a romantic relationship.

Do what everyone is advising 2long so the next 30 years of your marriage are years of joy. You have nothing to lose at this point because you are not becomming okay with things. Your theads are coming more frequent regarding your sitch, and that means you are reaching some kind of a point, and hopefully not the point of no return when you are gone and she finally "gets it".

I don't think she will let you divorce her 2long, I think she will go through some major changes if you leave for awhile. She'll experience some pain then, remembering how shabbily she treated you and the union you share and realizing that the single life SUCKS after the age of 40. Especially for those who had a comfortable marriage with a good man who loved her.

Remember, people don't change until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of changing.

Your pain in staying the same is beginning to outweigh the pain of drastic change, let her have some of it. Maybe you'll both change and then your marriage can be reborn.

Edited to add that the single life doesn't really suck after the age of 40, it's actually quite peaceful and not as lonely as being lonely in a marriage would be. But I don't see your wife adjusting well to the single life after having you for almost her entire adult life.