Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
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I met her yesterday. She didn't have to run around to get a passport, and she's in a pretty high rent neighborhood, so I would seriously doubt this was her first time.

She seemed to be in her late 40s, and lectures at the University as a guest lecturer on the subject of parenting evaluations.
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Good deal. I just wanted to be sure that the trip itself wasn't going to fog her up to the point that she couldn't do a proper evaluation.

God bless,
Gimble

My thought too. Although her price surprised me, I didn't hesitate to pay it based on her credentials. Both my wife and I had to mail a retainer of $2000, but then WW asked if the evaluator could just stay in the extra room of her apartment. My lawyer, the parenting evaluator and I thought that would be inappropriate. Somehow it didn't occur to WW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Now she wants to be cheap?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

AWWW things were going so well with S18, but I checked the computer this morning and the folder with the files in it was deleted!! I had hoped he wouldn't stoop that low. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

No worry about the data, it's in my lawyers hands and on my disk at work.

I had a nice talk with one of WW coworkers and our friend. His wife had very similar behavior patterns as his wife, and she finally left him. During the divorce, he tried to minimize the exposure to the kids and let her have custody and money. He looked me squarely in the eye and said DON"T DO IT. He said WW had contacted him for a lawyer, and he had encouraged her to find another way to resolve it if she could. She didn't try and hired a dog trainer instead. I thanked him for trying, and promised to keep him up to date.

I called DS8 today and WW picked up the phone. She didn't sound very good. Her voice was hollow and emotionless. She didn't know it was me until I talked. I was cheerful and just asked for DS8. DS8 told me about the new tricks he learned on the Nintendo game he was playing. He didn't talk long, but he sounded genuinely happy to hear me. "Hi dad! I'll see you soon! Love you." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, I need a Plan B letter that will pass my lawyer's muster. Any suggestions??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Sleepless.

Ouch! Sorry to hear that your son deleted the files. Well, at least you know how much you can trust him when it comes to things like this. I'm glad your lawyer has copies - smart move.

Good! Too bad for her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, I'm a little ticked at mean WSs at the moment.

You know that wasn't coached. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It sounds like he's looking forward to seeing his dad.

I was secretly hoping you'd decide to write a Plan B letter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe if you put it in the subject line of your thread somehow, you'll get more advice? There are a lot of Plan B letter specialists around here, as I'm sure you know.

Don't stay up too late, okay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Unless you want to hang out around here in the wee hours and keep the posts bumping to the top with me, LOL. At least I don't have to work tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Sleepless.

Quote:
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AWWW things were going so well with S18, but I checked the computer this morning and the folder with the files in it was deleted!! I had hoped he wouldn't stoop that low.
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As predicted.

Now. Out he goes. He is on his own. For his sake, you strike a boundary, and a damn tough one.

Next, you report what he did to your lawyer and have him deposed. There is a possibility that you can have him arrested since those files were material to a legal action. Ask Brit/Brat to be sure, I am no lawyer.

Anyway you look at it, this young adult should be on his own. He is of legal age. Time for him to go to work and live at his own place.

I was away from home at 14. Check with your lawyer and get his butt out of your home and your sight. Consequences.

Gimble

My lawyer will know today. I forgot to tell her earlier since my WW sent me an E-Mail, and I had to address that first. I guess I'm not surprised, just dissapointed.

I may have a hard time proving he pushed the button and deleted the files to actually file charges, but there's enough circumstantial evidence to feel confident it was him.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It's just one more thing!

Hey Pebbles



That's a good idea. I'll post that one today. Don't be so secret next time..... just blurt it out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I didn't ask, did you get some paparazzi pictures of the wrapped in a towel show the other day? Sounds like deperate housewives!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

At least I don't have to work tomorrow.

Ooohhh. That's just mean! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I made it to bed BEFORE midnight last night. Feel pretty good today.

I had a French college student move in yesterday. He's doing an internship, and I'm taking him to buy a commuter car tonight. Geo Metro for $600. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey everyone. S18 just got to Europe for the summer, and sent me this message.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I have drafted the following reply. How's this for a boundary?

[b]That would depend on you explaining why you deleted all of the E-Mails on the folder on the computer like mom asked you to in her Instant Message to you last week. Why would I help my son who is actively working to discredit me in court? You've gone from the middle to solidly on mom's side. Why do you find it difficult to tell her I couldn't find them or better yet, I won't get in the middle. Explain why I should help you when you are trying to hurt me? When I agreed to help you with your car, I believed that you would be neutral, but it's apparent you are not.

1. "You've gone from the middle to solidly on mom's side."

Assuming that he has gone "solidly on mom's side." You don't exactly know that. Since everything you say can and may be used against you, I would dilute this sentence somewhat, to be sure that your statements represent the facts as they are, not as they seem to be to you.

