I definitely want him to admit he has a drug problem because I feel like the problem will never get better if he does not admit to it or acknowledge it. So, it is like there are times when things get really, really bad that he will verbally admit to having a drug problem, but I think he only admits to it to try and apease or pacify me for the moment.

He is a local delivery driver and has a lot of freedom on his job. I know from cell phone records that he has called drug dealers during his work day. I think he uses while on the job. The only time (right now) that we are not together is when one of is at work, a counseling session, a bible study, or he is with his mentor. But, I know from the past that he can easily stop by a drug house, get high, go to whatever he is suppose to go to, then head home. He has been using hard drugs since he was 11. He says he was probably about 7 or 8 the first time he smoked marijuana with his brothers. He has made comments like they are no big deal, it just makes llife easier, just makes life more fun, etc. And he has also made comments to me before that I will never get it because I have never used before. I have tried before making life as easy and stress free as possible for him. He still used. I have tried making life confrontational and holding him to the highest standards. He still used. I have tried in between and everything I can think of. He still used. I really do not think (with the exception of pray) that I have any control or influence over his drug use. I am open to talking about programs, etc, with him. I lovethe idea of him trying anything positive to help hin truly leave the drugs alone. At this point when I bring it up he says something like I am doing fine, I am going to IC, Bible Studies, hanging out with the mentor, leave me alone. So for right now that is what I am trying to do, but already money has not been adding up right and there have been other signs. So, I am trying to focus on God, me, and the kids the best I can. I continue to pray for him. I will always pray for him.

Dear Stormy Dakota,

The bahvioural modification I was suggesting, tot take one issue to tell the truth about, was not something I was suggesting youimpose on H. I was suggesting that you come to an agreement with H, about something he was willing to agree to try. Marriage Builders talks about POJA, Policy of Joint Agreement.

Behaviorally, I suggest you think of extra things you can do for H, and then try to find things to reward, then try connecting the two.

Boundaries Face to Face talks about haveing the difficult conversation. Apparently talking about doing more rehab is a difficult topic for him, as it has been approached, thus far.

So I suggested some approaches to the conversation about other programs. Discussing just the possibilities and difficulties of various programs might be an approach. Rather than taking a persuaive sweet or persuasiv threatening, just a discussion of the options, as a partner of someone with free will.

The concept of Free Will isimportant. It is necessary to let the person have enough reins, so they feel they can fll to the bottom. But I contend that the botoom is not a necesary conditon of rehab, , although it sometimes happens that way.

A program you could do together,is an effective manner of prayer and laying on of hands. I have taken the Silva Method, and find the teaching quite hepful. They teach everything you need to know about healing with the laying on of hands, and visualizing healing, and sending healing energy, as Christ did. Silva calls it meditation, but it is actually healing prayer. Silva basic is taught in one weekend, then ther are graduate courses. If you are only pryaing, and not laying on hands, then you could learn to be a more effective healer. Silva also upgrades self-disciplen, which is an imporant key to getting off drugs, and making the life-style changes necessary to stay off drugs. Silva Healing and weekend Courses

Leading or a=taking an active role in an organization can be a focal poit to keep off drugs. What are H's political ideeals? What avenues for expression of his political ideals are available?

My partner and I have differences in ideals. I recently asked her agree for us to support each other in the advocacy of our separate beliefs, and not use advocacy within the partnership, only support of advocacy.

God Bless

It is soooo hard to love someone and see them destroying themselves. When my X had brief times of sobriety prior to recovery he was wonderful. So, I knew he could be different. That's what made it extra hard to give up or let go.

