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Outstanding job, Sleepless!
Continue to protect your son.
You did good.
Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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Sleepless wrote:
==================================
She's trying to be nice (and failing miserably) until I bring our son back to her.
==================================
And therein lies the rub. This is where you need to make sure that you are covered legally.
Ask your lawyer, but my understanding is that BOTH parents have to agree before your son can leave the country with only one parent.
If you have his passport, consider giving to your lawyer for safe keeping. Make sure that he/she understands your wishes regarding your son.
It is very important that you understand that your son could very easily become a pawn in your wife's game. As the family hero, you simply can not let that happen.
All the best,
Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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Boy you're up late Gimble. Where do you live??
I talked with the lawyer today. She came highly recommended, so I feel pretty confident.
It's easier to talk to the aliens when their thought patterns are WAY outer limits. Could I drive her nuts enough that the other man won't want to be around her? Just a thought.
I had a lot of Hmms and Uh Huhhhs. Just wound her up and watched her go. She wants to not talk for awhile?? GREAT!
I'll send her short E-Mails about what DS8 and I are doing. I think we'll fly to see DS18 this weekend in California and send a note from there. If she wants to be alone, she can be alone.
Checking out. Get some rest G.
SIS
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Thanks for the encouragement. It seems I should be due an atta boy by now!
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Thanks for the encouragement. It seems I should be due an atta boy by now! You are welcome. You have earned it. It is very hard for a person to wake up one morning and find themselves in a completely new environment, an environment with a very different set of rules than they are accustomed to. It takes time to acclimate and to even be able to accurately assess or observe your new surroundings. These situations make for wobbly knees and unsure paths for even the most quick minded of us. I pushed you hard because I thought you could handle it, and because your son needed a hero - you. When all of this is over with, I think you will find that you have two sons with a new level of admiration for their father. Stick with your plan. Apply the principles from this site to your life and situation, and you will do well. All the best, Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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SleeplessInSeattle, I've been following your story very closely the last week and have to say that I think you are doing great. Doesn't Gimble give great advice? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I would expect some serious ranting and raving when WW finds out about the ticket. I did the same thing to STBXH when I found out he had booked a ticket to see OW. The hate and anger that came from him was unbelievable! Just be prepared for it. I told him too soon ( I shouldn't have told him at all!) and he purchased another one, which I cancelled. So he bought another one. It was a very expensive tug-o-war. (The ticket was actually an additional leg on a trip he had to make anyway so they charged us for every change) At that time I didn't have my own account and didn't take the money out of the joint account..... which I would do if I had it to do over. Point being....she's gonna be mad. Just be ready for it. One thing I can see looking back was that patience would have been my friend. I had a hard time with it. When you're in the middle of the situation, eveything is so life and death. I remember thinking "This one thing could ruin everything if I'm wrong or don't do it right. What if this pushes him away". That's just not the case. Looking back, I could have and should have been more aggressive in my refusal to aide and/or enable his actions. I should have taken ALL the money. I should have turned them in earlier. It is hard to put aside the fears that we have. As a BS I think we tend to believe, even when we know better, that we can do enough to MAKE them come or go. We can't. We can be the lighthouse. We can protect our little ones. We can make a home and a family that is safe and desirable to be in. We can not make a WS come home and be faithful. Neither can we make them go and continue their affair. What we can do is refuse to enable the selfish mind and acts of a WS, we can protect our children and we can fight until our bitter end to save our marriage and family. We can remind ourselves everyday that no action we take to protect ourselves, our children, our family and our money will FORCE a WS away. They are away already. Their choices have put them away from us and our families. All we can do is use the tools at our disposal to change ourselves and to end the A. You are taking some hard but very calculated steps. You should be proud of yourself for standing up for you and your children and fighting to save your marriage. I can't wait to hear how the ticket situation works out! How do you like the change in the weather here? Isn't it great? FIM
Do not ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you are not willing to move your feet.
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FIM. I was hoping to hear from you. Our paths seem to be similar. What a riot about the cancelled ticket. My WW called last night just beside herself. She sounds emotionally exhausted. It was easy for me to stay unaffected by her comments. I hope I'm not enjoying it too much. She also went into hows she thought SH was a quack and that the New York Times had an article yesterday that clarified the Marriage Counseling doesn't work. She said I need to be following the advice on the website by listening to her feelings and not getting defensive. Right now she says she just needs a break for a little while. How convenient to have a break when the OM is coming into town. I can't WAIT for the question, "Did you cancel an airplane ticket?!!" so that I can say "What airplane ticket?" She says she wants to calm things down a bit, and we'll review the state of the divorce when I get back with DS8. I spoke with a lawyer this morning who said don't tell her he's not coming back. Let her find back when she gets back from her trip. That should get a good reaction too!! Hey FIM. If you're ever in Seattle with the kids, I'll buy you a cup of coffee and some hot chocolates so we can share some stories face to face. It might be therapeutic! You know. I still have some hope that she might come to her senses. I just know it's not time yet. That helps me get through the crazy time now. I wish lawyers weren't so expensive! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Keep in touch!
