grapegirl, I appreciate the info. I wanted to ask how you found out about your WH's A. Did you catch him or did he admit it to you? Also, does he justify things in his mind like my wife. I can see it in her eyes that she has relieved herself of responsibility because she thinks something in our relationship jusified what she did. I can also see that she is sorry she got caught but I do not see that she is sorry that she did what she did. Is that your experience also? In answer to your question, I have hidden money from my wife but not how she thinks. I take money and put it into our IRA and 401k accounts. She would never save a penny because she thinks that you should spend everything and you have social security and medicare to take care of you when you retire. I do not share that view and was tired of fighting that battle. Also, everyone in my family have everything that they could want. No person is doing without anything. Also as I stated, my wife gets her to keep her whole salary and spend it however she wants, no questions asked. As far as actual hiding money or blowing money on myself or some vice, the answer is absolutely not. Let me ask you or any other women on this board. I have outlined my situation fairly accurately with no intentional slant on the facts. If the role's were reversed, I could tell a woman what a man would do to make the situation right if he still really loved the woman and wanted to save the marriage if I or any other man were in the same situation. However, I realize that men and women are completely different. I would like a female perspective on what a woman, in the same shoes as my wife, would have done after getting caught if she still loved her husband and wanted the marriage to work out. If someone could provide me with this, it would go a long way in helping me to evaluate my situation and decide what to do.

Bob,

RUN. She sounds just like my first wife.

If there was not so much of an age difference, I would say she is the same woman.

Her attitude with money drove us into bankruptcy. Her running around resulted in an OC which I raised because I didn't want to lose our first two children. (I love that daughter as my own.) At the same time, she didn't want sex with me, and never offered to give me another child to make up for what she did. I never did anything right for her. And in the end, she was the one who left us.

That was the most awful 19 years of my life. I was always at the end of her list of people, if I ever was on her list.

Some years after our divorce, after I was a single parent for five years and was about to marry my present wife, she wanted me to take her back. She was between boyfriends and wanted a free ride. Needless to write, I told her NO.

Spare yourself some heartbreak. Let her go, keep the kids, and move on with life. I wish I did that from when the OC was on the way. On second thought, I am glad I have OC, just wish I dumped her mother long ago.

That's just the tip of the iceberg; however, I think you get the idea.

Good luck Bob.

RAG, I appreciate the info and the support. Please let me know what parts of my story are similar to yours and more about your story. This is one of the things that I am desperately searching for. I want to know what I am dealing with and want the wise advice of others so I do not make the same mistakes that others have made. I will await hearing from you in this regard.

It is early and I have to get redy to face the day. I will write more later.

bobsmiley, have you considered telling her that you already know that she had a PA and that you don't need her confession to "prove" what you already know? Let her know what the pastor said about this also.

But, you do need her confession in order to ever rebuild trust. A marriage based on lies cannot survive. Her refusal to tell you the truth only exposes her unwillingness to rebuild the trust she destroyed.

Tell her that you can deal with the truth, but you cannot deal with her continued lies. At least when you have all the facts, along with her willingness to be honest, you know what you have to deal with. Without that, you don't know how to proceed.

Have you considered contacting the OM and asking him about the affair and letting him know that you know? It would be interesting to see his response.

Bob, I just read your post on grovetuck's thread that she is away this weekend with the same cousin who covered for her affair earlier. Can I make a suggestion? Instead of doing nothing about this, I would suggest hiring a P.I., putting spyware on your computer, and tapping your phones.

This is NOT THE TIME to relax your sleuthing. This is the time to go into FULL DEFENSE MODE. You must find out what is really going on because your W is extremely destructive. You have a huge problem and you have to protect yourself.

P.S. and I withdraw my advice in my previous post to talk to her about this because I think she is actively doing this again. And why not? She got away with it before. Your best bet is to quietly gather evidence and expose her to everyone. If that doesn't put a stop to this, then it's Plan B time.