I have a Master in Social Work and have been in practice for 27 years. Now, if anyone could figure out an effective intervention for my X I thought it should have been me! In reality it probably took me longer to give up on trying because of that illusion! If I just loved him more...was more patient...expected less...expected more...could make up for childhood wounds...etc...etc. If I could get him to understand how much he was hurting me, hurting his kids from a prior marriage...financially, emotionally.. I even said at one point (prior to his getting into recovery)that I knew I could never compete with the feelings he got from drugs/alcohol, and I "almost wished he was having an affair instead of using, because at least I might have a chance at winning him back when up against another person." Guess I was wrong about that too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

SD, it was easier (not easy) for me to set an ultimatum because we weren't married at the time, and I had our apartment in my name. I could enforce his not living with me if he didn't get into and stay in recovery. When I finally set the limit...and was able to stick with it (after 2 years!)..it was to protect me from his addictive behaviors...not to stop him from using. (Kind of like a plan B???) Neither he nor I, nor other addicts I have worked with since, knows for sure why "this time" the recovery "stuck".

AA/NA is not for everyone. (I'll probably get clobbered by those in Recovery for saying that!) The main thing is that he isn't staying away from NA/AA because they are more confrontive there. It's harder to lie or try and put one over on another addict! lol Are the people he's working with aware of his addictions and experienced in working with addicts?

SD, I'm not sharing these things to try and tell you what you need to do in your situation. I just want to offer you a listening ear and share some of the similar challenges I faced. I know that I beat myself up emotionally time and time again for staying in the situation. That didn't help me. I finally started giving myself credit for any baby steps I made to take care of myself and set some limits with him. As a dear friend of mine said, "1% to 2% change is still change!"

I hope you keep on posting so we can help support you. It can be a very lonely position to be in.

Senator_H,
Bless you for being here to support SD and offer your thoughts/suggestions. I have never been one to believe that there is only one path or method leading to healing. 12-step programs have definately been the most successful in treating addictions at this point in time. It has not, however, been a "cure-all". Bill W. had to start somewhere with developing AA. Whose to say that there aren't other paths of healing to be discovered and developed?

Stormy

I think that everyone lies. What they lie about is more important than wheather or not they lie. People who grew up in abusive family relationships, especially adult children of alcoholics, lie when it is just as easy to tell the truth. The process is generally the person trying to keep control of their own situation because most of their early life was spent trying to control an impossible situation.

It is not a matter of "biting the bullet" and becoming an "honest person". Those problems that resulted in the person having to feel that they must have a "safe environment" free from condemnation in order to expose their real "self" allowing the kind of honesty that many take for granted. Those who grew up in the type of environments I mentioned earlier spent much of their time trying to protect themselves and families from the dark secret that would expose them to the world. They also "lied" to eachother within the family unit trying to make it appear that they were "normal" to eachother. Additionally those growing up in these types of environment find themselves guessing as to what "normal" is.

For many undoing the "lies" is not an easy process.
H

Dear Heart Mending,

How are things going for you now?

God Bless

"The bahvioural modification I was suggesting, tot take one issue to tell the truth about, was not something I was suggesting youimpose on H. I was suggesting that you come to an agreement with H, about something he was willing to agree to try. " I thought that was what you were talking about I was tryig to think of some different examples of behavior modification so when I mentioned it he could have different ones to think about and consider. Maybe even come up with one of his on along the same guidelines. Yesterday, I tried mentioning just discussing some different proograms and aspects and programs and what he thought about them while not mentioning you need to go to one, etc. You know just compare programs, get an idea of what he likes or dislikes about them, etc. But, he got very angry at me and basically said , but not in such nice words dam women, I am trying , leave me alone. At that point I just changed the subject. I guess because I have been so pushy before about Na & rehab even when I just try discussing it without the intent of him trying it he just automatically goes on the defensive. Maybe with some time I can feel that out again. He does not care at all about politics. They bore him. I have an intrest in politics and personally like George Bush and feel that as America we need to protect and stand up for what is righht. Rene has no opinion either way. Since he doesnot see how it effects him he is not interested. The only time I have seen h im interested in politics is if some one mentions legalizing or not legalizing drugs. Then he is interested. Of course he is for the legalization of all drugs. I am very interested in the praying and laying hands on program. I got excited when I read about that. That is awesome. Even if Rene is not interested maybe it would be could for me. Right now I personally need peace and joy in my life. You have a lot of good ideas and suggestions. I will say I went to an ALANON meeting last night and they are against me trying to control or save Rene in any way. they think I need to completely let go and let Rene decide what he really wants on his own. I feel torn. It is like he is drowning. I want to help him come up for water, but I feel like I am drowning with him in the process. You seem to have a more baanced approach to it: offer help, suggestions, ideas, but also respect his free will. At this point I feel like everything I do ends up being wrong.