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Sleepless, I totally agree with the lawyer. Don't tell her until she gets back. I remember back when I would come here and write my newest plan of action. I would put in how I was going to tell WH. WAT and Pep would come back and say "JUST DO IT. Don't tell him." Good advice. You do what you need to do. She'll figure it out. Telling her what you are doing to protect your family is going to fall on deaf ears. NO matter what you do right now, it's gonna be wrong. Unless of course you're doing exactly what she wants. And even then, down the road, it'll be wrong for some reason. That's the alien mind. So, do what you need to do and IMHO.... have as much fun with it as you can. I was rereading part of my early story the other day and I did have fun with it. It was still painful...every step. I did enjoy keeping him on his toes though. That's just me though. It is probably a defense and survival mechanism of some sort that we use to get through it. If it works.... use it. We get up to the Childrens Museum about every other month. I can't believe my girls (8 & 10) still enjoy it so much since it's mostly the same every time. But they do. Now the baby, well he's almost 17 months old, is enjoying it too. Good luck to you, Sleepless. Hang in there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> FIM
Do not ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you are not willing to move your feet.
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And by the way, the weather's GREAT. I drove my convertible in today, and my son and I are going to see the Mariners tonight.
I'm hanging in there. I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells now. I'm actively protecting.
Dan
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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oh yeah... I was also going to say.... Chances are she will come to her senses. Affairs just don't usually last. My STBXH had the "woman of his dreams" and he "couldn't believe love could be like that". ***puke*** You know what.... he's back here in Tacoma, begging to move back in now that he has his own place, asking me out to dinner every night, setting up counseling with SH and telling me he just KNOWS he can be a better man than ever before and that we can have a great marriage. Granted, it's been a whole two weeks of NC with his OW and he's sure everyone must notice the whole new him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I think most of them do come around to some extent at some point. It may be a matter of whether or not you are still able to be there when she does. For me, five (known) affairs are too much. A year with this last OW is too much. His driving to Nebraska to meet her parents with her in February is too much. Maybe had I followed a better Plan B after my Plan A, I wouldn't have been quite so done. She probably will come around. Protect yourself and your kids and your money....and your love for her. That last one can be the hardest one of all. FIM
Do not ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you are not willing to move your feet.
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Aww Gee FIM. I didn't realize all of your details. I was more hung up on my problems. I'm sure my WW's affair with a 19 year old won't last too long. She doesn't want me to tell the world about the 19 year old. She must not be THAT proud of it. It's nice to know that people can change. I hope your XH can. I don't blame you for protecting your heart, kids and finances. I'm a pretty forgiving guy, but I'm going to need to see some REAL changes, not just promises. If you're XH was not interested in getting back together and treating you better, what else could be his motive. What does he gain from sticking his neck out? It needs to be a whole new him. My father in law told my wife that he never should have divorced her mother. It was a mistake. It's not my heart that was broken, or my back that was driven over, but as long as the last affair WAS the last, it could be OK. Maybe he finally hit rock bottom when he discovered how empty life is without his beautiful wife and 3 loving kids. Boy this was a rambler! Just leave a little glimmer of hope in your heart. Just in case. Thanks for being there FIM. If you want, send XH up here, and I could smack him around a little bit, or at least tell him how to treat a woman. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Sleepless, I didn't mean to dump my stuff on ya <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I was just using it to point out some of my own mistakes. To answer your question though... I'm not sure what his reasons are for this wanting to come back. Guilt as he realizes what he has done is a big one I'm sure. He didn't just leave the marriage. In October he dismissed the divorce he started in July. The very next day, after telling our kids he was staying and we were going to be a happy family AND letting them burn the divorce papers..... he left to live with his 23 year old OW in Texas. He didn't send money. He didn't work from August, when he was discharged, until a week and a half ago. He was getting unemployment but keeping it all and spending it on him and the OW. He would come back for a visit and tell the kids he was coming back for good.... and never come back. So, I think a lot is guilt. I think he is realizing what he did to all of us, himself and OW included. Part of it may be that I turned them both in to their commanding officer and there is currently a full blown JAG investigation going on. (He is a reservist who was deployed to Guantanamo and she was active duty serving there) Really, I don't know. I do know that every time he has cheated he has been sorry and changed for a while. With him, it is a character issue. It's a matter of us viewing marriage and family differently. I don't believe he'll ever totally change that part of him and frankly I am not willing to chance my heart and my childrens future on a proven serial cheater. He probably has realized how empty his life has become without us. Good. I just want it to help him be a better father at this point. YOU on the other hand have a good chance of saving your family and making a better marriage than ever. There is much more than a glimmer there for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It'll be hard, but I think that by taking the strong stance you are and by actively disabling the affair, you can do it. FIM
