have you run it by your attorney? You don't want her doing the parental alienation line on you...

No badmouthing or criticizing - and there's a lot of that in this so I hope you haven't sent it yet...

If he shares this message with your W, she will call "B.S." on it (doesn't matter if it's true) and it will create more conflict.

I sympathize, oh how I sympathize. Just be extra careful about anything that might make him feel like a pawn.

GC

Hi, Sleepless.

I do agree that the 18 year old needs to learn some lessons, but I think you need to be very careful in what you say to him, especially in a written form.

For the time being, keep your cards close to your chest. You don't know who might be looking over your shoulder.

Cocky will get you busted. Don't worry, the time will come when you get to strut, but not yet.

All the best,
Gimble

Hi Sleepless!!

I'd be very careful defending your actions or point of view with your oldest son... hes obviously very torn and feels stuck in the middle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

WW lawyer may try to have the courts view it as an attempt to place him against his mum, but perhaps more importantly he may feel hes being forced into a corner where he has to choose between you.
I would suggest you simply say its ok for him to say no to his mum or YOU when he feels uncomfortable. You'll love him anyway with no conditions.
How do you feel Sleepless if he needs to or wants to come home?????? If you are ok with it maybe let him know.

Letting him know you are unable to fund his airfare I think is very good.... eg consequence of ww actions, no judgemental comments just facts.

I'd simply state your sole purpose was to keep DS8 safe until ww was no longer putting her boyfriend ahead of his brothers & HIS welfare, no arguments etc, just a statement of intent.

Outcome of court hearing, impact it may have etc then your wishes and love etc.

Do you know if there ARE any legal problems if you expose to US gov etc etc??????

Really hope things go well Sleepless with the evaluation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey hes HOME!! I was trying so hard to keep a smile on my face when I went to pick him up......very hard he came out on crutches, left eye bandaged, broken ribs, right leg in a frame, man sutures in leg & chest - a shock but I kept smiling, hes home he safe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sleepless, I'm not going to give you advice, because my life is about as messed up as anyone's can get. I just want to give you a gentle nudge to be careful with what you put in writing/email. Remember, I have my WH's signed letter stating he will no longer financially support me and the kids. It's in a folder of things I will take to court in a few weeks.

Please be careful.

Hi, Sleepless.

How are things?

Gimble

Hi, Sleepless!

I wasn't going to bump your thread, but I have this problem with curiosity...

I hope everything is going well for you.

How about an update?????

Oops. Was I strutting? Sorry. I did get DS18 to return my E-Mails last week on Friday. He wants to come home and get his car. I said we needed to talk a little more first. His first message said he had lost all respect for me because I notified our friends and her coworkers of the affair. He eventually cooled down in his second message when I outlined the obvious facts, and asked him what he would have done.

SH is going to talk to the parenting evaluator and talk about me, but not WW unless she signs a release.

I'm glad he's home! Take care of him. We appreciate all that he's done.

I appreciate your point of view.

Sleepless

Gimble, Pebbles, et al.

I took a short trip to SE Alaska with a friend to Sea kayak, drink a little beer, eat a lot of fish, and bond with an old friend. We even snuck in a 2.5 mile 3000 foot climb hike the day we left.

I was struck by two very cute young girls we met on the trip. They were both so full of life and smiling and optimistic. Don't get any ideas you guys, they were 19 and 22 respectively. But their spirit was refreshing, and they had great lives ahead of them. They have not yet been mired in what we have here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I discovered my aunt was a parenting evaluator in Chicago, so I'll call her tonight for her perspective.

DS18 mentioned WW is getting counseling. He also said," I hate to admit it dad, but she's been a lot more relaxed now that she's not worried about what you're doing." I told him that it was OK to report that. He said he wanted to have a good relationship with both of us. I told him I would like that too.

My mom and dad are coming out to do a makeover on DS8's room. It needs a little attention. He needs a new bed, and need to clean out some old toys.

I've been killing time working on cars, cleaning out garbage from the basement.....

No contact with DS8 today. Called twice, but no answer. I left a message.

I'm doing OK, but just sitting and waiting for the next step. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
===========================
His first message said he had lost all respect for me because I notified our friends and her coworkers of the affair.
===========================

That is a common reaction, but it never ceases to interest me. Here is a rhetorical question for you; why is it that humans will condone illicit activity, while getting really angry at a thief or a purse snatcher? Those crimes generally have a far lesser impact on a person's life than an affair.

Quote:
==============================
SH is going to talk to the parenting evaluator and talk about me, but not WW unless she signs a release.
==============================

Outstanding.

Your oldest will defend his mother until he really understands what is going on, and that is a ways off. Don't rely on him at all for now. A healthy distance right now, is the 'healthy' thing for you to do. Let me spell it out. He doesn't need to spend a lot of time observing your actions, or reactions right now. Don't include him in on your plans. He is not a reliable confidant. After the evaluation, you can return to mostly normal.

I am glad you enjoyed the trip to AK.

Have a good time with your parents.

God bless,
Gimble

I was within a trip to Home Depot to changing the locks on the doors, but I think that would upset the courts right now since the judge ruled we should have access to both of the residences.

I keep thinking about how what a wonderful, happy, open, sharing, caring, adventurous boy DS8 is, and I can't bear to see that spirit crushed. All I hear anymore is that, "Gee, your a man. The cards are really stacked against you!" I wonder if I should just plan on hardly ever seeing him again, and plan on watching his spirit be crushed? Maybe I can pick up the pieces when he visits me sometimes.

