I'm sooo tired, and my Tylenol hasn't quite kicked in yet, but things are going really well. My boundaries, which I'm sure we will speak more of today when he wakes up, were eagerly embraced. He has shared quite a bit of information already, and has not been defensive or angry at all, just very humble and miserable and relieved.

WH says the hershey highway was just a joke between them, but understands that I don't automatically believe him on that or anything else. (I tried to put it diplomatically: "You understand, don't you, that it's going to take me quite a while to sort out what is true here from what is not?") WH is eager to demonstrate his new trustworthiness, and I am eager to watch him like a hawk to see how he's doing.

OW is definitely hurt, unhappy, anything you might expect, and understandably lashing out a bit. Yesterday she sent an email to both of us to tie up the loose ends regarding the business stuff, and it was very educational.



See? Even she can tell that I've gotten great advice. Without a good plan of action to implement, I would have been a whimpering basket case propped up somewhere in a corner by now. Thank you for making this possible.

This poor story is not coming out in any kind of chronological order, but yesterday before I had found out the lay of the land, I emailed a copy of my PBL to OW, as follows.



Perhaps I might not have blown my triumph bugle quite so loudly had I known that a "Dear OW" letter was already on its way from WH, but oh well. I meant every word, and if she wants to take what I said and assume that I was using the kids as some kind of bludgeon, I can't help it.

WH has thanked me repeatedly for what I did, saying it was just the right thing to bring him to his senses. WAT, I know you're going to be just unbearable after this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And I probably shouldn't tell you, but your estimation of the A being in trouble was also right on; WH says he was within a few days of the end of his rope anyway, and couldn't have gone on much longer himself. (Yes he could have, way longer than I could have stood for, but he will realize that later.) Anyhoo, your record as a prophet stands untarnished.

This is getting way long, but just one more comment. WH was already worried about how thin (read that 'skeletal') I was becoming, and now one of his priorities is to try and fatten me up to get some meat back on my scrawny butt. A worthy goal, indeed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

P.S. I don't know Errth. Errth, did you want to introduce yourself?

P.P.S. Mom will be sending support and encouragement soon, (she was working through this whole thing), and has invited WH to a family dinner tonight.

Good work, 'neak. Don't give me the credit - all I did was regurgitate to you the knowledge on this site and forum. That was the easy part. You did the tough part.

I really liked this part:
If pressure is the delivering the consequences of a decision, press on!

I cannot advise you on marital recovery. Please consider the broad experiences of those that can.

WAT

Here are my boundaries. Perhaps someone could suggest consequences? All I recall from Dr. H right offhand is talk about it and put more precautions in place.

1. Complete NC, and if contact occurs he must tell me. He thinks this will be easy, but when he gets up I will point him to Dr. H's articles on here so he can be prepared for the reality of temptation when it happens.

2. Honesty - total and complete. I told WH that if there was anything he wasn't ready to talk about yet, to just say that and we would come back to it later, but he has wanted to talk about everything so far.

3. Open-book policy - it was pretty close already, with me having complete access to his bank account and all emails, but there were several privacy fences up; one around his cell phone (or so he thought), and one around his IM. He knows I will be watching those closely.

4. Accountability for time - he offered to take me with him everywhere, and failing that to check in with me often and let me know what he's doing. In addition, he no longer cares if I access him on the GPS.

He knows all too well that any hint of secrecy will have me all over it like a vulture on carrion, and he knows he has trained me well.

OK, then thanks for being a good regurgitator. Ditto to Weaver, Mimi, Nikko, and all the rest.

im guessing you ran out of time before posting that counseling is mandatory too, right????

It actually hadn't occurred to me in that list because he had already decided that we needed it and started making the preliminary arrangements even before he had heard from me, but yes, MC is essential.

Where's your Mom been in this recently?

Hm-m-m-mph. Thank you for noticing. (a) Mom got sort of annoyed over the whole Ambien crack, and made a unilateral withdrawal from the thread to maintain a dignified, reserved, (and, as it turns out, temporary!) silence. OK, it was pouty, but as long as I didn't say anything, who was to know? (b) People who work 72 hrs./wk. don't have a lot of time for chitchat of any sort, and once I started this delightful schedule I had to hustle just to find time to read everyone's post each morning before I went to sleep and each afternoon before I left for work again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

At this point, I feel a bit like the elder brother of the prodigal son..."My fatted (yet strangely-scrawny) calf got killed for THIS?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Yes, I did tell her to have the five of them come over for dinner tonight, to eat with Notso's dad, her sister and her 3 kids, and me. You see, we needed hors douvres, and I thought he'd look good chopped up in tiny pieces, and impaled on sticks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding. We won't really make hors douvres out of him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But we ARE having falafel and could use some more stuffing for the pitas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He and I have a visit coming, although he doesn't know it yet, and the occasion won't involve a houseful of children. Or his wife, either, for that matter. I haven't made up my mind whether or not to take him out for dinner ("Hemlock on rye for the gentleman, please.") <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> or send him an email. There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach. Email has immediacy, and can be accomplished in my pajamas, and without a commute. A dinner at our favorite Chinese restaurant would be a very big treat for me (Oh, you thought it was for HIM? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) but very hard to work into my schedule. Maybe I should make him go get takeout and bring it back to me at home so I can stay in my pajamas reading MB until I have to leave for work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I actually have a night off this evening, and maybe I can post some of my planned analysis (and sincere encouragement...REALLY!!!) for general gnawing and chewing by anybody who wants to gnash. And then again, I may fall asleep over my falafel before it gets dark.