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I didn't mean to dump my stuff on ya I was just using it to point out some of my own mistakes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> You didn't dump. I was just interested in the person who's been helping me with my family, and it sounded like you had similar experiences. 23???? That's almost 19 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I can see you've thought this out long and hard, and you obviously know him very well. So I refer to my original offer to smack him around a bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I have some retired Special Forces guys that can teach him the meaning of the word respect! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> JUST KIDDING... not about the special forces guys. Actually one the afforementioned friends came home to find his wife actively involved with one of his officers. The brutal beating provided by my friend essentially offset the officer's bad behavior in the eyes of the military, and they both got off on probation. That was 20 years ago. The military does frown on that type of behavior. Like you said. When you're in the middle of something, it's hard to see the big picture. Since I've pulled myself out of the middle and backed away from the "being totally nice in spite of what she does" to protecting my sons and myself. BTW, whoever says that a divorce will not affect an 18 year old is an ignorant boob. I've had my son come to me crying twice in the last two months. Just my little sidebar for anyone reading. Having said all that. If the love of Christ can change the heart of an Evil tax collector like Paul, bring the dead back to life and forgive our numerous sins, his love can certainly change your husband's heart. That, however, would require your husband to accept that love, so keep an eye out for it. You'll know it if it's there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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More Alien Talk too good NOT to share. WW writes: Maybe I am a bit skeptical about a lot of things right now, but having you hang up on me during our last 2-3 conversations, doesn't make me feel any better. I am trying very hard to not completely lose it with you, and I AM trying with you - why else do you think I call YOU 1-2 times a day. I could go without it but I don't want you to think that I didn't try. But I don't want to give you false hope or mixed messages... these are 2 very important points that I need you to remember. I DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE FALSE HOPES AND I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU MIXED MESSAGES so, if you feel confused about something ask me.
Some clarifications to our conversations - you did not say that I had to give up the people in my life for 90 days or any duration - you said I can't have them in my life... I didn't at the time or now find that acceptable. Also, ss I said this am - stop trying to "set the stage" to fall in love- YOU can control YOUR emotions and YOUR actions, not mine, so I'd say get off the dime and start following your website - really- and then we may see some results - so far - I liked you a lot better before you started reading all those "theories" and talking to all his (SH) successful cases.. Ok with that....
My goal in trying to work with you is to improve our relationship for our kids in or out of this marriage- if we fall in love then that is a bonus - I can't make that the end goal since it would be too contrived...remember love isn't a choice, so if it happens great, if it doesn't I don't want you to be disappointed. I have told you for years that I don't want to be married, but I am willing to make our relationship better.... I feel like that HAS to be the goal... then we can discuss where we are after a period of time (See below)- but I want you to understand upfront that if I find that I am still not "in love" with you even if our relationship is better, I want us to be able to divorce per our previous agreements. Can you accept that?
So what I am willing to propose is that once I figure out what I have to do as the next steps to keep the divorce papers in play, which maybe you could help me with - since I don't know what you did - you didn't give me a copy like you said you would this am- and I don't know what the impact of you actions are.... I am WILLING to wait on picking the final court date. I am saying that it does not have to be at 91 days... However I don't want us to keep trying to fall in love for 6months, 9 months, 1 year... endless. I want to set a date (maybe like September or October) where we can assess where we are... then at that point we file or not. Tell me what you think. She is completely out in left field! Beyond the fence with Bob Uecker! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Sleepless wife said:
=========================
remember love isn't a choice, so if it happens great, if it doesn't I don't want you to be disappointed.
=========================
You know, that is news to me. Most learned people on this planet consider just the opposite to be true.
How convenient for her.
