I'll start contacting her a couple times a day. I sent her airplane pictures in an E-Mail today. On Sunday I sent her a picture of the boys at the batting cage with a nice note.

I'll add my voice to the mix too. I haven't been talking much when she calls. I just let her talk. I was thinking of getting her a gift certificate for a massage since she's going to be alone for Mother's day.

I have the problem that I am lying to her still about having access to her E-Mail (she asked me point blank). I wonder if I just keep that secret for now since she's revealed everything I discovered already.

Last thing. She said that she was going to therapy for herself since she's feeling so bad. I almost jumped out of my seat when I heard that!! I doubt the person is marriage oriented over there, but who knows. I assume I shouldn't encourage that in anyway when she sounds depressed, but I want confirmation.

My understanding is that the therapy she would get there is more divorce oriented. Ask Bob Pure, he can give you better input on that.

As for the email access. I can't tell you what to do on that other than to side step a direct question from her. With access, you have an idea of what is going on that is slightly more certain than reading tea leaves. From a tactical point of view, giving away one's battlefield intelligence is not a good idea. You might not want to lie, but you sure don't give away your intelligence.

You have to decide whether it bothers you or not. It doesn't bother me, and I am a real stickler for honesty. If I am in a fist fight, I most certainly will not tell my opponent which upper cut I am about to throw :-)

What I have advised others in similar situations is simply to say NO when asked to divulge their sources. That saves having to lie, and leaves the wayward spouse wondering.

Wife: "How did you find out about that?????"
You: "I am not saying."
Wife: "Do you have access to my email???"
You: "I'm not saying."
Wife: "So you are saying that you don't have access."
You: "I'm not saying."

Again, that is up to you.

All the best,
Gimble

He is physically with me, but there is no signed custody agreement or revelation that my son is not going back. After that. Poor choice of words.

It's the possible truths that are laced in there that threw me off. I realize she's writhing from guilt and wants me to support her divorce decision. I'm sure it's painful to watch a loved one come down from drugs or alcohol. That's why I'm shielding my 8 year old from it, and reassuring the 18 year old who's seeing the whole thing!

That's a good analogy. I also won't tell a drowning victim I'm about to rescue I'm going to pop them in the nose before I subdue them and haul their butt to shore. Good analogy.

I danced a little bit. Could have said, it's not important maybe. I'll work on it.

Had a talk with DS8 at dinner tonight. I asked him how his conversation went with mom. He said she was sad because he told her he didn't want to come back and that he liked it here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

I found out tonight she changed her password on her Email! Awww! That was some constructive reading.

I did NOT coach him on this.

I said that made mommy sad didn't it? He said he fixed it and changed his mind later.

She's leaving for a trip this morning. I bet she's just freaked out!

Quote:
==================================
Had a talk with DS8 at dinner tonight. I asked him how his conversation went with mom. He said she was sad because he told her he didn't want to come back and that he liked it here.
==================================

An 8 year old knows the difference between stable surroundings and the unstable atmosphere of a person that is currently 'flighty'.

No surprise on the email.

Quote:
==================================
She's leaving for a trip this morning. I bet she's just freaked out!
==================================

One can always hope.... No fun intended. She has to begin to face the consequences of her actions. Make sure you are not as available as normal.

Have you launched any rockets yet? Spent the evening building?

All the best,
Gimble

Sns,

You need to take the high road and a hard stance. Don't play into her guilt or babble. She wants you to do her dirty work for her. If you are 1/2 as detestable as she says, she s/b the one to get the D.

Nope she is selfish and very much into the A frame of mind. Your best bet w/b to secure yourself and your finances and your children's custody. Paint her the color she currently is and make sure the children are in a safe environment. Being with her unsupervised is not healthy. Even if she is their mother. She alludes to ending it (her life) but not the A. She claims you are keeping her prisoner and prefers the company of strangers when just the opposite is true.

You should not be hurt by babble. Only learn from the truth. We need to help you keep your spirits up and you need to be focused on reality.

When she cries look the other way and then pay attention how long her cries really carry on, it maybe shorter than you think.

JMHO,
L.

Your WW sounds so much like my FWH.

