Thanx Trix,
I think most of that circle is lost. Pep's word of the day is a perfect description. Some friends were her relatives, others I could stay in contact with are friends of OWH which WH would no longer be welcome. Its too tangled to even think of going there.

I am reading Surviving an Affair, I kept going back and rereading certain passages. It just frustrating that he is not willing to participate in this. His attitude is "We'll see how it goes." (We need a red flag icon)

But I figure the worst has already happened. He left. It wasn't for long but I know now that I could survive it, be supported and move on. Its the limbo I'm not willing to do.

confused,
I just read through all your posts, all the way back to day one.

I may have missed it along the way but if they are IM'ing each other, would this be from his work computer and her home computer?

My WH did a lot of that with OW, as he was laid off since last June. (Just got new job a week ago - hurray!!)
He did it from our home computer but he deleted the temporary files (at least what he doesn't want me to see) and makes sure there is no trail of the IM.

If he's on your home computer doing this, there are a lot of great spyware type programs you can purchase to see what his activity is. They are super simple to install. Some of them can even be installed remotely if it is not a home computer. I remember reading somewhere on MB though that that can be illegal if it is installed on a work computer without the knowledge of the powers that be.

I used spectorsoft on my computer, thanks to the advice of some wonderful people here. Found out a lot of things.

I wanted to ask you about your PI too. Do you mind if I ask, did you spend a few thousand for this? A girl I work with spent 3,500.00 to get what she needed. photos, the guy followed her H and really did a great job.

The reason I ask is because I hired a PI also and got some very basic info. They were cheap and I feel the service I got was cheap too. May be worth it to spend more $$.

In my situation it doesn't matter anymore, as I stopped snooping and as of d-day# 2, one month ago today, we are getting divorced as far as I am concerned.

You posted on my thread about how a WS can have just a blank stare and absolutely no comment etc...
Once your WH came back home, how long did it take to settle back into that type of person?

I feel we have a very similar situation. Don't know if you've kept up with my saga along the way but Dday was 12/6/04, 2/16/05 promised NC and then Dday #2 on 3/20/05. We were getting along just great and I truly thought we were in recovery, then I found out he never did stop seeing her, it was all a lie. 3/20 is when I asked for a D.
He won't leave. I had a thread about that too. I don't want to get attorneys involved but am afraid I might have to. He asks that I wait until he's been at his new job for a month before I make any drastic decisions.

Suz, If they are IM'ing it would be from WH at work and OW at home. I didn't put anything on this computer at home because I know zelch about computers and he works with them all day long (document management for major corp.
The PI I got was reccommended to me by a friend Get this he is a retired regional supervisor for the witness protection program! When I met with him and showed him all the evidence I had gathered on my own, he said I didn't really need him but I hired him to get 3rd party confirmation. He required a $600 retainer and charged $60/hr. I had dates places and times all mapped out I just needed a witness. It didn't take long and he returned part of my retainer.

He put me in contact with a great female lawyer, she advised me on my rights and what I needed to have in place to protect my children. If I get to plan D...all my ducks are in a row.

WH was not gone for long...I think he came back too soon. The first couple days he seemed remorseful then he was angry and moody (it was fine with me I figured he was acting out because he wasn't cake eating) Its been about a week for the blank stares, and word twisting again. He had been doing the blank stare thing and word twisting since May 2004, I just wasn't sure why. DDay #1 when I confronted him was 03/02/05, he moved out 03/16/05 came back home 03/21/05 and promised NC. I've never been convinced contact had completely stopped. I think they are just being more careful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I am in Plan A at this point. WH and I are going on a date Friday night. We will be going out ALONE. We've been out as a family and we've been to functions as a couple but this is the first time we are going out just to go out since before Thanksgiving and then it was suggested by MC and WS made sure it was miserable. Before that he would come up with an excuse or refuse to go with me unless of course OW and circle of friends included in the evening. My mom is taking the kids overnight so we don't have to be home early.

I do not have high expectations, I'm hoping we can relax a little and I resist bringing up any R issues. I want to have FUN. Its been so long, any ideas? Dinner and movie would be safe but I thinking not real fun. I want to laugh out loud. We use to laugh together all the time. Maybe I am expecting too much.

Can't talk at a movie.

Dinner and a nice walk..we live near beaches which are ideal. Maybe a different place for dessert and coffee or an after dinner drink. Maybe a club with music you both enjoy. Dancing? Line dancing? Don't know what you are into or willing to try.
Bowling? Maybe a comedy club.

Try to keep convo light, positive, and fun or romantic...if possible. Try to avoid serious R talk. Dreams or possible future fun vacation ideas...

We had our date last night. He came home a little later than normal so we didn't get to dinner until 8PM. My mom watched the kids over night. I had a plan because I didn't want to play "i don't know, what do you want to do?" game.