Melody, I saw your post and wanted to respond before I headed out the door to church. My WW has our two children with her this weekend. She also knows that our daughter will report to me everything they did this weekend and I always ask if their mother ever left them for any length of time. Therefore, I am not worried about this weekend. I have seen no signs of infidelity in the last nine months and I have been looking. Basically, I think that she is sitting back and hoping that I will forget everything with time and drop it. If she does then she has made a severe error in judgement. I have made up my mind that one year is enough time to give her to make steps to resolve the conflict. August will be one year since I found out and also includes my birthday. Yes, I found out two days before my birthday last year which made that day really special. During the last year, I have been to MC and I have made every attempt to push aside my male tendencies and communicate with her regularly. I also clean the house every other day because I heard that this is looked upon by women as an unselfish sign of love. I have cut back on my business time to spend more time with the children. I coach my son's little league baseball team even though I do not really have the time. But one year is my limit. She teachs fifth grade at the school our children attend. They are in their second week of summer vacation. If she does not come to me and show any sign of remorse, desire to reconcile and how she intends to give me back my peace of mind then my path is clear. This will show me that I am not the priority but the priority is the financial security blanket of the M that is going to be ripped off of her. We made one commitment eleven years ago that she broke. Now I have to decide if this is worth commiting to again. I have done everything that I know and that the MC suggested. The ball is in her court.

Hi Bob, I didn't realize the kids were with her. But I would still suggest keeping your eyes peeled to watch what she is doing. She shouldn't be trusted out of your site. Is it possible she went out without the kids?

As far as her coming clean and showing remorse between now and the 1-year mark, what will prompt her to do this? You say the ball is in her court, but it seems to me the game is over as far as she is concerned. Sounds like she is just biding her time until the heat wears off so she can resume her ways. What am I missing?

Melody, it honestly does my heart good to see your post. It has been my take on things all along that she is laying low until the heat is off as this is her only option. I also feel that she will resume her mid-life crisis if she can just get by this. I stated that there have been no ongoing signs of infidelity but I have overheard bits of her conversations and other people have reported to me that she is aching to kick up her heels again when she gets the chance. I am so glad to get a female perspective on this. I know the male perspective but any man is fooling himself if he thinks he knows what a woman is thinking. We look at life from two completely different perspectives. I think that is a good thing designed to keep nature in balance. I know from a male perspective that if a man gets caught, he will stonewall if the A is still going on or he really doesn't care about the marriage. If he cares, he will crawl back like a dog, beg forgiveness and state he will do anything that the offended party wants him to do to make things right. I needed to know the female perspective on this. I agree with you that she is not going to do anything in the next three months. However, I want one last good summer with my kids before they have to go through this and also I am not naive enough to think that I will get custody of my children. I also what to wait the year to feel that I did give it enough time. If she does not do anything on her summer break then there is no doubt that she will never do anything. Lastly, I have my own selfish reason. If things stay like they are and I have to file for D, I want to tell her on my birthday in August as a birthday present to myself. That might be inappropriate but it helps me deal with the situation. I greatly appreciate your insights.

See, bob, when I say I think she is just biding her time, I don't necessarily think that means she isn't doing something. It just means that she will be sneakier and cover her tracks better until you get off her back. Once the heat is off, she can be more flagrant, like she was before.

That is why I am very suspicious about this weekend "with the kids" at the cousin's. What better way to throw you off her track than to have the kids with her? I would be highly suspicious and recognize that infidels are very creative when it comes to meeting OP. Just because the kids are there, doesn't mean much, because that won't stop a determined WS.

I would be doing lots and lots of sleuthing right now, if I were you, such as computer spyware, phone taps and possibly even an P.I.

