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DS8 came home tonight at 8:00 really tired from a busy day. "It's good to see you dad." He said.
Did you have fun? Yes I did. Drove a Jet ski with our friends. Went swimming. Rode in a sea kayak. WW dropped him off with her two friends. I had to go get him out of the car because he was sleepy. I just gave WW a blank look. She was kind of giddy, giggly. It was a little weird. I had left her memento boxes in the car out front, and she picked those up and left. Then she called from the road, and had a really giddy conversation, like she was a little uncomfortable. I firmed up plans with her for the week. I was able to look at her dispassionately, but not angrily. My answers on the phone were short and businesslike.
This was a new behavior for her.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Hi, Sleepless.
Quote: =============================== My answers on the phone were short and businesslike. ===============================
Good, that is the way you should conduct yourself from here on.
The giddy thing really bothers me. As well as the fear act about you having her arrested.
First, if she REALLY is fearful of such an event, she has either done something wrong, plans to do something wrong, or needs psychiatric attention.
My flags are at full hurricane warning. Something is up. Make an excuse if you need to, but keep son away from her a couple more days and see what shakes out of the bag.
God bless, Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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I'm standing up for oppressed dads-who-are considered-unfit-parents-because-they're-men everywhere! And we really really appreciate it. Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Soooo.... when are you coming to Canada? Seriously though... I had a really hard time not bursting out with a cheer when I read your news. I'm really sorry it had to come to this, but for what it's worth, I think you have handled it admirably. John
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SIS,
WW's giddiness may very well be her attempt at hiding how devastated she really is - we women tend to do that - try to cover up our hurt....BUT, that being said, follow Gimble's advice and be extra vigilant as it may have been giddiness because she's devised "a plan." (Silly her if she has because I doubt the State Department will be too thrilled to have to enforce a Court Order because she takes off with DS8, especially if they see the partenting evaluator's assessment).
Regards,
BB
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First, if she REALLY is fearful of such an event, she has either done something wrong, plans to do something wrong, or needs psychiatric attention. I'm at Defcon 3 for now. WW needs psychiatric counseling. The Parenting evaluator interviewed the psychologist WW and DS8 saw in Europe and was not very impressed. No feedback on SH. The phone for DS8 works. I just called him. WW wants to buy herself and DS8 a phone that will work between U.S. and Europe. One reason I don't think she's up to the running for Canada plan yet. She currently draws a 6 figure income and a fully paid apartment in Europe. She would have a drastic change in lifestyle if she bolted. She knows she's going to jail if she pulls anything with DS8 this time. My flags are at full hurricane warning. Something is up. Make an excuse if you need to, but keep son away from her a couple more days and see what shakes out of the bag. Too late G. He's with her now at our friends house. She's on a short leash. Let's just say that everyone is watching her.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Thanks Dewt!
I've been telling everyone I can find, I'm so excited. I've told some people twice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
But I'm still on high alert until WW heads out of the country.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's hard to know how you're doing when you're in the middle of it.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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WW's giddiness may very well be her attempt at hiding how devastated she really is I've chalked it up to that. She was so devastated on the phone last week, I know she was affected. She's limiting her exposure to people because she's probably embarassed too. She looked really pretty the other day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, but more like a frightened child under the diligent view of a father than a defiant WW. I'm going for BROKEN HUMILITY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Congratulations Sleepless, You've handled this situation with the best interest of your son at heart I'm sure the evaluator was able to recoginize that. You've made a major stride into creating a safe, stable environment for your family. Good job!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
aka-confused42 BS-45 me WH-42 DS-14 & DD-12 together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs "I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04 D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06 5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06 Recovery finally began Jan 2007 We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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SIS! you've got mail YAY you've got mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
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Thanks Confused42.
I just got off the phone with WW. She wanted to talk about visitation. I thought that's what lawyers were for. I had to be papa bear.
WW: You sound like you want me out of DS8's life altogether. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Me: That's what you wanted when you started this whole thing.
WW: I can try to come back in April, but that's only if there's an opening. Can't we change the visitation agreement to give me every Mid Winter break.
Me: No, I want to be able to have some time with him too.
WW: Do I have to give two weeks notice before visiting?
Me: Add a caveat to say "or mutually agreed upon by the parents."
WW: Whine whine whine. But you're in control.
Me: That's right. I am.
She asked what the first parenting plan looked like from when she abducted DS8, because she had never seen it. I told her it wasn't nearly as restrictive as it is now.
