Another thread was from a WS who gave a 2 paragraph description of his problem and asked how long it would take him to get over OW.

From that, he got about 2 dozen posts, none of which answered his question. He did get some excellent advice, but there was also a lot of gratuitous sniping.

For example:
"You are full of yourself."
"Its all about you, isn't it?"
"Aren't you one lucky guy to be given a second chance by your wife!"

There seem to be a repeated refrain that the guy was "selfish". One post suggested that if he did not get his wife involved with this board, that that too would be a selfish act.

It sends to me that some of the BSs here tend to use any WS as a cathartic punching bag. I've noticed that many times a WS makes one post and disappears after he/she gets the seemingly endless and obligatory posts about how bad the WS is.

The problem is not with the accuracy of the statements, but the problem is more about how to get the guy to listen to us. Had someone made those statements to me right after my D-Day, I would have tuned them out and destroyed the radio.

Perhaps if we were a little bit slower to pull the trigger, it might help get the WSs returning.

Get off your high horse, Jimmy.

The "sniping" took place after the poster (ConfusedinMD) revealed some logic that needed not only sniping, but to have it put glaring in front of his face.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Go ahead - make my day.

I suggest you go re-read the thread from start to finish and report back here.

WAT

Jimmy I rarely respond to active WS , first time poster or not. Their frame of reference is too distant from my own for anything useful to come of it.

I read this ConfusedinMD thread and while there are a few comments that are out of order IMO, much of the advice he got was good.

He asked the question you cite, but in giving context he gave insight into his current thinking patterns and they are well broken.

As BS or FBS we have an alarm that sounds in us when we suspect another BS is going to get hurt or is being lied to. those things almost killed us after all.

CIMD appears to want to sweep his EA under the rug without dealing with stuff openly and honestly.

Yeah maybe 2 lines in the whole thread were unncessesary, but the reponses as a whole look appropriate to me.

Maybe FWS will always empathise with WS and FBS will alwasy empathise with BS and ever mote it be.

I pray CIMD sorts his head and heart out and moves to recover his M.

JimmyMac, if you have an issue then take it to the Mods. Otherwise, get off your high horse and quit playing the self appointed behavior cop. It's tiring as hell and no one has to justify themselves to you.

No one appointed you the forum behavior police, so knock off the self righteous sanctimony.

I think the replies were just honest feedback from people who are living/have lived through the horrors of infidelity.

I especially appreciated the one about being given a second chance by his BW. What she is doing by giving him another chance is a true act of love.

As a BS its a very difficult CHOICE we make to let them back into our hearts - but I don't think WS see it that way.

MelodyLane,

Do you think that what I said or how I said it was condescending? I'm asking you because I value your opinion.

Speaking and behaving in a condescending manner was a big problem for me in the past. I'm wondering if I need to do some more work on it, or if it's not something to worry about.

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LB, I did not think it was condescending the first time I read it, so I went back and read it again just to be sure. I still don't think it is and believe it was good, well intentioned advice. I think rather, that some of us just hit an overly sensitive spot, which is something we can't control. Please don't let it worry you and note the person to whom you posted did not react badly and that is all that counts. Take care, my friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for taking a look at it for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .

I don't think I've read the thread in question, but in a general sense I gotta totally agree with what you are saying. Disrespectful judgements, whether deserved or not, are usually going to get a predictable response.

dewt [offers Jimmy a low-rider soapbox instead of a high horse]

Good attempt, Jimmy Mac, but I think too it comes down to how a WS is often perceived...

There are those who are firm believers that the WS is a criminal who deserves what they get. "Let them burn in hell"

Then there are those who see them as sick and afflicted people in need or careful handling so they can recover.

They real answer should be somewhere between. We should all, BS and FWS alike take a firm stance that infidelity is wrong. But I do think you make a good point of meeting people "where they are".

I think your right in that some BS take an opportunity to take swipes at a WS or FWS to relieve their own anger. But only SOME. They're usually pretty near d-day and raw.

Mixing fresh BSs with foggy WSs is an explosive recipe. Unfortunately there's no way to avoid that in an integrated forum like this.

