I have heard of many a BS that have begun recovery slowly...

Seems like the case here since there have been so many false starts.

He needs to prove to you, over time, there will not be renewed contact...

Find out what his plan for recovery is...may take a month or two for him to develop and prove to you.

I would figure, AT THE LEAST, these requirements should be in place.

OW would move out of state (IN, VA?)
NC letter sent to OW
After that, regular visitation with the kids and you
Honesty and checking in
Giving to you all cell phone numbers, email accounts and passwords, addresses, phone numbers, etc.

Anything else?

And I would think she would have to be out of state with NC for at LEAST 2 months before I would consider WH moving back in...

counseling, counseling, and then some more counseling....

Dani,

Welp, it's a start. If you are strong enough to allow some contact, let him know you got the message and will have to give his words some thought. No date or another commitment, just thinking. Then go think....while you are working, taking care of the children and really really think whether you want him back in your life as is (damaged goods) or as the best he can be (your real or even improved H). Identify your boundaries. Pray for the clear mind and calm heart. Now your w/b put to the test. His actions w/b directed to getting you on his side. What it should really be is he working hard to get on your good side. Not just in word but permanent deed.

Believe me, his words sound good because it is showing a change but just like the WS babble to the BS that the BS' changes may not be permanent, this is when the BS can rattle the same jargon to the WS and let the WS convince the BS without giving any bs, ya know?!??! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Wow, thank you for all of the responses.

WH called again late last night and we talked for awhile. I am trying to 'feel him out'.

He told me where he had been the past week, and that he was 'sick of living this way' and 'wanted to be a father, a companion and a man again'.

His big fear right now, and it is reasonable, is his upcoming court battle on June 30th. Because he HAS messed up and contacted the OW and gone to her house he has violated his bond. He feels if he just falls off the face of the earth, or avoids the OW, she will tell the authorities this. He is probably right about the situation at hand. I told him that he needs to think about it, and come up with a goal that can meet a NC until the court date, but also takes his legal needs into consideration, and let me know what he comes up with. I am not sure how to approach this. If he just says 'go away' she will get him in further trouble for his past contact. He could petition to ammend his bond, and have another court hearing before his final hearing, in which he could ask that she leave the home. She would be at that hearing and would more then likely bring up his contact. In his words 'I f'ed up'
He requested a court appointed attorney, but hasn't heard back yet.

I believe and know to be true what he is saying. She will 'burn' him if he just cuts her off before court. Yet, he needs to come up with something, that doesn't feel like he WANTS the contact.

Danielle

This can't be the first time this kind of situation has ever happened to anyone. If he's sincere, he can talk to the court folks or a lawyer, or whatever, and get some help and advice. Continuing contact because of the OW's weirdness looks like a losing option. Don't the courts have shrinks? He really needs to talk to an experienced shrink. (At the very least, how about call that next-door cop from Virginia? He probably has some good pointers on who he can talk to to start straightening this out.)

Be careful, Dani, he's figuring it out, but it might be another round or two before it penetrates into changing his actions.

Also, I'm concerned about what he's saying. He's had enough. He wants a normal life again. What's he going to do for you? It's still all about him.

I don't see any real contrition yet -- just an exhaustion with his own folly. It's better than nuthin' -- but you deserve much, much more than that.

I think LONGER than 2 months is better in this instance .... Dani's husband has some serious mental instability issues and 2 months may not be long enough.

i"m just saying....

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I typed up a resonse and then poof it disappeared. Ok Dani you need to stay out of his drama and he needs to find his own way out of the fog.

BTW if the OW is that wacko then he needs to file an RO sooner than later. Doesn't matter that he has one on him. She is a wacko and by no means a stable person. That alone will give him some credibility. If he keeps giving into her demands she will use and burn him and if you stand too close you w/b burned also.

Stay out of the line of fire and far from the edge of the fog. Let him focus on the fact that you are in the clearing and let him earn his way back to reality.

JMHO,
L.

Thank you for the replies.

I just got a call from WH. He has a court hearing at 10am today for a temporary order from harassment and abuse for the OW. Yesterday morning I went to my MILs house and WH was sleeping. My MIL and I had planned to go for a walk on the path and then stop at the florist and get some dirt and compost to set up her flower bed. It was about noontime and my MIL and I had been gone for a few hours. We got back to the house, and WH was in the shower. Within 10 minutes the OW showed up and was banging on the door (obviously upset that I was there). No one answered. She called for about an hour. My MIL just ignored the situation (Confilict avoider?). When WH got out of the shower I let him know what had happened and he was PISSED! My MIL and I just went outside and worked in the garden as planned. WH got in his truck and left. Our minds could wonder as to where he was going. By the time I left to come home, he was still gone. He called me last night to tell me that he had gone down to the court house, listened to the 911 call from his arrest, filed an order of harassment and filed a complaint for her being there today. He also went to his landlord and took his name off of the lease and told her the entire story. She may go today and ask the OW to leave as well. My WH was very upset on the phone last night saying he was extremely sorry that I was there today when she came...that his parents house should be safe....that I shouldn't have to worry about a crazy psycho comeing to bother me when I am visiting...that I deserve to feel safe and loved and he isn't going to let the OW take that from me...etc.
I told him that I apprecaited what he was saying...but his actions would show me his real meaning.
Maybe that was the reason for the call this morning to let me know he had the court hearing?
I am really proud of him for taking these steps...I don't know what it means in the long run, but maybe he is begining to see....
He made a long statement to the police about the OWs violence and his inability to stay away from her...which is why he needed the RO...

