TNT,

Sorry, I thought there was a problem.

Sounds like everything is fine and dandy and things are working out for you. That's great. I am glad for you.

Sorry if I came out a little harsh. But I can see by the way you defend him that all is well.

k

Nooooooooo, that was not at all sarcastic! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

TNT
Folks can only offer and opinion or advice based on the information you give them. YTour posts here pain two pictures so forgive us if we have given two sets of advice !

I know how scizophrenic affairs and early recovery can make us. We can have wild highs and des[erate lows many time sin a single day.

That why I had to train myself to detach from it a bit: treat it like a work project.

Regarding this update I would personally consider the affair active until your WH is absolutely transparently acountable. I belived teh A was over in my case but found out they were in contact. I had the additional drama of exposing AGAIN to OM GF with proof of their PA.

Its your WHs responsibility to prove the A is over, not yours to find out.

Plan A is designed to remind your WS of the reasons whay they should want to start again with you AND to give you the confidence to BECOME and REMAIN that confidant lovable person.

Therefore I would suggest staying in a detached plan A for a while to both encourage NC and to attract WH back home without fear of prejudiuce.

But not for ever. I suspect contact with OW is causing yoru WH to continue to fail his family here, but if there are other character flaws, such as those manifested by Faithful Followers' WH (valuation of personal caprice over family needs and commitments, serial adultery)you will soon find out and can take action accordingly.

Do not discount the re-entry price to your heart and your life TNT. Such is always counterproductive. To cheapen this price is ot devalue your own worth in yoru own eyes and the eyes of your WH.

all blessings

Thx Bob, ever the gentleman and so diplomatic! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I do not feel like defending H here, but I also feel as if the highs and lows have often made me feel as if I am living two very different scenarios. One thing I will say, is in between my initial post and the lasty pnes... I got back on my walk with the Lord and let go of my H. It is often a daily, hourly, choice to let go and let God. I am learning.

I do appreciate the help I am getting, been here for nealry 2 yrs now... and I do not want to discourage people from responding. However, I do feel that k got a little too sarcastic and I just fail to see how that helps anyone. Maybe that is just me.

I know it is up to FWH to prove his fidelity. I was trying to illustrate that above. Most of those things he is now doing is in response to things I mentioned or on his own accord. He is trying to show me he is being faithful with frequent contact with me and spending alot of time with his family. No, I do not trust him 100%, but who does after only 3 months?

I still do not have a clear picture of how this story ends. I do know that I can make it regardless of the outcome. It is not money or lack of resources that makes me stay, it is the deep friendship that has always underlined this M and I know the man I am dealing with. He will either get it straight or he won't. I will survive either way, and our children will move forward with me.

I have to let go of trying to direct and control the outcome. I feel setting ultimatums would not be inline with that intention. It has to come naturally and be real or it won't come at all. This is a mistake I made w/ H last A. I don't want it back cause it is comfortable, I want it back because there is a genuine desire to make our M work. I deserve nothing less than the "real thing"!

I am not planning on allowing this pattern to continue on into infinity, I will reach a point where I decide I have truly had enough and move on. I feel I am teetering on that line now, hence the Jeckle and Hyde routine! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

TNT,

My frustration from offering my lame advise and being rebuffed by you rationalizing your actions and thinking on the subject led me to the dark side. I apologize.

In your first post you said:

"How long am I supposed to be patient? How much am I supposed to endure in the name of "love"? It reaches a point where I feel, for my own sanity, that I must draw a line in the sand and say "to here and no further..." and I fear that I am getting periously close to that point..."

Instead of being proactive and confronting (which seems to NOT have worked on his past A's) you are enduring (in the name of "love") his routine until the point where you draw the line in the sand.

So you will be "reactive" and endure until...what...you snap? You blow up and maybe cause much more damage than a thoughtful and deliberate plan B to shoot him off the fencesitting, cake eating perch?

Also isn't plan A where the BS does all he/she can to meet the WS's ENs? You have stated that he was not meeting YOUR ENs. He is not doing the plan A, you are.

But you can only do the plan A for so long. That is why God made plan B.

Another bothersome thing is that this is, what, his third A that you are aware of? How much drama do you need in your life? Life is way, way too short to "ENDURE" this bullpoop.

You say "you fear for your own sanity". How about the sanity of you children. What are they learning from this drama? What will they take from this into their adult relationships?

Maybe, in time, he will drift back home. If so, will you find peace or will you be waiting for the next bombshell to fall?

That's all I got.

Stay strong and standing.

k

OK K, peace, alright! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I appreciate your concern for my children. Let me assure you that I had H leave the house for the sanity of my children and myself. I also seek to heal and move with caution becasue I want to be sure that I am not simply being reactive and D'ing my H for out of the momentary anger or frustration that accompanies As and the fallout after.