He has been miserable most of his life...the inner demons...the low self-esteem...and he blamed me.

That is what I hear in her convo's with you...the blame. She is striking out at you and making you the cause of all her problems in this world.

How fast a learner is she?

When my H moved out I told him, and I think he found out, that he took that unhappiness with him. The kids and I weren't the cause of his unhappiness, heck, we probably kept him out of the deep gutter of despair many a time, but he looked around at what in his life was causing his unhappiness and stopped at me, the kids, the house (the mess) and blamed everyone but himself.

It's hard to face the unhappiness that lives inside of you.

I said to my H, "I hope when we are gone you can find your happiness." And also, LBing away, I said, "When we're gone, who will you blame then?"

Her emails are going over and over the same ground. You are the CAUSE and the EFFECT is HER misery.

Perhaps in the next correspondence you have with her you can simply state. "You are repeating yourself in every correspondence, I get it that I am the cause of your unhappiness. You are Ding me, I will be out of your life, this is your time to be happy!"

YOu cannot MAKE her happy, just like you are not in CHARGE of her misery. The stuff she was spewing was her own guilt, and the bad feelings from all the choices SHE has made. Is she in IC? Perhaps you can suggest that too, that she has some things to work out around the D and could use some one to talk with?

SiS... suggestion for you: avoid lying. It rarely does any good. The costs almost always outweigh the benefits.

Idealistic, yeah. And I can see you aren't devious, just needing all the help you can get. But really, let the truth be your ally in everything.

GC

I wanted to launch them in California because there was so much space, so I don't know how the TSA would feel about transporting rockets to California even without engines. But come to think about it, I'm just going to get the stuff to do it here. DS8 and I need to have some fun. Big brother will like it this weekend too.

WW didn't talk to me at all yesterday. I gave her a call 10 minutes ago on her cel to suprise her and sound nice and cheerful. She'll be back in town Sunday for the day to play a tennis match and see DS8, then take the redeye back to DC for business.

Here comes the 2x4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She asked me to make a phonecall to her tennis coach captain and tell her to get a backup in case the flight is cancelled etc. I said that was easy. (I know I know I shouldn't have done it. Being too helpful!) She asked if she would owe me something. No nothing. Talk to you later I said.

I may be unavailable when she tries to call next. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Life without me should be obvious soon. Should I rub her back when she comes out for the day? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

That is clear. I'm in the process of having an attorney prepare new docs to secure DS8 with me and appropriate finances.



Further exposure? I'm certainly revealing the divorce application to everyone. The A to a limited circle. If she tries to contest my terms to the A, there will be Psych evals, witnesses to testify to my ability to parent showing she's been gone from DS8's significant events for the last 2 years due to job. It will also take much more of "her" money than is currently on the table. I would still like the Psych eval even if he's going for the summer.



She doesn't like to be exposed. Get to close to anyone, except the OM19! That worked out well!!

I do need you guys to keep me focused during this time. I'm a naturally caring person, but need to remove myself from her care for her to see how good she had it. And maybe she'll never see.

Thanks O

That's really helpful to hear someone who was there before. Sometimes it's hard to maintain hope in a reconciliation.



I know I can't make her happy. I've told her that. She said she tried for 10 years. But she only believes in doing it herself. She needs to hit rock bottom before she knows she can't do it by herself. When she finds DS8 is coming back, she'll know. She claims to be seeking IC in Europe. Hopefully it will address her unhappiness and not focus so much on encouraging the D.

I had a great reply for you graycloud, but I got logged off <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I agree that in most cases the truth is most beneficial. In this case, the truth could temporarily jeopardize the emotional safety of my DS8. When that is no longer an issue, I can afford to be fully truthful.

If/when WW wants to reconcile, I will reveal my deceptions and ask for her forgiveness.

I am the nicest, friendliest, most truthful person you'll ever meet. However, I have the realization that if someone ever threatened my family (wife and sons), It would be unpleasant.

In the case of my wife posing a potential threat to my sons emotionally, I can rationalize lying to her, but it still twinges in my stomach when I do it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Can you LB is she starts to point the finger? That's the beautiful part...you CAN do anything you want. But I'll bet you don't want to be the type of person that withdraws from ANYONE's lovebank. SOme possible things to say to her...