I think some FWSs do need the "2x4" at times...especially when they refuse to take responsibility for what they have done. It's those people that even grate on my nerves that draw the ire.

I've left here in a huff several times, only to come back and realize they were right. Or, I came back with a better understanding of why they reacted they way they did.

It's a fine line between firm help and bashing and I'm sure we all have different ideas about where that line is. I wish we could have a black and white standard (some think they do) but it's always going to be fuzzy.

Low

That was an outstanding post, LowOrbit. I think you very accurately assessed the situation. Good job! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jimmy Mac,

In general I agree that sometimes WS posters who first come here are treated too harshly by some BS’s and may feel ‘unwelcome’ here. I think this is especially true if a WS is ‘sensitive’ and struggle with self-esteem issues… I for one am a person who doesn’t alwayas have a ‘thick skin’ and are sometimes overly sensitive to criticism (this is one of the reasons I didn’t post much here while I was in early withdrawal and recovery). This is one of my ‘bad’ traits! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> But as a result, I try to be sensitive to other posters too and I try to choose my words carefully not to 'hurt' the posters feelings. Although I’m aware that some of the ‘tough’ post by some BS’s are definately meant well and meant to actually help the WS, I can also understand why some WS’s are sometimes scared away by this. It also depends on how a specific post is perceived and interpreted by the receiver. Again, if a poster is sensitive to criticism and have some esteem & self-worth issues, he/she might interpret a post or certain words differently than how the poster intended it to be...

You said the problem is not with the accuracy of the statements, but the problem is more about how to get the guy to listen to us. I agree with this 100%… I believe it is best to give a message through on an ‘adult’ ‘adult’ basis rather than a ‘parent’ ‘child’ basis. There is a bigger chance that people will listen to us and take in what we want to say if we speak to the person as an ‘equal adult’ (and it doesn't necesarily matter if the person behave like an adult or not – this is not the point). The minute we try and talk to another person like we (the one who wants to give the message) are the ‘critical parent’ and he/she (the one who receive the message) is the ‘child’, there is a bigger chance that the message won’t go through and the person probably won’t listen to us. In fact, there is a bigger chance that the receiver of the message will then get ‘defensive’ and shut us out… In general this is common human behavior. If it’s not possible to give a message on an ‘adult’ basis, we can try the ‘nurturing parent’ attitude in stead. This will also allow the receiver of the message to actually listen to us because he/she will perceive us as caring, understanding and empathetic and then the poster will be more open to critisism as well... Again, it's more important how we say something than what we say...

On the other hand, sometimes it is necessary for certain posters to receive ‘tough posts’ from others and I think this is what make these message boards so wonderful and effective: We have a huge community of posters & advisers on these boars where both the ‘tough’ posters and more ‘emphatic’ posters are needed. Both type of posters help to give a healthy ‘balance’ to these boards (if you understand what I mean). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Melody: Sounds like you went to the "Crossfire" school of debating. Let's just scream at each other for 5 minutes, put in a commercial break, and call it a show.

Someone else suggested we start a thread about this, and it seemed like a good idea. The WS in question did hang around, and he did get some great advice.

Other newbie WSs haven't--they get a couple of replies of the "you are going to hell" variety, and never come back again. In those situations, no one was helped.

I think LowOrbit advice is pretty good--just try to meet the WS where he/she is, rather than where we wish he/she was.

Jimmy, no one is screaming at you. However, you are not in a position to dictate your personal standards of sensitivity to others. I find that most offensive - and unrealistic.

Even so, if someone storms off like a drama queen because they don't like what they hear, that is entirely their own choice. No one here has the power to "run off" others. It is entirely a personal choice and folks are responsible for their own decisions.

And it should be pointed out that on the thread in question, the WS was not "run off" or offended. He greatly appreciated the advice he recieved. So it is clear this has nothing to do with him, but rather, everything to do with *YOU;* that you are simply injecting your own personal discomfort into the situation.

Jimmy Mac,

I think you might have been referring to me when you said:
"Someone else suggested we start a thread about this, and it seemed like a good idea."

What I had actually asked for was that if someone saw how what I said was condescending to please help ME by explaining it to ME.