Me: I tried to explain that to you, but you called me a liar, abducted DS8 and filed a restraining order against me.
WW: But I'm talking now.
Me: It's too late now.
And then I told her I didn't believe she had DS8's best interest at heart. She tried to argue with me, and I told her I wasn't going to debate it with her, said good night and hung up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I don't like being the bad guy, but her utter lack of understanding made it necessary.
I don't mind adding flexibility to the agreement as long as it's my decision in the end.
Good news is that DS8's cel phone music only has one volume setting..... LOUD. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by SleeplessNSeattle; 08/17/05 11:36 AM.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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I know it was hard to stand your ground but you did it and I am proud of U!
As for your son's phone being loud, well that one could come back and bite you in the _ _ _ ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
L.
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Thanks Orchid.
If the phone gets too loud, we may just have to let it run out of minutes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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SIS-
Gotta love the way you handled that conversation man!
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WW called yesterday about her lawyers proposed parenting plan and told me not to get excited when I saw it because it's not what she and I talked about. Last night my lawyer called to tell me WW's lawyer at disapproved the parenting plan and would not sign it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
So, I go to court tomorrow with the strict plan laid out by the Parenting Evaluator.
I read through the entire 14 page report finally. Here are some excerpts so you know what kind of nut I am.
Sleepless MMPI profile was more defensive than the norm for this context, suggesting difficulties with acknowledging personal shortcomings and a lack of self awareness. The pattern of clinical scales is typical of individuals who may have some difficulties managing impulses when angry.
Now I thought I did a GOOD job managing impulses when angry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
They are outgoing and gregarious with a greater than average need to be around others (Busted!!). Men with this particular profile have traditionally masculine interests and prefer mechanical, practical pursuits to those that are artistic or abstract in nature. They are apt to be intolerant of others (I am not!!) and disinterested in discussions of feelings. (Got me.)
I produced an MCMI of approximately average defensiveness considering the context of the evaluation (That's true). The pattern of clinical scales is typical of individuals who are concerned with appearances and are generally conventional in their behavior. (I don't get this one) They tend to deny troublesome thoughts and feelings as well as problems in their relationships. (That may have been a problem) Relationships with others may lack depth. (I'm comfortable enough with others to hug!)
WW produced an MMPI of average defensiveness when compared to others in a similar evaluative context. Clinical scales are not significantly elevated, suggesting an absence of significant emotional distress or dysfunction. (You must be joking!)
WW produced an MCMI of approximately average defensiveness considering the context of the evaluation. The pattern of clinical scales is typical of individuals who are disinclined to acknowledge shortcomings and work hard to meet the expectations of others. They tend to suppress any awareness of distressing inner emotions and deny problems in their relationships with others. (OK, that pretty well nailed it too.)
The psychologist realized that WW had lied to her about the relationship with OM19 when she read the E-Mails I downloaded.
Of note.
Regarding WW's counselor in Europe, the psychologist writes:
When questioning WW's counselor about WW's arrest, she stated, "she attacked him because she wouldn't tell him where her son was.... Wouldn't 9 out of 10 women be angry under those circumstances?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> The fact that WW's counselor does not differentiate between anger and assault would suggest WW had received no meaningful therapy around this issue.
The most evident flaw in Sleepless's functioning as a parent appears to have been his failure to insist that his sons be protected from WW's outbursts. (Let's say I tried but was not very effective). He allowed her to model a dysfunctional way of handling interpersonal conflict and apparently allowed her to express an inappropriate level of criticism towards them. Sleepless seems to be willing to sacrifice his children's well being in this respect in order to maintain his relationship with WW and not be the target of anger himself. (The only problem I have with this is that I intentionally drew WW's anger to myself when she criticizes S18 and DS8 to some degree. I'm sure I could have done things differently in retrospect, but I was trying to maintain a family AND protect them from outbursts. I'll try to do better now.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Going to court tomorrow, and to register DS8 for school.