Melody, I have thought about your last post and you caused me to realize something. I checked and my kids confirmed that they never left my WW's side on the trip and they even slept with her. However, I would not put it past her cousin to introduce her to new men that she could go out with on subsequent visits. She would love for my WW to move near her so they could be partners in crime. I will surely keep my eye out for subsequent visits. My WW does not use the computer and does not have an e-mail account that I know of. She is also computer illiterate so she would use other means of contact. She has her own cellphone that she pays the bills on. Are there ways to access the records when I am not on the account? This would tell the whole story. She had a different cellphone when the whole past event took place. She gave it up because she said that she hardly ever used it and did not want to pay the bill. I know that this is probably not true and I will definitely get these if the D comes about. I figure that she gave it up because she did not want to get any calls from her acquaintances and was scared to call them to break off contact. She has a new phone but she lets my daughter use it all of the time for text messaging. This would be very risky if she was getting calls for another OM. I did tap the phone when I first suspected her. I got to listen to many conversations of how she hated me but never did she give any examples of exact behavior to her mother or closest friends. I got to hear one conversation of an evening out with her best friend at the time. It was the best friend whose husband caught her cheating and called me to tell on my WW about the party at their house when my WW brought a date. They went out to a bar and met two guys. They followed them back to one guys house. My WW went inside while the other girl and guy stayed outside. My WW told her friend that they simply went inside to look at the obituary of his wife that had died five months before. She obviously did not stay very long. Her friend did ask her if he wanted to see her again and she said yes. However, she told her best friend that she told him that she was married and that she would never cheat on me no matter what. I still anonymously gave her hell about the situation for a month or two then she found the recorder and four months of hell insued. I would not risk that again but I have heard of handheld devices that you can stand outside and hear cellphone and cordless phone conversations on. Have you heard anything about these?

Bob, you can go online and access her cell phone record with the phone # and the account #. If she is computer illiterate, that probably means she has not set it up online. Get her acct # off of her paper bill. This way you could see who she is talking to.

I am glad that you checked with the kids about this weekend and hope that you continue to keep your eyes peeled. She may be trying to set the stage so she can do that more often.

I haven't heard of any handheld devices that pick up cellphone conversations but maybe someone here has and will comment.

I wanted to comment on your wife "giving you hell" when she found the recorder. WOW. Does she actually believe that you were the bad guy in this scenario? C'mon Bob, she is the bad guy who had the affair who put you in that position in the first place. There is nothing wrong with checking up on a person when you have rightful suspicion; there is something very wrong with acting untrustworthy. As an untrustworthy person, she has no right to be "mad" because you checked up on her. Don't let her make you feel guilty for checking up on her. It is completely merited. Just be more careful that you don't get caught in the future! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Will you please start posting in paragraphs? Makes it much easier to read. Thanks!

Melody, I do not know how your personal situation is going but you seem to really have your act together. I am going to keep my eyes open but everything is eventually going to come out in the wash. I used to try to take steps to prevent my WW from doing anything but she is going to do what she is going to do and I really want to see what she is capable of.

I feel much better having a plan in place that I have thought out and intend to follow. I really enjoyed the thread about mistakes that people made in their situations that they would avoid next time. It provided many helpful tips.

I hope that I am not missing any signs with my WW. I feel that she is only here for the security. She has other friends who have gone through a D or are going through a D. These people thought their life was going to improve because they deserved more out of life but they are all in the dumps and going through hell. It still blows my mind that she would have a PA with her sexual issues. We went to counseling on these issues before any outside relationships started. Maybe she wanted to prove me wrong. On one of the early counseling sessions, she told the female MC that she did not like oral sex given to her and that she saw on Oprah that most women did not like this as this was something that their husbands enjoyed and forced on them. I will never forget the look of utter amazement on the MC's face. She informed her that she either had a mental or physical problem that she needed to get checked out. Magically this was something she requested after that day. I do not mean to be gross but this is one example of what I was up against. I could fill a book with the craziness that I endured only to have her turn into little miss hot pants for someone else.

I wanted to ask you something from a female perspective. I know what I or any other man would do if I got caught in certain situations but wanted to save my marriage. I do not know the female perspective. Maybe my WW is doing something that I do not understand but is a sincere effort. I want to exhaust all possibilities before I end things. If your personal situation was reversed and you got caught, what would your gameplan or actions have been to try and save your marriage. I know that the male and female responses and actions are different and I want to make sure I am not overlooking something from my WW as I want to be openminded and fair on something this serious. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

bob, everyone responds differently, whether it be male or female. [trust me, I am not saying that out of some allegiance to political correctness, but from my observations] I have not seen any pattern in behavior based on gender. However, from my perspective as someone who has watched these WS' for several years, your W is the typical remorseless WS who is not interested in recovery. If you want to see a truly sincere WS, go read deeplysorry, Kiwi, or Patriot. None of them act the way your WS is acting.

