On or around 1/19/05 WH told me he was planning to leave. D-day was 2/12/05. As soon as I first learned there were problems, and what his main gripes were, I immediately went hard to work trying to fix everything.

For the first 1 1/2 mo I saw no progress - WH was like a big rock that didn't see me, hear me, or notice any hugs or kisses. Still, he didn't leave either & I tried to make the most of the opportunity.

Early March he restored some affection, returning hugs & kisses and occasionally giving them, but his attempts to B/U with OW fell apart. Then, since she was out of work, he hired her to work for our corporation. She is out in the field, but being the boss, he has full access to any of the employees if he wants it.

WH admits he still sees her, but says nothing is going on. There is very solid evidence to the contrary. Exposure occurred without me needing to do anything, due to the job fiasco, and gossip immediately began to spread through the ranks and beyond. WH does not know of this yet, and I have not heard back from the VP that he received my email, but he is not the sort to just ignore something like this. I'll know more on that later today.

WH is still asleep after being out till 2:38 am with her (not that anybody's counting), & I am mentally preparing to be nice to him when he awakes. Plan A Plan A Plan A. I can do this. Thanks, guys.

U NEAK:

Excuse me for chiming in yesterday without knowing all of the facts. I so agree with ARK's post regarding your need to accept that contact will continue during PLAN A.

I read over this post and continue to find it amazing how WSes are so much alike. My FWH, who should win the cake-eating prize of the century, followed the same script as yours during MY PLAN A. He tried to pretend like MY PLAN was not affecting him. Turns out it was highly unnerving to him. He could hardly believe the changes that I had made. Maybe it will help you to know that, in my case, the OW was telling him that I didn't care about him,etc. My PLAN A was proving her wrong. Like you say, STAY THE COURSE!

Another thing. At least your WH comes home. I know. WHOOPEE! However, my H had the pattern of spending the night and the entire weekends with her. I remember going crazy on the weekend,not sleeping, coming to this site for support.

Hang in there and try to follow the MB system. I can truly say that my M, itself, is happier than ever!

Don't stress it, Mimi, that was yesterday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I've been bonding all day with WH, will be back on later after he leaves for work.

I am shaking so hard right now, but I did it. I just sent him a text msg, delayed to arrive after he starts his shift (pity it's only 4 hrs today), and it reads as follows:

Sweetheart, I want you to know that I know you were with K**** from the time you picked her up the other night and took her to the motel until you dropped her off last night. I am not trying to make you angry, but I am not comfortable having sex with you while you are having sex with someone else. I want to stay married to you, and will do whatever it takes to change the things in our relationship that led to this situation as soon as you end all contact with K**** for good.

I'll be back in a while.

Apparently he got my msg by now, because he just tried to call. I didn't answer yet - not ready and have no clue what to say.

Seems like you are doing very well. When he calls, be very calm. Let him know that you would like to save your marriage, but it is very hurtful while there is still contact with OW.

Don't scream, argue, LB, or disclose your sources.

Then come here and vent to us.

Thanks, believer, I can promise that I will at least sound calm. I left the house for the evening so I don't have to talk to him until about 2 hrs from now. I will definitely be back on to vent whenever he leaves, whether tonight in a huff or tomorrow for work. The main thing I have to brace for is if he tries to deny it. He sounds so sincere, and it will be hard, but I can do it. I can do it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

With the attitude you've got---You CAN do it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Stay strong,,,,I'll be thinking about you!!

My attitude so far is mostly hype, as I've always been more the conflict avoidance type, but I am willing the testosterone to surge through me. The encouragement helps incredibly.

Not So:

I've been debating whether or not to tell you this. Seems like it is a controversial viewpoint now. So do what you choose. It is your body. Here goes...

I had lots of SF with my WH during PLAN A. I used protection and means that were safe. Also, this can be done without actually doing the act without going into detail. SF was even recommended to me by folks on the this forum at that time.

SF is a major EN of my H's and this was not a major need that the OW was fulfilling. It was a choice that I made. In my case, it was important and essential. I thought I would throw this out to you.