Dear Hiker,

You bring up a good point about peop-le who habitually tell falshoods,

For generally truthful people, it takes a conscious choice to lie. For the person who has developed a habit of lying, it takes a conscious effort to tell the truth.

So generally truthful people wil have difficulty understanding the perspective of the individual who lies, as a habit of self-preservation/protection.

God Bless

Heartmending "Are the people he's working with aware of his addictions and experienced in working with addicts?" Yes, they are aware. His counselor specializes in addictions and anger managment. We also both see the same counselor, but we see him individually and everything is kept confidential. His mentor is also aware that he struggles with drug addictions and lying. The Men's Bible Study he attends is only aware of what he decides to share with them. I can relate to so much of what you say. Sometimes it sounds like you are talking from my exact experiences. Thanks for the help I appreciate it.

Hiker. Everything you wrote about is true and applies. It helps to understand I just wish a light blb would go on for him that he no longer needs to lie to cope and deal. Like I have stated before even when he is being faithful and clean, not using, he still lies. He will lie about very unimportant , random stuff. It is just the way you described.

Dear Stormy Dakota,

Backing off is proably a good idea, if you see that H is getting upset.

The balance is like the Love Bank. You can makes some Deposits, and make some withdrawals. Keeping as many of your withdrawals from the love bank, to be helping H, is probably a good goal.

I can see the cycle that you sggest rehab, H gets mad, and you feel you were wrong. Just PLEASE change the feeling to an undersanding that you were doing GOOD.

I understand Al Anon preaching avoiding saving H from his deserved consequences. There is a school of thought that drug rehab should be 100% voluntary. Encouraging Rehab, is not enabling, in my opinion.

But you can be supportive of the activities H is taking?

Can you ever meet H for lunch? Fill his day with extra positive acitivites so ther is no time for stopping by friends for a quick smoke?

Get H involved in a legalize Marijuana for medical purpuses. Get him involved as a leader. Maybe you don't support that so much yourself but suport him getting involved, and bake cookies for thier meeting. If H is involve in publicly advocating Medical Marijuana, then that is a reason that he himself should avoid using MJ.

you can ask, "Anything I shold give you a special reward for today? Anything yo can tell me to feel more confident that you are passing up opportuies for time wiht your drug friends?"


God Bless

"I can see the cycle that you sggest rehab, H gets mad, and you feel you were wrong. Just PLEASE change the feeling to an undersanding that you were doing GOOD." Thanks for the comment. This whole situation can be so negative and destructive to my self esteem as far as my role as a Wife goes.

During the school year I do not get an off campus lunch. We have to remain at the school all day. But,I can meet him for Lunch during the Summers. I am not for sure how I feel about him trying to get a group together to organize that. Maybe , it is a good idea and I am just being selfish, but for some reason the idea scares me and makes me feel uncomfortable. If he was honestly for legalizing it for that reason I would definitely be supportive, but he wants to legalize so he can use all drugs without any consequenses and at a cheaper price.

He enjoys fishing and the outdoors. so, when the eather is nice we pack the kids up and go fishing, etc. There are also other positive activities that he likes. I try to arrange them when possible. I know he owuld love for us to do some things together without the kids, but money is so tight with three little ones and I do not have anyone who would watch them for free or for a trade. I have tried things like renting DVD"S he likes and planning a late evening for us in the livingroom or bedroom after they fall a sleep. These type of things seem to help a little, but when it comes down to it I just can not compete with the feelings, high, or ectasy that he gets for cocaine, crack, heroine, and/or marijuana. I will never be able to compete with that.

I just wanted to say again that I am very interested in that laying hands on and praying program that you mentioned.

I tried telling Rene's boss about his drug problem the last time when we were seperated. he told me he did not appreciate me trying to sabatoge Rene's job and to never call him again. So, I have never called again.

