There is no doubt in my mind that some woman and men seek out someone of another race. No doubt about that. The fact that all 4 of these women date ONLY black men is not a coincidence. I don't know what their reason is. Perhaps they are simply more physically attracted to them, I don't know. But if a white girl ONLY dates black guys and a black guy ONLY dates white girls (or any other combination) you can bet race plays some role for those involved.

Am I opposed to it? Couldn't care less except I view it as discriminatory in the reverse. I wouldn't do it, but don't care if OW does. My point is that my H's involvement with women who seem to admire him because he is black is not by chance, but is very deliberate. He needs to figure that out.

Even our MC agreed that it couldn't possibly be a coincidence. There aren't just an over abundant of white chicks (or any race for that matter) who ONLY date black guys that he would come across 4 with whom he'd get involved. There is something to it and I personally think it is because it required nothing of him. All he had to do to get there admiration was be black. That's easy enough-huh?

Black culture, like Asian culture, like Latin culture like any culture is different from each other. African American culture has a HISTORY of women being the dominate figure in the house. It isn't right, but it is what it is. I've had to relearn that as a Christian woman despite what I saw growing up (and my H too, remember he comes from a single mother who raised 3 boys with no help). The man is the head. I'm sure your H's friends whose black wives were disrespectful were so because of cultural differences. I probably would not have seen the behavior as disrespectful growing up because of what was the "norm" for me, and perhaps those wives didn't either. You assume that is the reason they left...it could have been any number of reasons. Men who leave their wives (or have affairs) love to find reason after the fact to justify what they did. No excuse to leave their wives even if it was true. There are different alternatives to leaving your wife and kids of 10 years.

I hope I didn't give you the impression that I am opposed to interracial marriages, because I really am not. The reason I married my H is because I loved him not because he was black. The white guys (and Latin guys) I didn't marry just weren't my match...but I dated them and would have married them if it would have been right. My point was that my H gaining admiration from these women simply because he is black (which I believe is the case) is something I can't compete with. I can't admire him for that...his beauty and his character, yes. But being black, like they did, nope.

That was my point.

I'm off to get a facial and massage! Much needed. chat later.
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I don't think it was a "black" issue. These women sought out your H for $$ and power. That is what they were admiring. I don't think these same women would also be searching out poor black men in the streets.

I feel you are angry at "white chicks" and perhaps not at the fact that the OW was a woman. Just as anyone who knew the OW might of had big breasts or a small *ss we could hold prediduce against women with big breasts, etc.

The OW was in the wrong just like our H's and again, please don't make being a "white chick" a bad thing...I resemble that remark <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


You are really holding alot of anger...still. Your MC really needs to step this up. Do you feel free to talk to you H about anything and everything, openly and honestly yet? I mean, really? The book you don't like describes these feelings you are having to a T. Let it go 2, let it be in God's hands now.

I know you are only venting to us and that is fine. So enjoy that facial!


holiday

Well, once again I totally disagree with you. The OW dated a total LOSER before my H and from what I understand (and saw) her current man is a loser too. So what do they all have in common? They are black. She isn't a gold digger, she's a black man lover. She probably liked him best because he had money and power, but if he didn't, she probably would have liked him anyway because he is black. And I believe (just like my VERY different religious views) that she (and probably the others) sought out my H (or he sought them out) because of race.

I remember my H telling me that OW told him once (before the A began) that she was surprised to see him married to me. She pictured him married to a white woman. She told him that! Positioning I'm sure. Like an idiot he fell for it.

None the less, the anger is what it is, comes and goes. Like I mentioned earlier I feel very similar to how True discribed her feelings a few days ago. I'm no more angry because she was white (don't know where you got that from) than if she wasn't. Again, my point is that IN MY SITUATION, this is an issue. Just like in your situation you are dealing with 2 A and not one and you are dealing with sex and not relationships like the rest of us. We have discussed this in joint and individual MC. It isn't anything that we are hung up on because the facts remain the same whether OW (or OWomen) where white or black, my H had an A.

Your theory on money and power is wrong too because 2 happened before he had either! Again, the commonality is race. What? you don't think some people get something out of purposely dating someone of another race? I'm not talking about people who "fall in love" with someone of another race. I'm talking about people who "intentionally" seek out someone outside their race. I've known many people like this, black, white, men and women. They make sterotypes and judgements and therefore go outside their race or to a specific race for something. What? I don't know. But there has got to be SOME reason OW ONLY dates black guys and some reason why ALL my H OW had a thing for black men. That is what I believe.

