My WW and I have been in recovery for about 2.5 yrs now. Since, we have had highs and lows as well as to be expected. From the day that we decided to reconcile we went to MC and I went to IC. This lasted a couple of months. Every since D-day, I totally understand that my WW is not the woman I once knew. I have tried to the best of my ability to forget the past and move forward with our relationship and maintain a positive outlook on things. However, my WW frequently at least 3 to 4 times a week has outbursts and the LB come out blazing. A couple of times it has struck me wrong and I fought back. Most of the time I let her vent and then ask her why she has to talk and act in that manner to communicate with me.

Our personal relationship on an intimate level is does not exist. I have made an honest effort to make her feel special and show her how I feel. It seems the more that I try to do that the worse things seem to get. I have tried to discuss this with her many times over the last couple of years and she simply gets mad and lashes out cursing at me and refuses to discuss “us”. Last night I finally got her to talk some. I told her that I feel like there is a barrier around her and she keeps me at that distance no matter what I say or do and that I cannot get close to her. She admitted to me that the barriers did exist and that she did not know if they could ever be broken. She told me that things like me not making her feel special built them. She told me that sexually that she feels no attraction to me due to this as well. Also, she felt like I “checked” up on her too much and that I spied on her. I told her that I was making the best effort that I could to move on from both of our past mistakes and try to revive the relationship. I also told her that if I can forgive her for the A, then she should be willing to forgive me for the issues that built the barriers. BOOM…that set her off. She told me that that may be the straw that broke the camels back and that ended the conversation.

I am emotionally and mentally drained. The desire to be wanted and loved is gut wrenching. My goal to have my wife back and raise our children together at this point may not be attainable. How does someone break a barrier that the other person may not be willing to come down? Am I just putting off the inevitable and need to move on with my own life focusing on my children? How long does a person love another without return?

What makes you think the affair has ended?

Melody beat me. Those are key phrases that say my heart, mind and body belong to someone else.

Protect yourself

The affair was with a former frind of mine. She told me it ended, I suggested the letter and that did not happen that I am aware of. I have tried to somewhat snoop and found nothing to prove that it is still continuing other than her actions. I do second guess this quite frequently. Crazy thing for me is that I second guess not her past relationship with OM but one that may have developed with someone else since. I have strongly considered contacting the PI that my attorney recommended when I filed for D over 2 yrs ago. So I cannot say that I am 100% sure an A is not going on.

Karl,

Unless you are in a state that is not no-fault, further prying with a PI can be devastating. Once infidelity has been established the BS needs to refrain from further snooping unless they have a very real masochistic streak.

Like I said before , please protect yourself and unless you HAVE to go there(snooping), do not do it. Assume the worst, hold yourself up to the highest standards, and you may survive with a small measure of self respect and love for your WW

The only reason that I have considered the PI is for my information only. The reassurance or conformation of my situation. Forgive my ignorance today..my mind is going bannanas today, but in what ways are you saying to protect myself? I have done that financially. Outside of my relationship with her, I am doing very well. My attorney is just a phone call away. My relationship with our children is the strongest it has ever been. I am told constantly by others how good of a dad I am to them.

My admonition to protect yourself is a concern over your psychological well being. We can pay others to protect us legally, financially and medically but no one can protect our most valuable possesions happiness,self respect,piece of mind and the spiritual care of our soul. I am enclosing a url that has helped me a great deal in my ongoing struggle.

Hope for Couples

Thank you tremendously Cymanca!!

Karl, I very much agree that you should hire a P.I. and find out what is happening here. Her behavior has affair written all over it. She is detached from you, is secretive and resents you checking up on her. Those are all major RED FLAGS that indicate an ongoing affair. People who have nothing to hide, don't hide.

I would hire the P.I. and find out what is really going on here. Your hands are virtually tied until and unless you have all the facts about what is happening. Once you get the true facts, you can assess the situation and move forward. Without the facts, you will stay in limbo.

So, please check into having her followed ASAP.

This is another HUGE red flag intended to bully you into NOT checking up on her. She has made a subtle threat to get you to stop. People who have nothing to hide, do not hide. And apparently, she has something to hide.