We will see...
Danielle

SMIH,
He can not do the NC letter, because of the no contact order. By him getting the RO from her, that shows me the same type of thing.
He has given me all of his passwords and has been very honest about things, and all contact.
The OW is still in Maine. WH would like her to leave, and went to talk to the landlord about getting help with this. The OW has no money, and apparently her H has no interest in helping her...again. My Mother feels like it is my WHs responsibility to help her, or pay for her to move out...I don't feel that way
The checking in topic is something that he has NEVER been good with, even when we met. This needs to be addressed.
If all goes well by Sunday I plan to take the children to my WHs grandparents for a family cook out. WH would like me to bring the kids daily to see him, but I am not going to subject the kids to the drama. He respects that.

As far as a check sheet, that is how it looks. As far as a time line to 'move back in'....Well...let's just say it will be a while. I have no burning desire to tell him where I live or to have him at my house. He has way to much to deal with until he is 'ready' for that, or until I am ready to have him back home. I am happy for the progress and commitment that he is making, but moving home is nothing something that we are discussing right now.

Danielle

An essential condition for him moving back with you would HAVE to be that she is no longer in Maine. He brought this violent, aggressive, insane person into your life. She has to be out of it for it to be even remotely safe for him to come home. After that, unlisted numbers, and other precautions to prevent her from being able to find out from a distance and start it all over again.

Today was .....well it was today.

Last night she called my WH at 5am and was drunk, driving and saying she was going to jump off a bridge if he doesn't talk to her. She kept driving by his parents house. He called the police and let them know.
About 10am his landlord called (he had talked to her yesterday) that the police had been at the house and the OW wouldn't answer. The landlord tried to get her to come to the door several times but no luck.
WH and I were to go to court to finalize the RO that he initiated yesterday. Well, who could have guessed? He felt bad.... From the moment I got there, he was quiet. He still cares about the OW and feels bad for calling the police. I told him that he could only decide what he wanted to do, but that *I* was filing the RO myself for the children and I, because I am not willing to let his decision hurt the kids or I. I then started to leave. He followed me and said 'ignore me, let's go'.
We filed the paperwork, and gave it to the police office to serve her. He then got worried and upset. HE made the choice to do it, but was upset he did (in a way). He is worried it is going to piss off the OW, and doesn't want her mad at him. He still cares about her, and I know this. He kept saying he was sorry and thanking me for being there for him, and understanding him. I felt like I was walking on egg shells though. He is out with a friend now. He keeps saying that he is sorry, he wants this all to be over, but he doesn't know what he wants yet. One minute he says 'don't leave my side' and the next minute he says 'I want to be alone'
WHAT THE HECK?
He doesn't know what he wants. He thinks I want to just 'be married' and pretend nothing ever happened. I tell him that I know that isn't possible or what I want. He feels like it is his responsibility to buy the OW a rental truck to get out of here or something, I tell her to go to ____.
So...right now we both have a temporary RO against her, and will go back to court on May 24th to get a permanent one.

Danielle

I don't know how this could work with the RO.... but if I was your WH and I really wanted this knucklehead out of my life and out of my state, I would have my parents contact OW and give an offer for WH to pay a moving company to move her back to W VA.

It would be worth it. He pays the company directly (he does not give a dime to her). Once she's gone, she's her husband's problem again. And she will be less likely to cause you pain from afar if she doesn't have any addresses or phone numbers

Just my thoughts.

~ Snow

Snow,

I agree with you, in a way. BUT, what if she damages or doesn't return the truck? It would be risky...

I just don't know how to act around him...

Danielle

Hmmmm..... well, I was thinking of a company that actually drives the stuff down there and dumps it off at her place. She would just meet them there.

If you're thinking of Ryder or U-Haul, I'd ask them about whether it is possible to make her responsible for the rig once it leaves Maine.

As for your role... I think you need to stay in the background as much as possible and watch. Your WH needs to get OW completely out of his life, however he can do it, and then he needs to begin addressing his own mental health issues (like counseling). Then, maybe then, can you take a chance on merging him back into your life (first) and the kids' lives (secondly, and only if merging as a couple is successful). It will take some time.

~ Snow