Last edited by SleeplessNSeattle; 08/17/05 11:24 AM.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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WW still doesn't get it! Sleepless, First I want to say I am glad to have this visitation time with DS8, even with all these interruptions that are keeping me from just enjoying him while I am here. That has been partly why I am late in getting this back to you. In regard to the phone yesterday - I don't have any message from you on S18's phone from last night or this morning - sorry. At this point - and given what you have written for your declarations- I don't know what to believe from you. Would you be happy with 8 weeks of visitiation out of 52 weeks of a year, with 10 weeks only every other year? And if I move back to the states, you don't think that constitutes a significant change, which may require a revision or re-evaluation of the agreement? (This was the Psychologist's view because she believed psychological counseling was imperative.) Sleepless- you lived with me for 10 years, you know what you have said are gross exagerations (no they're not), and you know that any anger I had was only directed at you (not it wasn't), and was between us. It was not as you seem to indicate, in front of the kids (Slapped me in the middle of London in front of both boys and her mom). You are very convincing to most people - you convinced me into marrying you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I know now that you just want to hurt me through DS8 (I don't really care if I hurt her or not), and it is a real pity for him. You know that I am not a threat at all to him and he loves me and wants to be with me - sticking to the letter of what the psychologist has suggested just shows you don't want me in his life. She did not ever allow DS8 and me to interact when she was in Paris with us. She kept us distinctly separated when she was at the house. That is why she couldn't observe what you know to be true about Detlef and his hugs, kisses and cuddles that he gives me throughout the day - YOU know that to be true (He plays with his Legos and watches videos by himself while she does.....?).. I raised S18 and he is emotionally stable and extremely mature (HELLO!)- he knows that I love him (He think's you're selfish), and everytime he is crying and down - it has been me who he calls. (Except for every time he cried to me because his mother abandoned him to Europe and had an affair with a 19 year old which he finds disgusting. I am hurt since I am Detlef's mommy - and now he won't have me around to cuddle with unless you say it is convenient for you.
I already tried to tell you what I thought needed to be changed, and you said your lawyers was the only way - so where can I go from here? Lirio
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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Hi, Sleepless.
Be straight up in court tomorrow. No desperation. Be factual and polite, no matter what your wife says. Let your lawyer do the work.
Make sure he knows what you want.
God bless, Gimble
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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SIS,
My thoughts and prayers go with you today as you go to court. Please let us all know how it goes.
Regards,
BB
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Prayers are with you, SS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thinking of you today, SIS.
Alph.
Me, BS 37
Him, WXH (Noddy) 40
DD13, DD6
Married 14th August 1993
D/Day 2nd April 05
Noddy left us 3rd April 05, lives with OW (Omelette) 28
Divorce final 6th July '06.
Time wounds all heels... - Groucho Marx
...except when it doesn't. - Graycloud
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Be straight up in court tomorrow. No desperation. Be factual and polite, no matter what your wife says. Let your lawyer do the work. Thanks Gimble and BB. I was good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Khaki slacks, Blue Pin striped shirt with Winnie the Pooh and Tigger tie and a Navy Blue Blazer. I looked GOOOOD! WW didn't show. Just the two lawyers and me staring respectfully at the judge. The Court commissioner ruled that I should be the custodial parent until the March 2006 court date UNLESS, WW moves back to Seattle during that time, and then she would be the custodial parent. ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> WHAT?!) That's the only thing that I didn't like since it directly contradicted the psychologist's recommendation that her return to area was not enough for her to be given custody. I have 10 days to challenge any part of the commissioner's ruling. WW has a contract to be in Europe until 4/2006. If she quit, the government wouldn't move her stuff back, she wouldn't have a job..... I think that's UNLIKELY. WW is granted visitation for all holidays that are 5 days or more long. (Christmas vacation and Mid Winter break fall in that category.) Otherwise, she has no other visitation granted.... period. It was not explicit, but it says she has visitation, which means she visits DS8. Must that be in his home area??? We'll clarify that tomorrow. Looks like he'll be with me for Thanksgiving! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I enrolled DS8 in school right after the hearing and put him #3 on the waiting list for his school. I drove right over to the school after that, and notified the principal and the office administrator. They had apparently been watching the waiting list for DS8's name to pop up, and told me not to worry, DS8 would make it in, no problem. Apparently the Parenting Evaluator's kids went to that school too. The principal really liked her too. Further information today is that the judge assigned to the case in March 2006 is GREAT! My lawyer LOVES her. The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way about visitation is when the lawyers discussed the winter break. If DS8 goes to Europe, I requested he come back 3 days before school started to get over jet lag. WW's lawyer said, "OH no, that's too much time." Are you Sh*&^ing me??? This is a 9 year old boy, and you want to return him from Europe the day before school and then send him to school?? I told her that I'm sure WW would have more consideration for DS8 than that.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
Me 41
WS 39
DS 19, DS 9
DDay 2/25/05
Divorcing....
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