Well, we must be friends because we have successfully talked about all the taboo subjects, politics, homosexuality, religion and race!
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Did your H ever have an A with a black woman?

Nope. He had 1 REAL A with a white woman. The other EA's were Asian, white and Asian/White mixed.
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Hi guys...

I see you have been busy. Here are my thoughts, whether you want them or not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I can tell you from my own experience, I tend to like men in different ethnicities than mine better. I think Black men and Latin men in general are much more attractive. That does not mean I go after them, and, yes, my hubby is caucasian(although, he is a dark Italian, and looks not so WASPy). My hubby used to joke that if I DID have an affair, it would be with a tall muscular bald black man...b/c I just find them attractive.

Maybe this is b/c I grew up in an urban environment( I was one of the few white chicks on my block). Did these women? Maybe they admire black men, b/c of how they were raised. Or maybe on a subconscious level...since my skin is so fair and never sees any color, I am facinated with skin tones darker than my own...who knows. And speaking a little of that...when I lived in Utah...it was a sea of white...and I hated it. I did not like my kids growing up like that. It was amazing b/c when I would see a person who was not white...I would stare...not out of disrespect, but b/c I was so happy to see somebody that was different from the norm out there. So, maybe these women grew up not surrounded by black men, but so far away from them, that they need something different from what they are used to...I would think this would be the reverse also, but I do not know.

You have stated in the past, however 2, that race was an issue for you...that it made it harder for you to deal with all of this. I think I understand IN A WAY, since I have a really hard time knowing that the girl my hubby bedded was his physical ideal...I will never measure up to that. It is not race, but it an issue about a difference in me and the OW that is a major thing for me.


And I know that you both disagree with me here...but I have also admired the dominant black woman in the family. I think it is awesome that women stand up to the men, and take control of the family! I think more women should be like that...maybe not disrespectful...but dominant. Why should men get more respect than women? And you have to admit that in the past women have not gotten the respect they deserve. It is nice to see that some cultures think that women actually do have brains and can do things without the help of some man! It amazes me that women will defer the term head of household to men, when it all actuality it is the woman who heads the house in many more ways than the man. Like, I said, I know you disagree with me...but that is my thought <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Anyway, have a good night!


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The secret is to head the household without letting him think hes' not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...hee hee.

Funny, I too, grew up with few ethnic differences until my college days.

2, could it be that your H sought out a women that was "not" black as well?

Attractions happen sometimes without physical means. Admiration with men is a drug. Level doses keep them alive.

True, you're probably right about me disagreeing somewhat with your last paragraph. I still believe God made this a man's world and woman were to compliment his life. And I do believe in equal respect. Respect begets respect.

Good morning! Had a lovely date night with my H last night. We had a great talk about everything and he shared something really, really interesting.

He told me because he knew I was living my dream (at home with the kids, doing well financially, married to the 'perfect' man) he felt terrible pressure to live up to that dream. In a way he felt that if he became too 'real' with me, I would look down and him and might (fear of abandonment from childhood) leave him. He said he doesn't think it was a conscience thing, but something that counceling has made him aware of. Because he loved me so much he didn't want to shatter my dream by me realizing I wasn't married to Mr. Perfect, he often shared his more 'real' side with other women who 1) he thought he was having a very innocent friendship with and 2) he didn't really care what they thought of his 'real' side because in the whole scheme of things, they didn't matter. It kind of made sense.

He went on to say that although his EA's were inappropriate in many ways (that he now gets), he NEVER loved these women and he holds firm that he never loved OW either. He told me that she is "a tortured soul" and the only thoughts or flashbacks that he has of the A is of horror realizing what a mess he made.

He then shared with me that the A has changed his ENTIRE perspective on life (how God uses things for good). He said it didn't just make him love me or appreciate me more, but that he looks at everything totally different now, success, money, family, respect. He said because he had no role models (very true) he viewed all this through warped eyes. He feels alive in having the truth about all these things revealed to him as a result of this hideous situation.

It was encouraging to me because he seemed very sincere. I will try to hold onto to that for as long as I can. I did explain to him my side. That although I understand him and believe him to me it feels very deliberate that he choose her and the others to share his life with over me. I want him to understand that when I pull away at times, and that sometimes I get it when I draw close to him. He said he understood. It was a very good conversation.

