Bob,

Many blessings to you. You are giving back so much. I hope I will be able to do the same one day.

K

Dear Bob,

thanks for posting this.
Having been a terrible conflict avoider and giver all my life, I was fortunate enough to have good friends and family that always made me feel I had something to live for, even when my world seemed to fall apart.
I learned that word full of courage - "NO".

Does Roxy get any counseling? In my opinion she would really need good counseling to get through this terrible time. If it's in your power to convince her friends/family of this you would be doing her an enormous favor.

All my love and best wishes for Roxy.

Thanks soooo much Dear God for giving Bob a computer !! Your posts touch so many, so deep.

I just reread this entire post. Oddly enough, while it is very sad and heartbreaking, it gave me a strange sense of peace. Perhaps power. Power to do the "right" thing. Peace from the drama and chaos.

Anyway, I am going to take this newfound peace with me as long as possible. Do what will keep this peace within alive. Thank you so much, Bob, as usual, for being here for us.

God Bless Mike and his family.

Car

Oh that poor child. It is true we have all been so close. I was but my children still need me even tho they are grown. That is all that get me alive.

realtor, Roxy is trying to live her life, but she has such sadness upon her. And its a cliche but she's a lovely kid too. Not brassy or brash. A sweetheart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bob,
I can relate with Mikes feelings, and will not lie and say I have not had them. I have.

I also have a deep sense of loss for Roxy and Joan. Neither one deserved this. No matter what Joan did, she did not deserve this and I pray not only for Roxy but also for Joan.

The story is about a loss. Loss of love, trust, respect, innocence and utimately life. All of which are high prices to pay for a choice. Mike paid the ultimate price for his choice.

Joan made a choice, Mike made a choice, Hopefully Roxy will make better choices. But without counseling and unconditional love and support it may also be a sad choice.

BS's can relate to the feelings of loss. But also a WS can relate to feelings of loss also. They have lost our respect, love, honor, etc. once during all of this.

Thank you Bobpure for letting us in on your loss too.

JE

Who is helping Joan? Are her parents trying to help her?

What I'm really most concerned about is that roxy is blaming her mother for her fathers death. Sure Joan played the main role in creating the conditions that made suicide the likely choice but that was mikes choice that he made. I mean someone is going to have to explain that although roxy mom did play the main role in creating the condition right for mike to commit suicide it was mikes choice to commit suicide and she needs to realize that her mother is not at fault for that. I'm also concerned about Joan drinking, obviously she has become or becoming an alcoholic. Is she seeking help for her drinking at all?

I fear that Joan herself will commit suicide, I also fear that if Joan doesn't get help she will have lost her daughter permantly. It's quite obvios that the relationship is strained but it isn't beyond the point of no return yet, or maybe it is?

Bob has squid talked to Joan at all?

My ex-WW [first W] incredibly cruel behavior was very much like Joan's. All the pleading from me and our daughters did absolutely nothing to convince her until she finally hit rock bottom, attempted suicide and realized that she did indeed needed help very badly. She got therapy to resolve her pre-marital issues and is now almost a different person than the one I was married to.

Sadly you can't help someone who doesn't want help and while I'm not suggesting you avoid offering such a person a helping hand, just don't be surprised if the person you are trying to help tries to bite it.

TMCM

NL

Joan has withdrawn from 'decent' society and concentrates largely on drinking buddies and temporary BFs.

Roxy hates her mom, but to be fair she hated her mom before her dad's suicide. Joan had been a cartoon baddie for MOTHS before that.

I'm not sure Joan's getting help from anyone right now, and she has a very forceful personality that doesn't take advice well, even on practical topics like sport and fitness from experts like Squid.

Roxy is amazingly together considering, she hates her mom but blames her dad for wimping out.

Mike Suicide IMO is in attribution at least just like an affair in a case where the BS is very abusive pre-A.

An abusive BS can drive a WS to the edge of an affair, but the final choice to espond to the abuse by an affair is entirely the WS choice. SOME action is justifed but the immoral and destructive choice of an affair is the coure of action chosen by the WS.

Mike's choice to hang himself , and to ignore consideration of its wider consequences other than HIS immediate needs was entirely his own selfish choice.

BUT Joan contributed ENORMOUSLY to his readiness so to do by her vicious and calculated abuse.

Was it Philip Larkin who said "You parents really f'k you up" ?

A Horrible situation where everybody loses.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

* Bumped up as requested *

Update

I spoke with Roxy at a club BBQ on Saturday.

She found out that the day before they left for holiday, OM visited her dad and threatened and humiliated him.

Remember he killed himself a couple of days later while they were on holiday.

Roxy called OM on this ( he is back living with her Mom) and he attacked her, trying to strangle her. Her mom watched. Remember he is a fireman and large and fit. Roxy is a 15 YO girl.

She got away, left and called the police.
The police warned OM and took no further action.

Roxy elected to go and stay with friends.

She has remained there ever since, with no source of income.

Her mom has all her Dad's assets in trust because Roxy is only 16 and will not release them to roxy.

She is effectively homeless and is being failed by her mom, the authorities and her Dad.

Her friends parents are wonderful and have effectively adopted her for now, but that is no way for a teeneger to live.

She is happy BTW, amazingly not depressed or mournful. Getting on with her life.

I post this up once agin so people can see that the consequnces of affairs and BS meekness just goes on and on and on.

* bumped *

Bob, thanks for sharing this. Today is the first time I’ve read this story (I’ve followed the link you’ve provided in another post). I’ve seen this thread before, but for one or other reason I’ve never started to read it…until today.

This story is so sad…and most of all my heart goes out to that little girl. But gladly she ‘sounds’ like a fighter…and someone who will be able to victoriously overcome this… I think she will be ‘fine’…I really hope so. I wish her all the best in the world and my thoughts and prayers go out to her.

If it's fine with you, I want to link this thread to my most recent thread (the one to BS’s you have also read and responded to yesterday). I think this thread will be SO applicable...especially since it is a ‘real life’ story which contains valuable & important lessons.

Blessings,
Suzet

Suzet* this story is 'out there'. I have no rights over it having told it.

If you can use its message more broadly it has to be a good thing.

Roxy is becoming a fighter. But she is so sweet and having to undergo stuff that I only read in novels. Terrible.

There but for the grace of God go my kids.

Thanks Bob, I’ve linked this story to my thread.

Psychologists often describe depression as “anger towards another person turning inwards towards yourself” and I very much agree with this. This usually happens when a person can’t and/or is not allowed to express anger, hurt & pain towards a person who have wronged him/her and therefore he/she “suppresses” his/her feelings. That’s why it is SO important for BS’s to go through the WHOLE grieving process and not “forgive” too quickly in the emotional sense of the word. I’m sure Mike was severely depressed because of the whole sick situation and his W’s “fence sitting”... Obviously he suppressed/denied a lot of his emotions and in an act of despair committed suicide. Actually he has taken out his anger towards his W onto himself and therefore committed suicide e.g. “anger turning inwards”.

^ Bumped at ark's request ^

blessings and thanks my friend accross the pond...

Sad story Bob.

I am sorry Mike didn't(maybe) feel worthy enough or couldn't get past the pain in his life that this woman and her actions made him feel that he had to end it.

I wish every BS could see right up front their value and that NO WS and the sordid machinations of the A is worth taking their life for.Ever.

O

* bumped as I was requested *

* Bumped as I see several folks who seem paralysed by fear and who are internalising blame for their WS actions. PLEASE be brave, dear friends.

Remember what Roosevelt said :