If I D him, it will be with a clear mind a peaceful conscience that I did everything possible to heal and repair. I owe myself that, I owe my children that. If it does not make it, it won't be that I didn't try. I do not want to look into the eyes of my children and feel guilt because *I* was not patient or strong. I do not want to look back and say "what if?"

I know that I cannot maintain a M on my own, and I will not settle for "just enough to get by". I am tolerating that right now with the hope and faith that there is more to come. I am human, I get weak and tired. I am incredibly inpatient, I want it all better and I want it {b]now![/i] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I am also a realist. I know the odds are stacked against us and that chances are we will not survive, or (God forbid) he will cheat again. But I also believes that faith can move mountains and that is where I choose to focus.

TNT,

"But I also believes that faith can move mountains and that is where I choose to focus."

Amen Sister! Give it up and all to the Lord. There is great power in prayer.

I and all MBers worth their salt will be praying for you.

k

EDITED TO ADD: This is not said in a sarcastic tone at all.

No, I know it is not.. thanks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tnt,

Time to put a noose around the WS behavior. A or no A, he isn't being a good parent or spouse. So he is being sort of a good parent but not a good one....you see the difference? You are also allowing your family to settle for his crumbs. You need the whole enchilada or some other casserole not just the uncooked stuff.

Ok, gotta scoot to work but w/b back later, ok? I have some suggestions but you may need to make sure you are on solid ground to read my next post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

He is not being a good S, but I do believe he is trying to be a better parent. His temper and ugliness has been temepered considerably.

You got me shuddering over what is to come!!! Dare I come back and look?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey, where's my post? I responded to you late last night. Ok will try to do this again.

L.

I was wondering bout that Orchid... still waiting patiently <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tnt,

This is now my 3rd attempt. Not sure why this copy and paste thingy isn't working but just so you know most of what I am about to post was said to confused42 on her thread.

So your WS is sitting on the fence eating cake. How helpful can he be to his family from that position? Not very.

You may not be able to get him off da' fence (that's his job) but you can stop bringing him his cake. ok?

Here's what I posted to C42:

C42,

Time to tighten the noose around the A. Implementing plan B can help do that but more importantly it will protect you.

If he is grooming another or even talking to anyone instead of you, he is conflict avoiding and w/b heading to another A (even if it with a guy), yep that's right...... So you need to address the real issues (his real ENs - not meet them ID them and let him know you know what they are but do not offer to meet them until he can clean up his act), identify your boundaries and implement them.

This is prime for plan B. He is vulnerable for attention and needs to get his act together. There w/b always a listening ear out there in the world. The other body parts come in stages as a result but you can't build a family or a life on body parts, we all need a whole complete person not body parts. That is what I see EA and PAs as, getting other people's body parts to meet selfish needs without fixing or getting help for the person as a person. This makes the WS a fragmented person and that c/b why they become so foreign to us. I mean this may sound gross but if you were to see your H's ear lying on the side of the road and then his thigh at the OW's house with his pants on the front lawn, would you always recognize it is him? Probably not and even if you did it w/b scary. That's what an A is, it is a scary recognition of our spouses in a disjointed way. Yuck, it is hard even to write but it sure describes why the A and the WS seem so foreign to us.

Hope this vivid description doesn't ruin your weekend. Just imagine that a WS is a disconnected bunch of body parts and not your H. You and your family want your H back right? Let your WS know you want him to go find your H and bring your H home not this disjointed guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Now Tnt, my motto is plan A your spouse but plan B the WS. R U ready to do this?

L.

OK, FWIW I do not believe he is still in an A, I don't have a reason to anymore.

Yesterday, quietly, calmly... peacefully I reached the end of the proverbial rope.

I laid it all, this is where I am, this is where you are. I basically told him I feel *MY* needs were not being met, that I was unloved and devalued, that he was clearly taking advantage of me and I was, frankly, tired of it.

I told him it was not my 1st choice to sepearte and D, but if that is what I must do to preserve my own sanity and sense of peace, that is what I must do.

After, he asked me to go to the store with him (H has to think over everything, he is just sorrta slow luike that) and even held my hand in the parking lot. I felt sorta sad but resolved. We even had SF last night and he stayed over, although I was kinda pushing him to the door...wanting him to know my feelings are the same.

On the phone a few moments ago he said soemthing about coming over this evening and I asked "as a guest or my H?" and he wanted to know wat was the differece.