HOLY $hit, sometimes I have to RE-READ some things here to be sure I actually read that. Some things still drop my jaw. 4 months ago, I would have had a very strong willed opinion (unsolicited ofcourse) on this, but not anymore. There is no use giving you my opinion on any of this being "nice" stuff....especially after your WH has been out till 3 am screwing another woman. You will find many many other people to support you in this....not me ofcourse, but I will try and not be at least UNSUPPORTIVE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am BY NO MEANS not an expert on any of the plans, strategies or principles here, etc but I will say this: IF you CHOOSE to have SF with your WH, you are WILLFULLY placing your life at risk in contracting any number of STD's, including HIV/AIDS. Yes, I know there are certain respected members here who will throw out advice to the "contrary", and that is their right, but you should have both sides. In a million years, I cannot ever imagine finding support to sleep with my wife after I KNOW THAT SHE WAS INTIMATE WITH ANOTHER MAN ONLY HOURS BEFORE. If I gave this advice in practice I would deserve to be slapped with a malpractice suit.

I guess I am the twisted one here. Oh well, to each their own. Carry on, and sorry for the thread interruption.

LM

*****EDited**** I read my response and I can see why some people are going to be upset and offended (yet again), but I will just acknowledge your dissapointment with my apologies and propose that we move on from it, lets not thread jack the thread" ****** I still feel what I said is the GD truth, so I won't erase it.


Cheers.

LM

Hi Not So,

I made the same decision that mimi did and for the same reason, it was his #1 EN. I think it was also his #2, #3, and #4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.

It was not an easy decision to make because I did not like the risk. I did, however, make that point. Every time. Not only did WH have to shower right before, but if it didn't seem like his shower "was long enough" I asked him if he was sure he washed thoroughly (it gave him an ewwwwwwwww OW cooties message but in a non-LB manner). I expressed "worry" about one condom not being enough (we didn't use condoms before the A). I also expressed "worry" about birth control failure because I didn't want the possibility of him having two kids the same age (planted the OW might get PG seed). Also, I "worried" about starting each month and kept "reassuring" WH until I expressed my "relief" when I did by saying Whew! glad it's not me this month (planted the seed that OW getting PG was a real possibility).

The point I'm trying to make, Not So, is that whatever you decide on the SF issue, use it to your advantage to help bring an end to the affair. You probably won't know how effective it is until after the affair is over. My WH told me later that I had him so paranoid about disease and pregnancy that they would get into squabbles because OW had to hound him for days and days and even beg to get any <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />.

Take care

Keep in mind:

LOVING BOUNDARIES and I have recovered our marriages. LEMONMAN has not.

I say this not to be offensive to LEMONMAN.

I say this because it is important to help you recover your marriage.

We have lived the road to MARITAL RECOVERY and it is not pretty and not for the fainthearted. In this life, there are risks that are taken and you do what you have to do.

Lemonman of all people should know about the mysteries of life. I tried to dialogue with him further about this in the past and he ignored me.

I am telling you as honestly, clearly and truthfully as I know how to. I am sure that I would not have recovered my marriage without having SF with my FWH! He had to know that I had changed in that respect because I had severely neglected him in that aspect prior to PLAN A.

I am happier now in my marriage than ever. I wish that for you and any other BS. However, I understand that each situation is different and each person has their own personal limitations.

Could something/someone be important enough to you to risk your life for it? In my case, I was willing to risk my life for my marriage and my H. I was at a point where I couldn't figure out a way to live this life without him. I did learn this during PLAN B. However, as we all know, PLAN B is scary and awful. Who wants to be faced with that lifestyle and that decision? Enough said....

To chime in again, on the SF issue, I have recovered my M, and I refused to have SF with my FWH while he even still had in-love FEELINGS for OW. For me, SF is not sex, it is love. I don't know how I personally could be with him in love, after just using sex to try to win him back.

Not saying this is how anyone else here feels, just letting THIS perspective also be known. Sometimes filling the SF EN, while an A is on-going, is NOT a healthy option for the BS ~ depending on said BS's belief system, etc. Not right or wrong, just healthy or unhealthy, possible or not possible, a good idea or a bad idea ~ on an inidividual, personal level.

Peace to you all.

Spidey

I think your message to him was 4.0

This means I happen to agree with LM on his point.

ENs are ENs, but placing yourself in danger trumps meeting any EN in my view.

Suppose his top EN was spending $$ such that he could drain all your life savings? Nope, not that one, either.

But this illustrates the value of this forum - seeing different views with logical bases. Stay the course, 'neak.