Anyway, True, once again I think you articulated my point very well. The feeling of not being able to compete with the OW physical characteristics is probably what has me pre-occupied with their race. I knew my H has a thing for pretty Asian women just like I have a thing for latin men also! Sometimes that is what baffles me is that my OW, though cute, was not at all my H ideal woman...far from it...personality and appearance.

Anyway, looking forward to a great day since I'm "high" off our date last night.

I have a BIG prayers request. I value your prayers regardless of our views...he is the same God no matter how we view him. I have an opportunity to buy a business that first presented itself right before D-day. Because of that and some other factors with the seller, the deal did not happen. Last week, she approached me again about buying her business and once again I am totally in heaven thinking about the possibility. I have a partner (same from last time) still ready to partner with me. It would be a dream come true for me. Please pray however you want that God would allow this to happen. I wanted this before d-day so I know my passion for it isn't totally motivated by the need now to have something for me. I do feel this way a lot, that I need something new for me to put my passion into, since my dream of the perfect marriage is gone and instead of finding passion in someone else, I'd rather pursue a dream in something else. So we will be starting negotiations with her in the next couple of weeks. I will keep you posted.

Have a blessed day. Again, I love you guys!
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2,

What an awesome night you had...I am estatic for you!!

Yes, I will pray for you. I hope that your dreams come true on this one. Was it the scrapbooking thing? I am always looking for new stuff.

Holiday, it is ok that you disagree...I love ya anyway <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's cloudy and sunny here today keeping the heat down. (Painting a picture here.)
Going to have my green tea outside by the pool (H and daughter still gone until tonight from their trip) and say a prayer for all of us.

2, great that your H found his soul and can talk openly about himself. That is a major breakthrough for a man.

True...I love ya too!

holiday

Yes, this is the scrapbook store. I wasn't sure if I had mentioned it to you guys in the past.

Also Holiday, yes, I think my H did seek out these women because they weren't black. Why I don't know and I'm not sure if he does either. It was definately a 2 way street. Anyway, tired from a late night. Off to nap!
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Hey all.

I was just wondering if any of you had read "Every Heart Restored"? It is about healing after a H's sexual sin. My dad sent it to me, but I keep looking at it thinking I wish my H's only sin had been looking at porn, instead of this. I am not sure I want to read it all..so if you have read it and think I should then let me know!!

Hope all is well with you. I went into the big city this weekend and had soo much fun with some friends of mine. It was nice to be away from the kids and H for a day and not think about the affair at all. B/c ya know what, I didn't! It was also nice to come home and see that my family had truly missed me, and that my H was so happy that I was back home with HIM!!! Hee hee.

Anyway, TTYL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

At first I thought it was the book I read because "Living with your Husband's secret war" focused a lot on porn too. I know what you meant!

My MC recommended it, but only in a group setting (which is how I did the other book). My H read the original book (half during the A and the other half after) which was for men called "Every Man's Battle." Your book was the answer for the women.

If it is like Living with your Husband's Secret War, it was a decent read and the questions to answer was thought provoking and helpful. But I too felt the other book I read focused more on porn and not as much on an A. I read a lot of books and honestly none were helpful enough to snap me out of my grief. But the best read I did was not a Christian book but a book called After the Affair by Janis Spring. I thought of everything it did the best to explain why A's happen.

I am a believer though that there is no one size fits all. Some people might be able to identify with Dr. Harvey's Love Buster theory. I cannot. For me, I identified with After the Affair best in terms of what I believed happened in my situation.

If you do read it, let me know what you think. Is it the book or the workbook or both?
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Hey 2,

I read "After the Affair" as well, and found it very helpful, especially some of the thing she says about forgiveness. I think that is what finally led me to tell my H that I fogive him.

I also really enjoyed "Not Just Friends" and think that you would probably see a lot of similarities to your sitch as well. I know it was like reading a map into my H's mind during the EA and eventually PA part of the affair. I think your H and my H are very similar in what happened. It is just that the OW ended it before it got as far as your H's did, AND I found out sooner. I think if I had not and they continued that "just friends" part after the PA had ended it would have started up again...just as your H's did before the last time he broke it off and you found out.