SD

It is not a matter of changing a bad habit for those who grew up in abusive situations. They learned early in life that they need to protect themselves and their families from the outside world. Lieing became the way the saved their situation since they were virtually powerless to change it in any other way.

OMG you poor thing you are dealing with an addict. You need some techniques to deal with a person such as that. I recommend that you find an Al-Anon meeting near you and use that group as a support group. There is a Narc-Anon organization but there are things (I hear) about that group that are not so positive. You will be better off with Al-Anon and developing a support group that will help you through this situation.

Sadly neither you or the children are safe. You may not fear your H but those he associates with are very destructive.

As you have seen (rene's boss et al) will be of no help to you. You need the support of people who are facing the same or similar situation as you. If Rene will not get help and more than likely he will not, you must get help for you and your children. It is time for you to work in the best interests of your kids. Please seek help through Al-Anon. At the very least go to a few meetings and find out what they have to offer. Just go to Al-Anon.com to find the nearest meeting to you.
H

[color:"green"]Hi there!

What motivated me to be honest was the fact that I was afraid to be caught in a lie again. When my hubby found out about all the lies I felt so humiliated and very sub-human. I used that feeling to keep me honest.

My opinion on what the spouse can do to encourage honesty would be this; be kind and provide a “safe place” for the truth to come out. That’s what helped me; my hubby created a safe atmosphere for me each time he wanted questions answered. As I realized this it was much easier for me to give details that he asked for. He wasn’t abusive, pissy, mean, etc. Sure he was upset, but he didn’t let that dominate the conversation.

As for the other questions, I don’t know how to advise you on them. I think if I kept lying it would have seriously hurt our relationship, it definitely would have made recovery a lot tougher to achieve.
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Hi SD
Just wanted to comment on your experience at AL-ANON. You said that they "were against me trying to control or save him in anyway". I realize I wasn't at the meeting so I don't know their intent. Often what is meant by this kind of advice is that it does no good,.... doesn't work..., to try and control or save the person with an addiction.

Sometimes when we try to control, help, intervene, it actually delays the recovery process. It allows the addict to turn his attention on someone other than himself, to distract himself and the other person from the real issue...his addiction! It allows him to blame someone else instead of working on his issues. "You are nagging too much. Get off my back." Then you start to focus on your faults or your failure to do the "right" thing to help save him, etc. When people stop giving the addict an external target (themselves), the addict finds it harder and harder to look anywhere but inside him/herself.

Sometimes "letting go" and not trying to fix or control, is the most loving thing we can do. It gives them a better shot at recovery...and stops you from drowning along with them! Your husband knows how you feel. He knows his behavior isn't acceptable to you. Start focusing on yourself, nurturing yourself, doing things to get your self-esteem back. That way you are better prepared to move on with your life, with or without him.

Letting go of trying to help or fix one you love is one of the hardest concepts for me. I have to remind myself that this is loving behavior!

Hiker, Thanks I am already attending ALANON. They do not offer NARANON in our town so that is why I am trying ALANON.

Heartmending, you are right they were saying the same things you wrote about and they did explain it to me. It makes since. At the same time it is very hard for me to "let go". Logically my brain understands what they are suggesting and why they are suggesting it, but I have that part of me that feels like I can not just sit by and only focus on me while he is actively using drugs. In way I feel like I am giving him permission to use if I try to "let go". But, deep down I do feel like I need to take their advice and try it because for over 5 years I have been trying everything I can possibly think of to get him to leave the drugs alone and it definitely is not working. Instead I am just draining myself emotionally and physically. I am slowly drowning with him and it is not good for either of us and it is definitely not good for my children. They are so innocent and wonderful. They deserve so much more than this.

Thankd again for everyones advice and input. I appreciate it. If you are a praying person prays are also aprreciated.

God Bless,
Stormy

SD

Sorry I have been "away" so long some how I could only read posts and not reply to them...I hope that things are better for you now...
H

H

I am still hanging in there.

Thanks,

Stormy