Forgive you for what? For spying on her?

I stated in our conversation that if I was willing to forgive the A, then she should be willing to forgive me for things in the past like not "making her feel special".

One thing she accused me of was spying on her on the computer. She told me that her internet was not working well and she was told it was due to spyware. I gave her a very quick lesson on that issue and told her to quit making accusations that she knows nothing about. She actually thought that spyware was somehing I would use to spy on her. HaHaHaHa.

Melody..have you or anyone that you know had any personal dealings with a PI? If so, how did it go?

Karl, she sounds very concerned that you will spy on her, which really sets off my red flags. She seems to feel that she deserves to be treated like a trustworthy person and she does not.

I don't know much about P.I.s but perhaps someone else can help you in that arena. I do know a bit about REAL spyware [keyloggers] if you think you might find something out on the computer. Do you check her cell phone bill?

Why don't you ask the attorney that was handling your divorce 2 years ago to recommend you a PI?

TMCM

TMCM, this is what I plan to do.

Melody..I have not installed a keylogger. I know of several different types to use but have yet to use one. As far as her cell phone bill, in the A before this was a key. Called OM constantly from it. Now, her bill is paid by her employer and I do not have access to it.

Karl, are you sure her cell phone bill is paid by her employer? Can you try to access it online? She may have just told you this so could justify having it sent to the office. Or, better yet, this might be something the P.I. could dig up.

A pretty good keylogger is ActMon. It will send reports to you at another location invisibly. It costs about $40 and was well worth it back when I used it.

I am sure it is. Her package at work consists of thme paying for it. I have tried to access it online with no luck.

Thanks for the info on ActMon.

Karl, understand that just because a PI doesn't provide pictures of W and OM entering and existing hotel rooms doesn't mean an affair isn't going on. Through this experience I have learned to greatly expand my definition of affair. My W still pines for ONS partner of over 3 years ago. It is very, very real to her and it continues to erode my M. So you have a lot of experienced MBers here, all telling you the same thing. Her heart and mind are somewhere else right now.

I understand the need to know what you're dealing with. But even more important than what she's doing is what she isn't doing. And that is committing to the marriage. Until you get her on board in the recovery process you will be spinning your wheels. So my advice is to get into IC, get your confidence back and then establish what is acceptable and not acceptable for you. You can't control her or make her choices but you need to protect yourself from them. That may simply mean emotionally detaching and living in a dead marriage until she decides to meet you half way. I'm not suggesting divorce but rather you take a couple of rounds off. Be the best dad you can be and the kids will realize mommy's not really here right now. Bottom line she is still very foggy and you can't fight that. It's simply not logical and hence the tone of your discussions.

WOE

Woe,
Thank you for your input. I agree with you

Going forward I do plan on being somewhat selfish and taking care of 1. my children and 2. ME. I have not made any attempts in the last couple of days to be convenient for her and be at her beck and call. I have been a doormat and totally realize that. The emotional detachment started on my end after the conversation I talked about in the first of the topic. Hate to say it, but as many have said here before...she has to make her mind up and I cannot do that. If she leaves it will be another stepping stone in life and lesson learned.

Karl,

I want to encourage you to follow Melody's advice. Your W sounds EXACTLY like my STBXW. The anger, distance,etc. Anytime her behavior was questioned she would get VERY angry and indignant which back then would make me feel guilty. I would say to myself that she must be telling the truth if she gets that upset about it. All the while she was having A after A without my knowledge. I tried in vain for years to try and make her happy and hold my family together. It's impossible to do that if she is not committed to it and you are only postponing the inevitable.

You are in a VERY weak position as long as you don't know what your W is up to. If you can find out that she is having an A, you will be able to bring things to a head by exposing it and forcing her to make a decision. Then you can at least start the process of deciding whether you want to try and save your M and she will be forced to deal with it one way or the other also. Maybe we are all mistaken, but it sure doesn't look that way from here. Good Luck.

starman

Starman,
How did you expose the truth about your STBXW? If this is getting to personal I am sorry and please do not respond.