2. "Why do you find it difficult to tell her I couldn't find them"

Suggesting that he should have lied to his mom. Not the kind of behavior you want your son to have, nor the kind of vulnerability you want to have in court.

3. I like the spirit of your note. I would simply reword it to avoid the two statments above.

4. I have read all of your sitch. I strongly admire your willingness to do the right thing. You are blessed to have God and Gimble as your allies.

Best

no response to the car request. How soon do you go to court?

Any response mentioning his mother could be perceived as YOU trying to pull him back into the middle yourself. Don't fall into that trap.

Tell him it may be a few weeks for you to get to it (you don't have to tell him it will be after the court hearing), if he presses. No explanation. You owe him no explanation.

Sleepless, I wouldn't confront DS18 about this.

I think this could cause you more trouble in the short term.

Let WW think the files are gone.

Thanks for the comments UVA



Good point. I know he was wavering before, and claimed to disrespect WW's actions too. Just stick to the actions noted.



Well, maybe not exactly. They were well hidden in a subdirectory. He would have had to do an advanced search to locate them. I just thought he shouldn't have looked so hard. But, your point is well made. He should just tell her, "I don't think that's right."

Hey KaylaAndy!

I certainly don't want him there again. I've been working to keep him out. It begs the question, Should I have just removed the temptation and deleted the files myself?

I could just stall for two months. He's not coming back until August anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

WST



Hmm. That's why I post here. All good suggestions. I think I may leave it in stealth mode and let WW think the files are gone. Let S18's guilt for his actions eat at him, and just ride it out. There is actually no benefit letting him know I know right now.

Now. On to the Plan B letter. It will go in the mail next week AFTER I have DS8.

The best action you could take in regard to your children is absolutely ZERO conversation about their mother. Make every conversation about them, their interests and what they are going through.

18yr old son is not your buddy, but you must be his - he is a son who can be easily manipulated. It doesn't make him against you. It just means he's as easily manipulated as you USED to be. Treat him compassionately, as any loving father would. You have to remember that you are a father forever, even if your wife refuses to allow the husband part of that equation any more. She can never change that fact that you will ALWAYS be their father, in every sense of the word, no matter how evil and how vindictive she gets.

He'll know where his loyalties need to lie once you are clearly safe territory for him to not feel used.

She's going to have an aweful row to hoe there soon. Because he does feel used. And the nicer you are to him, the more he's going to resent selling his soul to her.

Hi, Sleepless.

Here is my take on it.

"Hi, Son. I will be willing to discuss your car repair just as soon as you restore the files you deleted on my computer.

Dad"

After that, I wouldn't discuss anything with him until he makes a serious effort to put the situation right. Any other interactions with him would be somber and business like. Don't argue when he denies.

Consequences.

Gimble

Stop and think here...since DS18 is in europe....think here...maybe WW is putting him up to emailing this to you to get a response from you...don't respond she might be using it to get you to respond and sound like a bad father.

Sleepless, I've been catching up on what's been happening since I've gone. I also have an 18 year old son. I also have another kid in college. Being up-close-and-personal with a teenager/college student, can give you a different perspective. We've got some people on the forum who became independent quite young. I became independent quite young. These days, it's really, really hard to become independant at a young age, get a college education and not become overwhelmed with debt.

I'm very concerned about the way your older son has been put in the middle of everything. I know, I know, the "evidence" is overwhelming for you to kick his butt out the door. He's lied in court. You think he's deleted emails. But ask yourself, why has he done this? He's done it for the pure-ist of motive: Most likely because his mother asked him to. Does anybody want to think their mom is a nasty, lying skank? Especially when he's been away at college and detached from family life, he's not going to see what you see. He sees the "old" mom, the "old" family. If his mom asks him to do it, he will without thinking of the ramifications. He is caught in the drama as much as anybody.

Keep the door open with your son. You may think he is an adult, decision-making human being but he is really a child in this scenario. Be pissed off at your WW for putting him in this situation. Could YOU refuse your mom if she asked you something? Just MVHO.

How about a simple...got your request about the car...found some interesting things on the computer, we need to talk. Leave the ball in his court. When or IF he calls, leave it WIDE open and ask, "What was going on with the computer?" if he asks..."What do you mean?" just simply say, "I'm missing some files." And leave it open...let him talk...ask very openended questions like, "and then..." and "what else..."

KaylaAndy


OUCH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I hope you're correct. I'm actually sure you are. I'm concerned about rewarding bad behavior. I'll be there for him, like the prodigal son. I will simply remain steady and compassionate. Let the guilt of betrayal gnaw at him until his consience eats away at him.