She shows no sign of remorse and even less interest in your marriage. She is only sorry she got caught. I suspect she is just biding her time for now until the heat dies down so she can go back to her normal ways and have some fun. She is testing the waters right now.

That is why I hope you watch her closely. I think the weekend with the kids at the cousin's was a way to soften you up, so to speak, so she can do this more often in the future without raising your suspicions.

But I very much agree with your strategy of giving her just enough rope to hang herself. Good idea to just back off and see what happens.

Did you check into accessing her cell phone bill online? I think that should give you a good picture of who she is talking to.

Hey Bob,

I just wanted to check in with you and see how you were doing. Things have gotten a little better the last few days, but it just feels like my wife and I aren't really connecting on an emotional level. It's very strange and dissappointing.

How about you? I don't like that the person I've been with since HS has all of a sudden become this alien.

grove, it's good to hear from you man. The last time, you were in a real bad place. Did you stonewall your wife on the D demand or did she back off? I got the D or separation demand when my WW was running around. I stonewalled her and she gave up on the idea. She knew that she did not have grounds for D against me and dropped it. What happened in your situation?

I have been in a very good place for the last week. Probably will get the rug pulled out from under me in some area soon. I am a few months ahead of you in my scenario so I know what you are going through. I first could not understand how my WW could do it to me and why was I being rejected. I felt like I needed to win her back from the OM for pride's sake. Then I wondered if I really wanted her back. Then I thought how perfect life would be if she fully came back to me and we fell madly in love again. Then back to how could I want to spend my life with such a piece of trash and how simple it would make things if she accidently pulled out in front of an eighteen wheeler.

Soon you will realize that your future and your happiness doesn't depend on her at all. You will remember how good life was before you met the WW and that it could be again. Once you get a good balance to decide from, then you can evaluate your relationship with cool logic and make the right decision. I might be completely fooling myself but I think that I am close to that point. I have more peace of mind now than in a long time. Once again, I realize that it could all fall like a house of cards. I hope you get to a good place in the near future.

Hey Bob,

I'm glad to hear you are in a "good place" right now. I'm somewhere between. I thought things were going ok, but my wife came home crying and depressed today. She feels guilty as [email]H@LL[/email], partly because of what she has done and partly because she's not sure she wants to stay married to me.

My wife and I have been together since we were 15 and 16 years old, so I don't have much frame of reference for life without her. But her behavior is starting to make me wonder if maybe I wouldn't be better off without her. We have a three year old daughter and I don't like to think of not seeing her everyday, but I also don't like living with someone who betrayed me and then isn't sure they are "in love" with me. Oh she loves me, she's just not sure she love me "like a wife should".

After this crap, I think I deserve better. If I'm willing to stay with her after she cheated, it feels kind of "embarrassing" to try and "win" her back.

She's going to start going to see a counselor next week and her NC begins around the same time. So maybe she will change for the better. I'm willing to hang in there for a month or so, and if it doesn't get better, than i will take things into my own hands and make a decision.

I went out for a few beers tonight, so I better hit the sack.

I hope you are doing well. If you need to talk sometime, let me know. I'd be happy to give ya my number and we could chat.

Take care . . .

Melody, I saw where you posted about a radio shack phone tap. How does that type work? The one that I got caught with plugged into the phone jack and then into the phone base. I hid the recorder under the bottom of the night stand. It was easy to find if you had any idea what you were looking for. I cannot chance getting caught again. What is the newest technology out there?

grove, I will try to send you my office number through a private message. We might be able to bounce some ideas of strategy when dealing with the WW's. I, like you, am ready to get something resolved or move on.