You started this thread, but you didn't explain how my post was condescending. Please don't credit me with suggesting that you start this thread in the manner you did, or that the subject I was suggesting is the subject you made this thread.

I still appreciate your pointing out to me that you thought my post was condescending and too harsh. Although no one else has yet expressed their agreement with you, returning to condescending ways is something that I would want to have pointed out to me sooner rather than later. Through this experience, I have also learned a little more about how and when to evaluate myself when I'm not familiar with the person (or their history) who is pointing out what they see.

Take care Jimmy Mac

~LOL~

Jimmy .....

I wrote the "second chance" remark ... and isn't it TRUE ??? He IS one lucky guy to be given a second chance?

This chance is a gift, not a right.

Doesn't he have the right to feel special because his wife thinks he is worth a second chance?

Any one of us who is lucky enough to be given a second chance .... shouldn't we feel grateful for that chance to make things right?

Honestly Jimmy, I just can't see how this remark of mine was anything but a compliment !

I think you are incorrect here.

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

and one more thing Jimmy .....


... I feel that you are using ME as a cathartic punching bag, and I'd like you to stop .... please.

Pep

Here's what I don't agree with...

that using language that is not name calling..but certainly direct in defining actions...is some how some twisted in to BS triggers and just a carthartic cleansing....or punching bag etc.....

It is not possible that it is the truth?

I think that it is unbelievable that SOME WS expect posters here to be the ONES that do all the work to CONVINCE a WS NOT to continue in an affair...

and as if somehow saying anything negative to them is CRUELER than the act of infidelity...that's where I can not follow the logic...

or if anything even mirrors that dreaded word...
judging!!!

If I gave something up for Lent...or had a new years resolution...a tiny part of me wanted it to be...
let WS screw who ever and what ever they choose...cause in all reality THEY CAN....

and very little time is wasted with name calling and much disrespect round here...which is different from not liking what one hears....

AND if anything WS get page after page ad-nauseum in my opinion sometimes of people pleading excellent cases and scenarios of the damage their affair can and does cause...infact there are times that I believe too much hand holding and cajoling of a fence sitting WS goes on...and we poster become enablers in some wierd cyber way...

the putting off on ending an affair for one more day of people telling them why they should


the putting off of disclosing to a spouse for one more day of posters telling why they should...

personally I'm pretty much an equal opportunity cut the bull poster...I'm not real interested in the title be it bS or WS...
I look for the calm logic rational path....
in everyone..
and call them on it when they stray equally...

I bet infact more BS feel beat up by me round here than Ws...

ARK^^

"infact there are times that I believe too much hand holding and cajoling of a fence sitting WS goes on..."

ark, that's the way I saw it too when I first started reading here. It seemed to add insult to injury that there was no hand holding or cajoling for me as a shattered BS, just the hard facts of what I needed to do, but a WS would get pages and pages of support and encouragement to not make a freaking phone call to OP and then get pages and pages of kudos for success. It was a bitter pill to swallow at the time.

If I wasn't serious about learning to do my part as a BS, I'm sure I would have run for the hills instead of cried about it. As it was, I very seriously considered a revenge affair for months, but not to get revenge--to get the treatment that a WS seemed to get.

Today, I don't know if I would see it the same way if I went back and read the posts from that time. At that time, I was devastated, terrified, confused, and in panic. My kids were being threatened and my WH was in danger that he wasn't aware of in his fogged out state of mind. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it. In fact, it was the clear and blunt advise that I got that helped to clear my BS fog--and it was a very thick fog indeed!

"I bet infact more BS feel beat up by me round here than Ws..."

I will agree with that---and THANK YOU!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[color:"navy"]Hi Jimmy Mac.
You do seem to 'practice what you preach' as I went back and read some of your posts to a participating WH ((not a Former Wandering Husband) on this thread below:

"WH new to MB seeking advice on what to do????"
by Seeking?

You were consistent in your advice of the need to get out of the affair; in a firm but kind way, from your own experience as a FWH.

I thought your messages to 'Seeking' were very good.

I found your posts by clicking on your ID name and then there is a place that says 'read recent posts.'

Sincerely, Julie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />