I suppose I am not expecting a warm reception here because I've cheated, but I do want some advice.... here's my story.

I'm 45 years old and have been married 21 years with two kids, one high school senior, one sophmore. Back in 1999 I had a 2 year affair. My wife never found out or suspected. The affair ended because I read his needs / her needs. I did not love the other woman, she did not love me, and we had both agreed well before I read the book that it was all about sex for me and conversation for her. In what was actually really funny, we had a 3 for 1 deal. Every 3 minutes of conversation was 1 minute in bed, though we obviously did not keep exacting records. We sort of stumbled into it but once I read "needs" it was clear how we had gotten where we were.

The other woman and I had already agreed that we were not going to be together long term. Ironically, both our relationships with our spouses had improved as a result of the affair. With his needs / her needs as backdrop we agreed that we were going to continue to use each other for 6 months to stay in a "good place" so as to be able to keep fulfilling our SO's needs. It sounds odd, but we were not "in love". She just liked talking to me and I liked taking her to bed, but both of us preferred to be able to get what we needed from our spouse.

We both went home and laid it on the line with our SO's. She had her husband read his needs / her needs. My wife had already read it, but we sat down and discussed it. Here's the short version. 6 months later, I'd had to force my wife into counseling (We can't go, what will the neighbor's think?) and she was totally resistant to any change. My other woman, however, had great success with her husband and we fondly called off the affair as we had planned. We remain great (but distant) friends to this day and our secret remains a secret.

It's 4 years later. She's gotten worse at fulfilling my needs. I try hard to fulfill hers. I've stuck with the marriage and tried everything I can think of -- short of cheating again -- to get her to start meeting my needs. She just won't do it. She says "she can't." She says "I am trying to force her to be someone she is not."

I briefly toyed with the thought: "is she having an affair" but I hired a PI to confirm or deny. No affair.

Here's what I really think: It would have been better had she found out. That would have given her the emotional energy to change. I now understand what needs I was not meeting, I meet those but she is not doing anything to make me happier in the marriage.

I try to stay above it all, but I'm miserable.

What in the world should I do? I've been to 4 counselors and with her as I can get her to go. No luck. I've done everything requested except move out -- not OK with the kids -- and withhold affection to use as a bargaining chip with her -- not the basis of any relationship I want to be a part of.

I'm totally stuck and at wits end. As I look back over the last 10 years of my life, those 2 years of the affair were the very best. I may not have been in love, but life was at least good enough. Now it's misearable.

At the moment I am planning on leaving right after the youngest leaves for college.

Any suggestions for what to do? I'm 45 years old, 50 looms in front of me. Life's not forever. How much more do I sink into this before I say "bye bye."

Can you be honest with her about the affair?

Cat

As a former WS who withheld the information from the one person that had the right to know, I strongly urge you to come clean with your W.

No, I think the best thing you can do is print up your post and hand it to her. First off, part of the problem is that your lies prevent REAL intimacy. Women are sexually inclined when certain of their needs are met and lying and leading a secret life are not conducive to intimacy.

There will always be a wall there until you tell her the truth. How can she be intimate with a man who HIDES his true self from her? That is what you are doing. You have led a secret second life that has contributed to the state of your marriage.

Secondly, you must be honest about the lengths to which you are willing to go to have your needs met. She must be given a TRUE chance to make changes, but she can't do that if she doesn't know all the facts. She probably doesn't understand that you are willing to sacrifice her and commit adultery if your needs are not met. She doesn't understand that you feel entitled to get your needs met elsewhere if necessary. She has right to know this.

And lastly, you have no right to not tell her of your affair. Your affair is information about HER LIFE that is being wrongfully withheld from her. She may not WANT to be married to a cheater and that is HER CHOICE to make, not yours. To deprive her of that right is cruel and manipulative; you are merely keeping her in the marriage by lying about who you really are. She needs to know this so she can protect herself from you.

I mean no disrespect when I say the following.

By hiding the truth about your affair, you are denying her the right to choose to know who she is really married to. The image she has of you ,for the last couple of years, has been a false one. You have robbed her of time she could have spent rebuilding her life IF she had decided to end the marriage. Be honest with yourself, and don't say that you've hidden the truth about your affair to protect her, you did it to protect yourself from facing the consequences of your actions which might include the dissolution of your marriage. So if you truly love her, then tell her and let her decide what she wants to do with her life.

Lastly, in many cases, the revelation of an affair has been the wake up call that has prompted many a BS to open his/her eyes about his/her contribution to the bad state of the marriage and make the decision to work on saving/rebuilding the marriage. This is like waking up and realizing that your house is on fire. The problem here is that you have chosen NOT to wake up your W. How are you going to put out the fire all by yourself, when your W could be helping you right now to do so?

TMCM

Do you have any contact at all with the former OW?

Susan

Easy stuff first:

I probably chat with the other woman for 15 minutes a month or so on the phone. When I met my wife all those years ago, there was total fire and passion. I never had that with the other woman. We were warm at best. But, we clearly filled a need for each other for a time. Neither of us would ever have used the word love or anything like it. It's funny, once we saw a path to go back and try to fix our marriages, that's exactly what we did.

I read on the site quite a few of the folks who were "addicted". Maybe that was me, but I don't think so. Our parting was abrupt, but almost effortless. We went from about 8 hours of contact a week down to 10 - 15 minutes a month in the span of a day and it was fine -- well, at least for me, I believe it was for her too.

I do envy that her husband was responsive to counseling and working on their marriage.

Harder stuff:

I suppose I'm unwilling to disclose the affair while the kids are in the house. I'm suffering, but I am warm to the wife and kids and I honestly believe that the two of us are providing a warm and loving home to the kids. I'm not screwing with that right now.

Two years from now.... I question whether or not saying "I cheated" is the right thing. Some of the betrayed spouses here sound pretty bitter -- and for good reason.

I wonder if it's better just for me to go through a graduated escalation of "I am terribly unhappy in my marriage". Start with saying it forcefully, go to separation and if that does not work, divorce. I'm confident that any point on that path I would be willing to come back if she were really willing to work on the marriage. Counselor number 3 suggested that. His message was: "She's totally happy, why should she change anything? You should separate so that she understand what role you have in her life." Perhaps good advice, but not advice I am willing to act on while the kids are in the house.

I love my wife fiercely, but I just can't live unhappy like this and, though I wish I could, I can't choose to be happy in this circumstance -- though I have tried. People will tell you "happiness is a choice" (I think that was counselor number 2) and they are right, but not all people can make that choice in all circumstances.

If your parting was easy, abrupt and painless, why do you still have contact with her?

Susan

She calls once in a while to see how things are going. I think she feels a little badly that things worked out so well for her and that they did not for me. We chat for a few minutes and then run on. I'd be happy to ask her not to call, but I can't imagine how that would help either. I generally don't think of her until I see her name on the phone and don't think about her afterwards.

My life is my wife, my kids and my job. And the relationship with the wife is the suck and I don't know what to do.

Does you wife know that you talk to her?

Why do you feel the need to tell this meaningless (to you) person how things are going?

If things are working out so well for her, why is she still calling you?

Susan

Your wife deserves a say in what is in the best interest of the children and she is much better qualified. She is their parent also. She also deserves a say in her own life, which you are depriving her of by lying to her. Using the children to avoid telling her is a thinly veiled excuse to avoid the consequences that fools no one. You are interested in protecting you, and no one else.


They are bitter because of the AFFAIR, though. They are not bitter that they found out the truth. The idea that it is better to lie to someone in order to protect them from the truth - about their own life - is incredibly cruel, disrespectful and manipulative.

Honesty is the solution to adultery, not more deceit.

I would also point that you are the least qualified person to decide what is in the best interest of your wife since you are the one who inflicted the damage. Does the bank robber get to decide what is "best" for his victim? She needs to be protected from you. That fact rules out your qualifications to make such a decision.


It's better to go through a charade? Now c'mon, you sound like a bright man. You know better than that. Playing games and continuing to lie to your W almost guarantee that nothing will ever be solved.

Don't waste her time with a minute of counseling until you are prepared to tell the truth. Counseling is iffy at best, impossible when based on deceit.