Apparently WW had a similar spirit when she was young, before her spirit was crushed.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I just searched on this today. Very interesting.

Thanks dewt

Sleepless!

Hi, Sleepless.

No one's spirit has to get crushed, even if the courts do something stupid. You can still be the best Dad any son ever had, even if it is with limited resources.

Even so, I am still praying that the courts will do the right and just thing, and that your wife will wake up.

God bless,
Gimble

Today I spoke with DS8 again. He was very excited to hear me. He had all sorts of unusual questions that WW had obviously been feeding him that were awkward to answer without getting into legal testimony details. My wife obviously is NOT concerned about protecting our children from the legal activities. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"Mommy says your family is saying mean things about her." "Mommy says I should stay in Europe with her and then we can move back in a year or she won't be able to see me anymore."

So today, her attorney called my attorney to file restraining orders so I won't respond to these little gems. I'm afraid I flamed a little bit, and let my lawyer know my personal opinion, firmly, but politely.

I'm not impressed with WW's lawyers apparent disregard for my sons' well being! At least I can understand my WW needs help!

Hi, Sleepless.

Let me see if I understand this.

Your wife filed to keep you from talking to your son?

I hope that you are recording all of these transactions.

Also, STOP FALLING FOR THE BAIT !!

God bless,
Gimble

Oh yeah! Wait a minute! What bait??? She's a psycho!! There's no bait.

Her lawyer is an evil person. Placing two children in the middle of a custody battle. I'm sorry, I had little enough respect for lawyers before. This woman is evil to believe it's OK to use children against the parents. I responded to my lawyer that I want:

DS18 to be able to retract his statment so he does not have to be enviscerated in court for his explicit lies and kept out of the middle in all future discussions!!

I want WW to agree to let the parent evaluator to speak to SH or sign a statement explicitly refusing it.

If I have to respond to one more piece of propoganda fed to DS8 or DS18, I want consequences.

I want WW to PAY for counseling for the two boys in the U.S. with a counselor agreed to by the lawyers.

In the words of my grandmother, I'm so mad, I could SPIT!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I can understand that my WW is an alien, but this lawyer is evil.

I don't like watching my kids get manipulated like pawns on a chessboard. That pisses me off. Papa bear doesn't like stupid people threatening his cubs!

Hi, Sleepless.

Her lawyer sounds like she has morals equal to your wife's right now. That does not surprise me.

Please make sure that your lawyer is equally talented in opposite measure to your wife's lawyer.

If not, then retain more aggressive counsel.

You have to face the fact that your wife intends to win AT ANY COST. Stop being surprised when she does exactly what is expected of her.

The fact that you 'take the bait' tells me that you still don't believe what I have said to you repeatedly.

Your wife, in her current state of mind, is capable of *** anything ***. Face it, believe it, and you won't be so readily taken in.

Don't get angry, document every single action.

You can get through this intact Sleepless, but you are male, that means you have to do it better and cleaner than she does. That sucks, and it isn't fair, but that is the way it is. Deal with it.

Go to the gym, do some free weights, or learn to box. Either kill the steel, or learn how to deal with a bloody nose. Learn to deal with your anger/pain constructively. Get steely-eyed and hard as nails.

All the best,
Gimble

I wrote a message to my lawyer instead. Here is her reply.



I didn't even swear. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My exercise right now is rebuilding the front suspension on my MGB. All of the rubber bushings are rotted out so I'm upgrading them to polyurethane racing bushings for a tighter suspension. I've got one bolt to knock out of there to finish the job. I get to hammer steel and torque wrenches. My body is still recovering from my 5 mile hike on Saturday, so I relaxed on the other exercise for awhile.

I guess I would like to feel I deserve some righteous anger at this point. Maybe surprised was the wrong word. I'm not really surprised, just angry that they would use the kids. I find that deplorable in a human being.

My lawyer is good. Well respected in the system. Has contacts for good evaluators. Her lawyer is not known in the local courts, and doesn't appear to have done much child custody work from what my lawyer has seen. She files improper paperwork with the courts. She's kind of like a bull in a china shop. Clumsy. They have not documented one black mark against me in any of their paperwork, yet I've been able to establish witnesses to WW behavior and document that behavior with her own E-Mails between the OM and WW. I don't think I mentioned that here before since I didn't want to reveal cards before they were played in court.

I have about 100 E-Mails between WW and OM refuting at least 4 lies in her court documents. She admitted to physical abuse, having a lover, too much travel for work, wanting to be "alone" (without DS8), and wanting to kill herself, drinking multiple bottles of wine with a 19 year old in the states, hiding the affair from coworkers and her DS18, collusion for deception between her and her mother,... and so much more. All of these things she denied in her court papers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Zowie! I think that's good documentation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Looks good. I got custody of my kids because I had so much documentation, as well as the fact that her attorney was horrible. During questioning, her attorney walked me right into questions I WANTED to answer!! Here was a former Vietnam Ranger as a judge, and her attorney asked me why I retired last June so early, if I had such a promising career? So, as she opened the door for me to talk about my career, how I had moved up so fast, how it was all of my adult life, that while on the last deployment, my wife started an affair in my house, shipped my kids off to her mother's house in another state...and then moved out away from the kids and I after I got back to be with OM...I had to retire to take care of my family. The judge was glaring at my wife by the end of my testimony.

I sat back wondering "what the heck was that?" I felt like I should have been paying her too, she was helping my case as much as my attorney.

You look good, SS. Gonna be tough for her. And with this attorney she has, she wont know what to do until it is too late.

In His arms.