Thursday night we picked up our new RV, so I planned we would get dinner and go shopping just to get ideas about what we needed for the RV and talk about up coming camping trips. At dinner conversation was good. NO R TALK!!!! At first it was me doing most of the talking but I guess he figured it was safe and added to conversation instead of just answering questions. Dinner went really well, maybe because I had no expectations. I offered to pay for dinner since I had invited him out. He laughed and accepted and thanked me for dinner. He made good eye contact, he held doors and chairs and brought the car up front to pick me up at restaurant.

We went shopping for the RV supplies.We have the finances split from when he moved out. He suggested we get somethings but I said I hadn't budgeted for that, so he offered to pay for everything.As we were picking things out. It felt like we were stocking up for him to leave again.At first that upset me but then I thought...well if we get to plan B he'll have place to go and see all the things we picked out together. And he paid for it.

We went home and stocked the RV and started making lists of other things we could use. He went and got me a drink (Mike's Hard Lemonade) and he had a soda. He also brought back a deck of cards. So we listened to music and talked and laughed and played cards. It was great! I kept things very light and friendly and he was flirting with me! Things progressed.SF but still avoids kissing.Afterward he said "My back is bothering me you don't mind if I sleep on the couch do you?" I asked him if there was another reason he wanted to sleep on the couch. He said no. Our bed is terrible and I can't wait to get another, it could have been that or it could've been that he was separating himself from me. I was tempted but avoiding LB and asking R questions.

This morning he got up took a shower and came back to join me in bed. When the kids called to get picked up, he offered to go get them without hesitation. He had distanced himself from my parents over the last couple years and has really been avoiding them since exposure. Thursday when we pick up the RV he drove straight to their house to show them. I took that as a positive sign.

Then OW daughter started calling for my daughter, 4x this morning. I listened in on the last call. OW daughter invited herself over to my house, DD said "I don't care", she asked WH, he told her to come ask me. OWD asked OWH so I figured he'd say no, but instead he said if its ok with them its ok with me.So DD came to me, I said "No,let me talk to her Dad." He got on the phone and said he couldn't come up with reason to say no but he didn't want to play together. So I was the bad guy. It pis%#d me off. While I had OWH on the phone I told him WH was planning on going out tonight without me to be aware. I told WH that in case it was not clear, DD was not allowed to see OWD. He just shook his head and walked away.

I'm confused by his signals, but I'm guessing he is too. I hope.

Before WH went out last night, I asked him where he was going, who was going to be there and what time he expected to be back.He answered without hesitation or sarcasm. I also added that I hoped it would not be a repeat of last weekend, when he got soo drunk. My tone was very matter of fact. I told him that we both agreed that we were not happy with what our marriage had become and we needed to negotiate what we wanted our marriage to be. I said "We each have to figure out what we are willing to offer and if we are willing to accept what other is offering."
The look on his face was priceless. It was like it hit him I would not settle for crumbs while he was eating cake.
He came home before midnight, told me who was there and what they talked about. He had few beers but was not drunk by any means.

OWH called while WH was out, OW whereabouts were confirmed. He said when he was talking to me on the phone earlier she was standing next to him. Apparently she was very upset I wouldn't allow her daughter to come over. She said"I don't know what the big deal is. She should let the girls play together!" I think she coached her daughter to call. My daughter has said a few times she didn't really like playing with OWD because she was annoying, DD does not initiate calls to her and never asks to go there.

Today we are going to my niece's birthday party (H family)
I think that will help us.

We had a good day today. Spent time with WH family and old friends. All very supportive of marriage and family. WH even sought me out a few times today to stand next to me or ask me if I wanted a soda.

Tonight we wrote out bills together and up graded antivirus software. Not very romantic, but he was not uncomfortable being near me. This past year he would use almost any excuse for not being in the same room with me.

I asked him when he wanted to start "negotiations" i.e. setting guidelines and boundries. He said "Not tonight I'm tired but Wednesday would be a good night." This is also improvement to pin down a date or time is always tricky with him.

Mixed message today. He wants to take new RV to work one day this week, to see how it handles on highway and check the gas mileage. WH travels 104 miles daily round trip. I think he wants to show OW the RV, but that just my feeling.

Still waiting for OWH to install keylogger.

They are both on line again this morning. I wish OWH would hurry up with that keylogger!!!

OW had told me about another "friend" she had from HS that sounded like EA to me. He moved to Ohio with his wife and kids, she said she had periodic contact on line. I hoping thats who she is on line with. (I know its selfish wishful thinking)

Things here at home are much more relaxed. But I still have doubts. I hate limbo!

Am I handling this right? Any suggestions?

BTW when we were visiting w/ family and friends. We stopped by to see one of H oldest friends. He was on his boat with wife and DD. We were all talking in a group and his friend said to me "You look great! Are you doing something different with your hair?" WH looked at me and smiled.
I thanked his friend for the compliment. "Gee thanks, I'm letting my hair grow" I guess my GODDESSNESS was shining thru. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Things have been pretty quiet here. WH has a meeting tonight. Will he go out after or will he come home? We'll see. Tommorrow he agreed to negiotiate. He has not taken an interest in finding out about MB concepts, I've emailed articles and given him the web site but I didn't push it because I didn't want him lurking in the forum.