My big worry here as that this reformation will be temporary, and that all his (very) good intentions will fizzle during the difficult days that are still ahead. Notso barely got through this assault on her mind and spirit. I'm not sure she'd make it through another. It is my experience that most males are not given to much introspection or self-analysis. He would not be the exception in this. Who better to help him take a look at things than the one person who has watched this relationship from the very beginning, and who loves everybody involved in it? OK, I love SOME of the people better than others...but I love EVERYBODY some! I'm getting too old for this much excitement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and need more dullness in my life. Pray for bland. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color] Rogue-Rocket-in-Reserve

ok-- about counseling...not only is it mandatory but it is on the top of the list and also written out for how long at least you expect him to go an how often.(once a week for a year, two times a month for ---you get the point....)

do not forget this.......it is one of the biggest things we all screw up on....me included in the past....

now after saying that.....i am delighted to see mom show up again. hey mom(me waving).......i have a very clear idea of what im gonna be like when i get older now!!!!!! (im adopted....you didnt by any chance give a baby up in 1965 did ya???) i swear i thought i was the only one on earth like that.........lol

Hey Nikko (thndrnlitng waving to you). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> How scary is THAT--looking into your future, and seeing me looking back? No, I'm afraid I couldn't possibly be your mother. In 1965 I was a virginal 17 year old nincompoop (not that virginity and nincompoopitude should be considered synonymous terms; it's just that I happened to be both at the same time...although a 17 year old nincompoop certainly could not be considered to be an anomaly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) You'll have to ask my daughters whether it makes them feel better or worse to know that there's another one of me lurking out there somewhere. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Neak doesn't seem to be spending a lot of time on the computer lately, does she? A brief update--she feels they are making progress in the talking, crying, etc. and whatever (don't ask me--I don't know) that have gone on in the past 24 hrs. Penitence appears deep and sincere. He has made some suggestions for change that she was going to request, but hadn't gotten around to doing before he brought them up himself. She is hopeful. He has emailed me several times, not detailed...just re-establishing contact. He asked me to pray for him and said he loves me. (I SAID we were good friends before all this happened.) My deflector shields are not fully down yet, but I can certainly hope and pray with Neak that this recovery goes forward steadily, without another flamboyant swan dive into the septic tank. Too much overspray on the bystanders. I'm a labor and delivery nurse, so I get peed and pooped on a LOT! I'm used to that. This was different. Wasn't fun. Didn't like it. Don't wanna do it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

hey----the one thing i learned that is almost always hand in hand with recovery---and i learned this from my teenage sons addiction counselor.....with recovery always expect relapse.

sad but true.....it may not be a relapse in him contacting the ow again...it may be in the form of a strong run out of the gate, only to let stuff peter off as time goes on...

oh--and as a side note----(i just couldnt let this one go---lol) wouldnt 17 yr old nincompoop fit the bill for us----its was the virginal that put the quabash on it!!!lol

I have to apologize for sadly neglecting my loyal friends and supporters here, but yesterday and today most of my limited typing time has been spent in good communication with OW. Ok, I know it's weird, but it's been really helpful. The tone of her letters has mellowed quite a bit, it's mostly just us telling our side of what happened and understanding the un-understandable just a little bit better. When she wrote and said she was sick and had been unable to keep food down since receiving the email from WH, I wrote back and gave her the same apology I had given WH, about how I was sorry for my part in creating the situation where WH would be tempted to have an A. She thanked me for my sympathy, and things have been cordial. Naturally WH has been left out of this loop.

1st MC appointment will be in a few days, WH still seems to be in a good place and making good progress, and Nikko, I will be very sure to watch for signs of either type of relapse that you mentioned.

Must run or the beans will burn, but I'll check in later. Happy Mother's Day, everyone!

Hey, I posted and it's not here!

Ah well, Happy Mothers Day notso, you too thndrlghtng! You too nikko!