"I hope I wasn't as bad as you say I was."

"Wow, no wonder you want to get away from me."

"I hope it's different with the next man."

"You are a wonderful person, how could you stand someone treating you like that for so long?"

"So now that you've decided to D, how are you holding up? What role do I play?"

"I'm sorry I made your life so unbearable."

"How are you going to be happy again? Or were you ever happy before?"

"How will it be different with the next guy?"

This line of questioning gets her to think about her part in the M and what she will bring to next (and past) R's.
It's funny what happens when you SEEM to agree with her. You don't have to agree with her about the revisionist history, just agree that is the way SHE sees it. If she is not trying hard to convince you (her?) about this truth, then she has to REALLY look at it and see if it is what she beleives in. If she REALLY believed you were at fault, she wouldn't have to try to convince you every time she's speaks/emails you. Just say, "OK, you beleieve I was at fault for the demise of our M, lets move on..." and watch how her tone will turn...

Good point on the edit. Made my point a little too strongly I guess.

I really like the psychological conversational method you've proposed. I've been able to sincerely ask her feelings, and she seemed receptive to the conversation when we did. She said she felt closer to me than she had in awhile. The line of questioning is sympathetic yet re-directs the conversational flow to her self analysis.

Maybe I'll get a chance to do that on Sunday when she visits for the day.

I bought model rockets to build with my son tonight.

I'm going home.

I heard tonight WW doesn't like being called a WW. Pretty funny. BTW, I don't call her that. She just has heard the MB definition.

WW talked to DS8 tonight. I told him to share what he did today and how much fun he's having. We built a rocket today for launching on Friday. I bought two more to build before the weekend. I need to find the launcher!

I spoke with WW for a few minutes.

Me: So what's up. How's Scotland?
WW: Well I'm really tired because I cry until 3a.m. and then get up at 6 to go to work.
Me: Oh, you should really get some rest.

WW: I'm not eating, oh well, maybe I'll die.
Me: You should eat something.

Me: I got your divorce summons. I have 20 days to reply.
WW: OK

Me: I went to get checks today for my account since you took me off our account. They don't have temp checks anymore, so I have to go back to get cashiers checks.

WW: So what does that mean. Do you want something from me?
Me: Nope, just telling you about my day.

WW: Well you can take money out of savings. I've had to do that too.
Me: OK. (Of course I thought if you hadn't spent $2000 on boy toy airplane tix, it wouldn't be so bad for you.

She's so foggy. She told DS18 not to talk to me anymore because he is HER son. I told DS18 she's really tired and not thinking clearly. I'll always be your dad (I adpoted him) and call me anytime. Mom should be feeling better in a few weeks. She told him it would be better if she killed herself. I told him to discount that for now.

Anyway. We'll see how the next few days go.





WW:

Morning, Sleepless.

Depression is standard fare for a wayward spouse.

I am glad you built a rocket with young son. Pyrotechnics of any type are usually a big deal for 8 year olds :-)

God bless,
Gimble

^^^ Bump

Any update?

I expect the depression G, but I don't like the waiting. Typical man... I want to be doing something. I'm not making myself available to WS, but she's also not contacting me as much. I guess she's still lamenting the loss of her true love... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Update today. WW left message on work phone to tell me my comments about my finances made sense, and I should keep the large rent check that's coming in instead of putting it in her account. That was so thoughtful of her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Is it normal for the BS to lose interest in the WS? I've been guarding against other women filling my love tank. I still take hugs from friends, but you know. Do I have to guard at all against becoming apathetic to WW?

Cat - How's the wedding planning going? Looks like it's coming up quickly. I hope it's going to he a happy event still. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SIS

Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
==============================
Is it normal for the BS to lose interest in the WS? I've been guarding against other women filling my love tank. I still take hugs from friends, but you know. Do I have to guard at all against becoming apathetic to WW?
==============================

Of course it is. That is why you don't stay in Plan A forever. Plan B comes along eventually to protect what you have left before it is all gone.

Be good,
Gimble