I basically saaid he had a choice and it was now: start acting like my H and meeting my needs and committ t the M or I am stepign back and out of his life. I said he could have one evening a week and weekends w/ the kids, but he had to start paying child support. No more every morning and every evening. It is too hard on me, too confusing. This is not normal, this is not right, and I cannot do it anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I told him he needed to think really hard, and I think I am being incredibly generous giving him an option at this point, but I do tend to be a pushover! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

He has til this evening to poop or get off the pot, and I am going to need alot of support to create a good Plan B here if that is his choice.

I just can't go on like this anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Come on!! This is a HUGE step for me and nothing?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry TNT RN- I missed this earlier. I think that the concept is great- however my question to you are you capable of the follow through? It is a huge step, just to admitt that you are not happy and to say what you did to your H. However after a few days will you be able to stick with your decision? You have to say what you mean AND mean what you say. If this is just a scare tactic, please be
prepared for it not to go your way. I hope it does, just be prepared!!!

Yes, I believe now more than ever that I am...

He asked that I wait til Thursday... we have a MC appt then. I agreed, but only begrudgingly.

He brought me a potted plant today. Was very loving and sweet, kept telling me how much he loved me and how sorry he was...feels so much like too little, too late. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I told him that *IF* he cannot commit 100% to this M and move home and work on recovery with all he has, then I am done. I even laid out my thoughts on visitation and what I would expect for child support.

I am serious, and I guess I need to come up with a Plan B letter...

I told him the basics, I am not feeling loved, haven't for a long time. That he has made so much about him and what he wants. He has not treated me the way a H should treat a W and I am tired of being treated like less than I deserve. What is odd is he agreed with me!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What is so sad is this has been years in the making... not just this A!

And you guys are right...while there were "only" two PAs, there were other "instances". Most came out after the last A... the adult bookstore encounter, the woman he made a date with but broke to take me out, the chiropractor he tried to kiss but was rebuffed, the personal ad he placed on Yahoo after the last D-day and after I offered to take him back and heal!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> So many, so much.

Can I forgive it all and move on? Maybe. But not with a man who is still so obviously wrapped up in himself!! Not for someone who is unwilling or unable to meet my needs and love me the way I deserve. He even admitted that *I* have not been the first person he has been thinking of when "healing & learning"... I told him I wasn't even top 5... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

This is going to be extremely difficult, esp if it goes the other way and he starts to "self-destruct" like he has in the past... I can't sit by and watch that.

We do have three gorgeous children who will be heartbroken to find that Daddy is not a regular, permanent fixture here. But at the same time, it is not fair to lull them into this false sense that it is all "ok" when it is not.

Have I said lately how much I hate this?!

Wow, quite proud of you but know how this hurts. Believe it or not, this slow WSH syndrome is quite common. Mine used to take between 7 - 10 days on an average just to digest and respond to simple questions like, 'have you gotten your own auto insurance yet?'

Much of what you outlined is what I did with my Xws. He wanted to come home but could not live up to the standards required to be a part of our family and yes, his financial obligations still stood. I would keep plan B in my back pocket and he was sent out the door for even less than having sex with the OW. If I even smelled contact or did not feel safe, he went out the door. This meant he slept in his truck through 2 winters off and on. He didn't feel right going to OWs house but he wasn't good enough to be let back into our home. He was allowed to come and shower while we were not at home but he was not allowed to sleep over or spend time when I was there, unless it was to pickup up mail or drop off $$. A few times he picked up $$ but I held back on that EN. LOL!!!

Stick by your boundaries. With each exit, the terms to retrun went up not down. In time his anger subsided and the nice guy I originally married returned. His anger was another reason he was sent out the door. Again, it was my safety factor and not just the A that I used to measure his worth.

Quite proud of you, remember rough times c/b stil ahead so be prepared. It will get better soon.

take care,
L.

Well we will see... I cannot do the in & out thing... I am at the point where I want all or nothing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have some people who are actually saying I haven't given it enough time and now I worry... what if they are right?!

Ask yourself:

1. Am I ok with myself? Worked on plan A and comfortable enough to know my ENs and my attributes?

2. Do I know my boundaries and implement them as needed?

3. Am I stable in my convictions enough to stand up to a WS and not allow myself to be manipulated by the WS?

4. Do I miss my real spouse?

5. Do I love my children?

6. Do I know I have the right to be happy for myself and my family?


U go to plan B because you need to. If you give the WS 1 day, 1 month or 1 year that's your choice. When you are ready no one can say you didn't give enough time because they don't know when YOU are ready.

What s/b asked is are you ready for the consquences? If you are then you are ready to move forward. The WS can stay as a WS and out of your life or he can change back to your H and make himself invaluable and beloved to your family. U and your children deserve no less.

JMHO,
L.