Maybe you can find some nice links disproving her assertion regarding love being a choice. Don't educate, but send her some truth. She decides whether or not to read them, don't push. The fact is, she is making a choice by choosing not to love you.
As for the translation;
"Dear practically non-existent husband. I am trying really hard to make myself feel better about you by calling when I don't want to, but you keep interrupting my plan to feel good about me.
I want you to control your emotions toward me so that I can do what I want without regard for any pain that my actions may cause you.
Further, I have no intention of falling in love with you by making a choice that I won't fall in love with you because love is not a choice, except on Tuesdays and that is right out. Besides all that, I have other plans.
So, let's set the divorce date at some point in the future when you can plan to be okay with me choosing not to fall in love with you even though I said it might happen but it won't because it isn't a choice except for choosing not to. I don't plan to do anything differently except plan my life like I was single, but I know that you will be okay with that because I am trying, but I don't want to give you mixed signals. Okay?
Since you never stated that I couldn't have other people in my life for 90 days, you said that I could never have affairs with other men, and I never agreed to that and I don't now.
If any of that leaves you confused, then have Gimble translate"
:-)
Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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BUT WAIT There's MORE! This one really floored me. I didn't have time at work to read the whole E-Mail and responded with... Wow that's a lot. I'll try to finish reading it here after I get these things done. I will read it.
BS
"The text of her E-Mail followed"
She replied to my one line with Ok- I re-read it and it seems ok- but I have to correct on thing - I think we need to move the date for evaluating where we are up to sometime mid August so that I can PICK the date for September - hopefully at a time when I would be back there. In reality - that gives you the "6 months" that you asked for....
I am willing to try - but BS - you know who I am- don't fool yourself. WW I didn't WRITE ANYTHING to be OK WITH!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> What is she TALKING ABOUT?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by SleeplessNSeattle; 04/21/05 02:20 AM.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Ooops, I almost forgot.
Quote:
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... then at that point we file or not. Tell me what you think.
===========================
"Wife, I have no intention whatsoever of divorcing you. I will continue to fight for our marriage. I am ready and able to address any marital issues with you, just as soon as you commit to no contact with other man, and commit to working with me on our marriage."
Have you discussed your wife's actions with your sons yet? How wide is the exposure?
All the best,
Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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Quote:
===================================
Ok- I re-read it and it seems ok- but I have to correct on thing - I think we need to move the date for evaluating where we are up to sometime mid August so that I can PICK the date for September - hopefully at a time when I would be back there. In reality - that gives you the "6 months" that you asked for....
I am willing to try - but BS - you know who I am- don't fool yourself. WW
===================================
"Dear wife, I have agreed to nothing, so I am unsure as to the source of the agreement you mention above.
Please do be aware, that I have no intention of divorcing you. I am fighting for our marriage. I am ready and able to address any and all issues relating to our marriage, just as soon as no contact is in force with other man."
Learn your script. Refer to it often.
Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.
-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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One thing that stood out in your W's email is that she said 'remember love isn't a choice' or something like that.
There's lots of exceptional information refuting that and saying that in fact love is a choice. We can choose to love for all the right reasonS. You won't have to look very far to find lots to back that up. If she goes through life looking for that feeling of love that isn't a choice then she may spend many years flitting from man to man in search of the 'one' that probably doesn't exist except in the man she was married to and the father of her child...ie. you.
Love is not just a 'feeling', it is a decision.
She is using flawed, selfish thinking.
Do a google search for Love is a choice and you will find lots of resources from which to make a case.
Last edited by Trix; 04/21/05 01:08 PM.
Married 1976
Me:BS
Him:FWS
MB Weekend March 2003
2 S's: '77 & '80, 1 D: '82
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Hey Gimble! I think I'M in recovery, because that's how I interpreted it too. She's just so far gone, I don't see much hope. I want her to be happy too someday, but I think she's had too much emotional damage. That doesn't mean I'm afraid to set limits! She's going to get all kinds of those soon. I need to leave the small glimmer of hope open until the gavel falls as SH says. If Steve Harley is watching, my lawyer charges $220/hour. YIKES!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Is that enough??? I'm upping my consulting rates!! Anybody have an airplane they need repaired? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Trix, you're right. I did the Google search. I've seen the decision to love is a choice. What I never realized is that you could have the loving feeling again with the proper application. I re-iterated my belief about the choice part today in my response to her. If this divorce goes through, I don't want her teaching our boys that you just need to find that feeling. They can't go through life being that unhappy too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by SleeplessNSeattle; 04/21/05 01:09 PM.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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