WAT

WAT:

I don't understand what you are saying.

ENs are ENS ?

SF is an EN according to the MB Philosophy. PLAN A involves meting ENs. This EN cannot be simply dismissed by saying ENs are ENs.

I had coaching with Steve Harley. He knew what I as doing. H HE DID NOT TELL ME TO STOP!!

This EN cannot be simply discounted here. I believe it does BSes trying to recover their marriages a disservice because others here do not agree with this aspect of the MB philosophy!!

There are safe ways to meet this need without going into detail!!!

LM, SS, WAT - you all make good points. Seems to me it all comes down to what you can put up with, what you tell yourself at the end of the day - so you can still look yourself in the mirror - and the "value" you stand to gain if you are successful

I think "value" is in the eye of the beholder. For me, there is no "value" once the disrespect of an A has happened. For me, the distance to reclaim trust and self-respect is too great. But that's just me. For those who are more forgiving, or don't take it as personally as I do, more power to you. I hope you end up as happy as you hope you will be.

I consider myself to have been "cheated on" - not by a real OW but by porno and active and rather cruel rejection. I can't imagine how quickly I'd have thrown my H out if there had been a "real" A. Would I have been willing to work on it? I seriously doubt it. There is a point at which self-respect and being able to live with the lack of respect from my H would NOT be recoverable for me. I'm at that point now - even though there was no A, and we are proceeding with D - so it is a moot point under the circumstances.

Suffice it for now to say I'm still alive this morning. I'll be back later this afternoon or evening while H is at work. So tired!

Spider said this:



This is not what I was doing! I was not having SEX with my WH. SF is an EMOTIONAL NEED, like the other ENs, not to be discounted in its significance and importance. In reading, HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS you will find it has high significance for men.

My H was the most sexual with me throughout our relationship when he was the most "In LOVE" with me. This was just one of the ways that he demonstrated his LOVE and still does. It is not simply a PHYSICAL ACT. It is highly EMOTIONALLY charged and MEANINGFUL in our relationship!!

It is not just about SEX whatever that means!!

I just want to make it clear that I wasn't having sex "to win him bacK". I was having sex because I wanted to show my love for him. I agree with Spider. I don't know how you would meet this need without engaging in sexual activity! Phone sex?

OK, mimi, I am not attacking you. For me, SF is a demonstration of my love for my H. And when I am with him, I feel that it is also his way of loving me. However, while he was active in his A, he was not "in love" with me. Therefore, I must conclude that he would not have been "making love" to me ~ he would have been having sex with me, a means to an end of not feeling sexually wanting or frustrated. That, to me, would feel like I was being used. I am of the belief that a person cannot be in love with two people at the same time. I know my H has this belief also.

When reading "His Needs Her Needs" recently, the reason SF isn't in one of my top 5, is because of the very specific description Dr. Harley gives this EN.

"A sexual need usually predates your current relationship and is somewhat independent of your relationship. While you may have discovered a deep desire to make love to your spouse since you've been in love, it isn't quite the same thing as a sexual need. Wanting to make love when you are in love is sometimes merely a reflection of wanting to be emotionally and physically close . . . When you married, you and your spouse both promised to be faithful to each other for life. This means that you agreed to be each other's only sexual partner "until death do us part." You made this commitment because you trusted each other to meet your sexual needs, to be sexually available and responsive. The need for sex, then, is a very exclusive need, and if you have it, you will be very dependent on your spunse to meet it for you. You have no other ethical choice."

For me, when my H broke that trust, and made his most unethical choice, his "exclusivity" was GONE. I rarely refused my H SF, in our entire M. I enjoy it very much as well. I have never considered SF to be a chore, or a duty. I considered it very fun, exciting, and we were both very fulfilled in that area. My H's A was about Admiration. When he broke our covenant by being with the OW, I considered him losing SF with me one of his natural consequences for his actions. And he did miss it. SF with the OW was a very watered-down version of the fulfillment he received from our love-making. In fact, my boundary of no SF sped up his de-fogging, his coming back to reality. Imagine if he received Admiration from OW, and still received his other top EN ~ just the way he liked it ~ from me at home? That seems like a whole lot of cake-eating to me.

BUT, that is just how it played out in MY circumstance. Every M is different, every A is different. This is just information sharing, not "who's right and who's wrong." Right?

Spidey