We are both conflict avoiders with personal relationships. Work place is different. Any suggestions on how I make my boundries clear to him without LB's? And what are examples of consequences if he doesn't follow boundry?

Example: I want him to call and touch base at home before he leaves work. If he does not. What should the consequence be?

i went through with that exact boundry with my hubby---he pushed and pushed---finally i said i expect a call at closing to let me know you are done or gonna be late...not 1/2 hour after closing....and i expect a call if you get delayed further than you expected. the boundry was simple...the consequence was the loss of his family.....

Talked to OWH contact has been confirmed between WH and OW.I went to go find my Plan B letter that I wrote when WH left the 1st time. That journal is missing. I had it hidden from the kids. I guess WH has it. I had my plan B letter on here with changes and feedback but when the site changed I can't find it I think the topic was PBL...1st draft...help.
Anybody have ideas on how to retreive it?

I found this:

PBL.....1st draft.....Help

Hope it helps.

Trix,
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

I just got from meeting OWH, apparently they never stopped communicating. But he is lying to her too!!

I've been doing a serious PlanA since Jan. 05, very well too if I might add. The changes I made actually started about 2 years ago. They all kind of came together over the summer before I knew about MB. Things were good but I was very emotional. Since Jan I've been much calmer in his presense anyway.

I have a lawyer already who is prepared to do a court order for custody and support. Financial agreements were made when he left in March.

Through the new evidence, I find they are worried about little ole me causing trouble that they want to avoid. I think they have a plan, I'm just gonna mess the timing up a little.


I am sooo angry right now. I feel he was playing me the fool AGAIN. I will keep posting for support. What happened to the man I married <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />???? I sure don't want this alien!!!

Trix, thanks again for finding my plan B letter. What did you think of it?

I think Ark did a good job going over the PBL with you in that thread. Just look it over and see if you need to up date anything due to your current info.

I can't recall, does OWH want to save his marriage?
Do you have legal separation in your state?
I think it is great that your lawyer has the financial and custody stuff ready. You should have that in place before you go to plan B.

In my case, we don't have legal separation in my state. My husband agreed to my requested financial support and visitation that I set up. We own our own business, so I set weekly up deductions from his paycheck. I am glad he felt responsible enough for his actions to be in agreement. I believe that FOW encouraged him to cancel a joint credit card without informing me. (We each opened a separate checking accounts...withour initially informing each other.) I was embarrassed when I went to use that credit card for our son's Ice Hockey travel arrangements.

I can't remember if you've read James Dobson's, 'Love Must Be Tough'. It would be very good for you at this point.

OWH had been willing to work it out. He started IC and OW went 1 time. I think he really loves OW but is humilitated and doesn't have the tools to deal with this. I've told him about the web site and tried to guide him alittle using the advice I've been given, but I don't want to get too wrapped up in their marriage.

There is no legal separation in my state either, but my lawyer said I can get a judge's order for custody and support. We have a joint account for bills (i took his debit card for this account) We each have a separate checking account and a joint savings that requires both signatures to use funds. We have no credit cards. I will be opening my own credit card to help with my credit rating. Most things are in his name.

WH called tonight after his meeting to tell me he had to stop and drop tickets off to a friend of ours. He said he took the tickets with him after he got home from work today. But I noticed the tickets were missing much earlier in the day. So I figure this is just an excuse to go meet up w/ OW. So I asked when he got the tickets because I had been looking for them. I knew I caught him in a lie, I tried the reverse babble...it worked great, he had no idea what he was saying by the time we got done. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

When he got home an hour later he was in a good mood and proceded to tell me about his day. Which has become a pattern after he has seen her he is much more talkative.

He had agreed to negotiation meeting Wed. night. I don't want to tip my hand yet, so I have to come up with something to talk about. I was gonna talk to him about NC and limit setting. I guess that will still work, since he obviously feels he has no limits.

I've got a busy day ahead. I need to talk to my lawyer. Work on my plan B letter to update a few things.

Yesterday I was angry. Today I'm sad. I really wanted to believe he was trying. I just don't understand why he would risk everything for HB OW.

Last night we laid in bed talking. He was making plans with me to take the kids on vacation. All the while I know he was just talking to her. I need Plan B. I look forward to going dark.

I need support today...please

bump

It sounds normal for his addiction that he got his fix from her and was on a high. I know it gets confusing. He may have no intention of leaving your marriage but is enjoying the high he gets from the admiration etc. EN's he is getting from OW.

Hopefully, reality will set in with him when you go to plan B.

I hope when that happens he will end the A right away. But, if not, be prepared for it to run it's course. Full exposure will be necessary at that point. Be firm about your bounderies when you give him your PBL, and try to remain calm and centered. Try to be the sane one. You can show him your disappointment in him. You will let him know that you do love your husband but you can't put up with him as the WS. You need to preserve what love you have left...


You've been doing really good with this, so far.

I believe you still have a good shot at saving your marriage. If not you will be a better woman for trying.