I also like the love buster's thing. It made me see how easy it was for him to "fall" for her once she started meeting his most important EN...and how with some of the things I did or said, "busted" those needs. I do not think that is an excuse, as I feel a lot of my EN were not met, and I did not think of having an affair...but in general I liked it. You are righ though...one size does not fit all.

How is the business thing working?? I have been sending prayers your way...so I hope it all works out.

True

Hi Guys,
I just purchased "Not Just Friends"...

It's true, one size does not fit all!

I really liked "Love and Respect". And the "Love Busters" was fine too.

Again, there is no perfect formula for someone not to cheat only perhaps to provide a healthy enviroment for the future. We can all be as perfect as perfect can be, but it is still beyond our control, sad to say.

Had a very quiet weekend. H and daughter are glad to be home. Making chili for dinner.

Have a great evening,

holiday

Thank you for your prayers True. It feels so nice to dream again. As I mentioned before I felt I was living my dream, happily married to the love of my life! But when that dream was shattered, you become afraid to dream again. Could I really be shattered like that again?

The store is something I've wanted for a long time. Unfortunately, God has taught me patience in this and many situations that have happened in this last year (you know, like how OW is still working for my H). I say unfortunately because sometime God teaches us the hard way things we don't want to learn!

Anyway, the store is probably a long way off. There is so much that will have to go into it...first an audit to make sure the business is viable and how much it is worth, business loans, partnership agreements with my partner and agreeing on a price to pay for the business. We got hung up last time in what the store was actually valued at, then my life feel apart and the deal fell through. But now 9 months later due to a similar and unfortunate situation in her marriage, she is now eager (it seems) to sell again. God's timing is always right and I believe if it was meant to be it is because the time NOW is right.

Anyway, I appreciate your continued prayers. I will update you, but it will be a long process I'm sure.

Ironically it was my H desire to go into business for himself that ultimately led to his A. He acknowledges that. I was TOTALLY opposed to the idea (for a variety of reasons) and I strongly discouraged him from doing it. Within a month after he let go of the "dream" he got promoted and life has been great at his job ever since (minus her or course). He tells me NOW that leaving would have been a HUGE mistake, but at the time OW was all about blowing up his ego and telling him how GREAT he'd be in business for himself. Of course 8 months pregnant with our second child, the idea of letting go of the only income we had that was quite nice, to work by himself with NO benefits (which we ended up having a sick child and a $40K hospital bill) was not a good idea to me.

Looking back on it I can honestly say I'd change NOTHING. I never told him the idea was stupid (even though I thought it) and I never told him not to do it. I did tell him to delay it until after I was able to return to work (6 month old baby) as a back up.

Since she had NOTHING to lose by telling him how great he'd be on his own, he took all her words as "supportive" and me as unsupportive. Of course if he had never made the mistake of sharing OUR business and his dreams with another woman, then her opportunity to appear so supportive would never have happened.

Anyway, I hope he is supportive for the right reasons in my dream and not out of fear of upsetting me. I will keep you posted on my pursuit!
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Just a quick hello!
Hope this week is treating you both well.
Had an ultrasound yesterday and see the doc tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed that it's nothing too special, ha! as the only "surgery" I prefer right now would be a tummy tuck!
I will keep you posted.
holiday

All is well! Last night I told my H I love him and realized how much I meant it. I haven't said I love you like that since D-day. It felt so good, I said it over and over and over. Maybe because we had just had GREAT sex?! Anyway, I too am glad to see no post! That must mean all is well with everyone.

Let us know about the ultrasound (baby maybe?!) I'll pray!
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Of course my prayers are with you Holiday! I hope all is well. Please also pray for me as I go in next week about a suspicious mole on my back.

2, I am so happy to hear you feel that LOVE for your hubby. Sometimes great sex fools us into believing that everything is ok, but it sounds like yours was genuine!!! Be happy!

As for me, I realized yesterday that I can no longer look back and say at this time last year she was not trying to infiltrate our marriage. I have been doing very well, but that thought HURT. I guess, I knew that day would come, but it still stung a bit. I pushed it away fairly quickly, though...so I guess I am getting better at the dwelling thing too! YAY!!!!

I am ok today, except very tired and grumpy!! My kids go back to school next week, and I am counting down the days:) I love 'em to death, but am anxious to have some time with my youngest all by herself.

Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you both.

True

True, I don't understand what you mean about her infiltrating your marriage? Want to clarify? If it will make you dwell on it, forget it then.

I'll pray for you both. Rocked where are you?
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