I realize nobody can tell at this point how long this recovery will last, or whether there will be setbacks, but at this point I can tell you exactly sorry he is... Neak says he suggested that sometime this summer we rent a 15-passenger van so he, she, their 3 kids, Neak's sister and her 3 adopted kids (that would be six kids ages 11, 9, 8, 8, 6, and 4), my dad (90), my husband (if he wanted to--what does he look insane or something?!), and I could make a trip to Montana to scope out the scene of Neak's next book. And he wants to camp. He thinks he's sorry NOW--wait till he gets back!! THEN he'll understand "sorry." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> By that time the big van will be thimble-sized, and if the children haven't killed each other, one of the adults will have killed one of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The only thing that could possibly make it better (har-d-har) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> would be if we kept on going to WI to visit my mom's family and see her grave...adding another week or more to the family fun, bonding, and togetherness. Nice gesture. Insane idea. But sweet. I think. Personally, I'm planning surgery for whenever the trip is. Nothing's wrong with me (at least nothing surgery will cure) but I'll have an amputation if I have to in order to avoid a traveling campout with 6 kids (who have been known to get, um, ah, fidgety, on long drives) and my dad, who was slow (he likes to call it "deliberate") when he was young, and has only gotten slower with each passing year. I've taken him back to Hawaii several times in the last 5 years, and each time we go, we do less, see fewer old friends, and take longer to do it, too. Still, Mr. Notso has to be extremely sorry in order to even suggest such an idea. For all he knows, somebody might actually take him up on it, and then where would he be? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Happy Mother's Day to all of you moms, too. If your mothers are still alive, take advantage of your chance to be thankful, and to make a mother happy.

Happy Mom's Day, Rogue Rocket!

'neak - I suggest you not continue your dialogue with OW. She cannot be trusted and very likely nothing good and plenty bad will be the result of your interaction with her. You can be sure her sole interest is herself - regardless of how she gift wraps it. "No contact" means no contact from EITHER your H or YOU!! Period. You continue this and your H will have an easy rationale to contact her as well.

This is not rocket surgery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT
---------------------
Kansas - proof that not all evolutional changes are beneficial.

Hey Neak, congrats. Just got done catching up on your thread. The only thing I have to say is . . . don't communicate with OW anymore. Your time and energy should not be taken up with her. Lead by example to your FWH ~ the OW has no place in either of your lives again. You have given her more than most, and she will have to make due with the comfort she has gotten from you already.

MC is great. It is important to understand the WHY of the A. Meaning, what can you control, in the future, to protect your M and family from this crisis happening again. You cannot control your FWH, you can only control you, and lead by example. I found that by understanding where our M was weak, and working to strengthen those areas, I was able to let go of the constant worry that we were always vulnerable to another crisis. I was able to feel "safe" ~ which, after surviving an affair, is always a relative term.

Take care, and keep posting. I know during the early days of recovery, my posts dropped off dramatically. And we are always here to bounce ideas off, and vent to.

Spidey

Point well taken, WAT & Spidey. I do have a limited amount of time and energy, and my family needs to be a very high priority, something along the lines of #1!

My main comment for today is that even just over the last couple of days, I have seen the wisdom of a good Plan A in practice. Because of the careful foundation that was laid over the last several months, there is lots of love on both of our parts to begin the work of restoration. FWH told me last night that the love I had shown him, the notes of appreciation, and the effort I had made had turned his [fog-induced] feelings of hate into feelings of love. But that's what this is all about, right?

I'm curious about the "normal" course of life after a breakup with an OW or OM. I wrote an email to Mr. Notso, the general theme of which was my belief that his real difficulty is not that his little Indian escaped the reservation. That was only one symptom of his larger problem, which is spiritual. I also stated that unless he fought this spiritual battle with spiritual weapons, he would doom himself, his wife, and his family to even more pain than they had so far experienced. As a Christian (and he is still a believer, if not a doer), what I told him is entirely consistent with Bible teaching. Notso said he got his feelings hurt <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> because I expressed concern over the possibility of a relapse. She said he is so disgusted by himself right now that he can't even imagine ever doing something like that again. Is this overweeing self-confidence a common manifestation of the newly-repentant in such circumstances? And if it is, what happens to it when it is steamrollered by temptation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I can guess. I just don't want to be right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Forewarned is forearmed. So, somebody--please forewarn. Thanks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mom - conventional wisdom agrees with you that an affair is a symptom of other problems. Your declaration that the illness is spiritual or any other specific malady is quite presumptuous on your part - and probably wrong.

Your care and concern for your daughter and son-in-law are wholesome and right - but at this stage, don't get too close to helping them identify their problems nor prescribe the remedies. Please do not deny them their own process in their own time.

WAT

Not So's Mom:

Please back off! Please don't communicate with Mr. Not So.

I know you feel like its a loving thing for you do. I understand your position as a mother.

However, this may put NOTSO in the position of having to choose between you and him. It's not a position that you want to put your daughter in.

I had to choose my H over my M. It made me sad at MOTHER's DAY. Your SIL is suffering a great deal of pain at this point in his RECOVERY. Dealing with withdrawal and his own personal demons, your criticism of him is not helpful at this time. Let NOTSO handle this on her own. In order to help her, it is best for you to sit back and listen. Did you use to rock her as a baby to soothe her? That's the most helpful thing for you to do now. Soothe her, console her, listen to her, don't try to direct. I wish my M would have done that rather than try to take control over the situation, dealing with issues and matters that she couldn't understand.