Having an affair and lying is not "trying," my friend. It is profoundly destructive. It is preventing your marriage from ever developing the intimacy it needs to survive and thrive. However, if you are not prepared to truly show that you love her, by telling her the truth about her life, then the kind thing would be to let her go and find someone who loves her and cares about her enough to be honest with her.

But please understand that all the counseling in the world will be of no avail if there is no honesty. That is the least your wife deserves. It would be an act of love to tell her the truth and let HER make a decision about her own life.

"Why do you feel the need to tell this meaningless (to you) person how things are going?"

I don't. Need was your word I think.

She calls every month or so to ask about me. I am reasonably polite, chat 10 - 15 minutes and end the call. If you feel it will help, I'll be happy to either pro-actively call her and ask her not to call or to simply deliver the message. I don't see where it would help alot, but it can't hurt. I'd be happy to report back and let folks know if it made any difference.

"t's better to go through a charade? Now c'mon, you sound like a bright man. You know better than that. Playing games and continuing to lie to your W almost guarantee that nothing will ever be solved. "

I suppose I don't understand how I am playing games with her in the present day or living a charade. I definitely lied to cover my affair... but that was 4 years ago. If you are suggesting that she knew and is still harboring resentment, we can discuss that. But if you are suggesting that confession for confession's sake is the path to fixing this then I have a few more things to add.

Each of the counselors I've been to I have, within the first 5 sessions, told the story above and asked the question: "should I tell my wife." They all immediately ask about health issues. The other woman and I did an STD panel before we got together and, of course, I did one after and again 6 months after that. All clear.

Then they each say "no, don't tell her." Now there was a time I really wanted to confess. It was this Crime and Punishment kind of thing. But in each case the counselor suggested that such a confession with the affair firmly in the past and me not emotionally hooked on the other woman was actually more selfish than selfless.

My days of feeling the need to be excoriated over this are long gone and so I don't actually see how I am living a charade. I'm not cheating. I'm not pining for another woman. I'm not looking for another woman. I'm not looking to cheat.

I did cheat, and do recognize that the emotional energy from an affair might give my wife impetus to change. However, lets say I'd never cheated but had the same problems. Would you suggest that I go out and cheat to generate that emotional energy?

Hey NoIdeaWhatToDo, welcome to MB.

I can understand why you don't want to come clean with your wife. I also understand why your counsellors might recomend keeping silent about it too. You will find (I think you already have) that idea won't fly very well on these boards.

I would count myself among the numbers urging honesty. Not knowing your full story and all the intricate details, I won't shove it down your throat, but I do feel that you should keep an open mind about this.

Anyway, let's put that aside for now and look at some other stuff...

What needs of yours is your wife not meeting?

What would have to change for you to feel satisfied and happy in your marriage?

What have you tried already? What worked (a little) what didn't?

Obviously you feel that you've tried very hard to work towards a good outcome, but are frustrated that your efforts aren't paying off.

Lets see if we can't come up with some different strategies.

dewt

Obviously, I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that you are holding all the cards, and that's not quite fair. You know about your affair -- she doesn't. You are thinking about calling it quits in a few years -- giving her the exciting opportunity of looking for someone to "date" when she is into her (probably) 50s (after recovering from the trauma of separation and divorce, of course). You are deciding what's best for you, and going to implement it when you are ready.

I can tell you from experience that things don't stay the same -- they are either going up or going down. Sounds like your marriage, for the next few years, is going to go down, in a quiet sort of way. I know you say you've "tried everything."

You don't have to have a crystal ball to see where things are going, without some powerful shock to reverse years of status quo. She will continue to stonewall change, not knowing how bad things are; you will continue to tacitly plan your exit. The question is: do you want the shock or not?

And of course the second question is: is it fair for you to be unilaterally planning your wife's future, and letting her face the rest of her life alone? (Statistically, that's a likelihood, though not a guarantee.) You will "move on" -- in some senses, you already have. She will get a late-life "surprise." Doesn't sound like love to me.

By the by, I disagree with those counselors. The fact that you have reveries of the "best time" of your life during the affair, and your wife doesn't know about it, is enormously damaging to your marriage. She will probably freak if she finds out the truth -- don't underestimate her likely reaction -- but it's the affair, not the revelation of it, that is causing the damage. Everyone hates being lied to. Not knowing they were lied to is just manipulating them so they don't know what's going on.

Wow - I was floored while reading this. My stomach is literally in knots, which is why I try to stay away from here at times. Let me see if I follow this correctly:

1. You were unhappy with your life so you chose to have an affair with another married woman; in other words marriage vows mean nothing to you.
2. You pretended for two years that your wife and your marriage was important to you even though you were stealing time from your family to spend time with someone who supposedly did not mean much to you.
3. You jokingly refer to how you met each others needs on a three for one basis, which offends me greatly because it trivializes what you were doing - you were both committing adultery.
4. After two years of this sneaking around you got tired of leading a double life and laid down the law to your respective spouses about how you both (the adulterers) were being cheated out of having your needs met and something needed to be done - without revealing the terrible wrong you each were doing and had been doing to your respective spouses.
5. Now you wonder why your wife won't change and how you can make her change, but just in case she doesn't change you have your escape plan all figured out.

Let me clue you in - your wife probably has not had her needs met from you in years and you are reaping the benefits. Those "happy" moments you spent with your lover - well your wife was home taking care of everyone's basic needs and wondering why no one cared about hers. Because you see - for every three minutes of conversation you had with your lover and every one minute you were screwing her and the countless minutes you spent talking to her, planning to be with her, and thinking about how to be with her were minutes stolen from your wife. Not to mention the countless lies you told to get away with it.

I'm glad to hear that you did not love each other and that you understand it was because of your wifes failure to meet your needs that caused your affair - that really justifies all those stolen moments and lies you told. It is very clear to me that you are the "ideal" husband.

Why waste anymore precious time in this "empty" marriage full of deception - leave. You would be giving your wife the greatest gift because you would be releasing her from a dishonest relationship with a man who cares more about his own needs and someone's needs who he doesn't love than he does about his own wife's needs.

"Let me clue you in - your wife probably has not had her needs met from you in years and you are reaping the benefits."

Which needs were those that she was not having met and what benefits have I been reaping?

I suppose I should add that I don't really see much of a constructive suggestion in SpouseGuess's post. Yes, I could walk after the kids are gone. I don't want to. I'd rather save the marriage.

In case it is unclear: I was completely wrong to have an affair. It was a terrible thing to do and I will not do it again and have not done it again.

However, If one feels that redemption from infidelity requires a life of contrition we are just going to have disagree on that. I've done my time feeling like a terrible person. I made a mistake. I regret it. I'm sorry. I've prayed for forgiveness. I believe I have been forgiven. I will not do it again. I have not done it again.

That's enough for me, and if it's not enough for someone else, then their lack of forgivness can be their cross to bear.

NoIdea,
I posted on this board years ago myself while I was trying to save my 20+ year marriage. I wasn't successful at it, but my life is so much happier now than I could have ever envisioned!! After divorcing my ex I met the man that I should have been with all these years!! To say that he fulfills my every need is an understatement. It's like we were specially created just for one another! I wish the entire world could feel the totally amazing love and fulfillment that we have with each other!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm not suggesting divorce to you...but I am advising you to go to a therapist alone. Figure out what you need and why you are so unhappy. Your wife is right, you have no business asking her to change. You have to accept her for who she is and what she has to offer or go find someone that can give you what you want. I'd totally end all conversations with the former ow...no value there and it will be used against you. Unlike most on here, I don't advise you to tell your wife about the old affair. There is nothing to be gained and only her feelings and self-esteem to be hurt. The only reason you want to do it is to shock her into changing. She might change for a time, but it will backfire on you and then you two will part badly. Talk to a personal therapist. Many other therapists will agree with me. Most everyone on this site is in pain and are not thinking as clearly as they would if they weren't stuck in horrible situations with their own personal lives.

Again, I can't say what's best -- to tell or not tell. But I do notice a running subtext in your head about your past and your future that, I think, would very much surprise your wife. She has several landmines in her life, and she doesn't know it. It doesn't seem right that there are all these potential catastrophes that are about to land on her, that you know in advance.

Also:



What kind of needs doesn't she meet? What is making her say "I can't"?