I think Mel is correct.

No way is the affair over.

More proof:
Of course she doesn't know! No active WS who continues their affair after discovery knows if they want to stay married! Those that say they know are lying!

WAT

My best guess is the the affair is over, but I can't be positive. I know they are no longer in contact outside of the work setting. What goes on while they are at work, I can't be sure. She does call during her lunch and/or planning time, sometimes both. I don't know. She swears it's completely over, but she swore there wasn't anything going on when I confronted her a couple times throughout the year.

I think I've decided to move towards divorce. She won't go for the Steve Harley counseling. I asked, she said she wouldn't do it. I could do it on my own, but if she's not going to be a part of it, I'd rather not do it at all.

I think she was back in the affair a month ago, but I caught on and I think it freaked the OM out. ( I actually had his cell phone records checked and found out he was calling her friend). Ok, the affair is most likely still going on, I think I just need to move on.

grovetuck, before you jump to divorce, will you please consider having a strategy session with SH? Let him assess your situation and see what he thinks. What he could do is give you a PLAN of attack. You don't need her to do that. I hate to see you give up when there might be a chance here to turn this around.

We'll see, I'd like to talk to SH, but to be honest, this whole thing is starting to drain my wallet beyond our means.

I might try to talk to him this week. Thanks for you concern and insight. It has been helpful.

I had a nice "mother's day". The wife had a good day, but i brought her down at the end of the night. I wanted to talk about what we should do.

I just can't deal with this mess. She wants to ignore it. She swears it's over and she just wants to work on the marriage. Unfortunately, she's not working. She's just sweeping it under the rug.

Tomorrow's a new day and she goes back to work with the OM. I'm breaking all of the LBs, but I can't seem to stop myself. I 'm just not sure I want to stay as long as she's ignoring the problems and my pain.

grovetuck, what do you mean by LB's? Asserting your boundaries and discussing the problem in respectful, but direct manner is not a lovebuster. A lovebuster is an angry outburst, disrespectful judgement, etc. Unless you are screaming at her and calling her names, I wouldn't worry about LB's.

grove - got any kids?

WAT

Thanks melody, I'm not yelling or name calling, just trying to talk about the relationship and clear up some of the inconsistencies in her story. I do need to talk about other things though, I’m a little stuck on one topic right now.

Worthatry, I've got a three year old daughter. We were in the process of adopting a second child when my wife's affair started. It was one of the signs something was going on.

I gotcha. It's a little hard, though, to talk about other things when this important issue remains so unresolved and critical to your marriage.

OK, I'm gonna give you a good talking to because I think you need it.

Take a long look at your daughter.

Now imagine her gone.

Can you handle that?

Now imagine her holding the hand of her new "Daddy."

Can you handle THAT?

Doesn't that bother you in the least?

So, you're just about ready to throw in the towel on your marriage and hence, your family, because you can't take this crap anymore? You've given it all you've got?

Take another look at your daughter. Is she not worth your hardest efforts to preserve her family???? It's gotten just too inconvenient for you to suck up your discomfort and apply everything you've got to give her the best life you can???

If you can't sacrifice any more for your daughter and her mother, just check out right now and perhaps she will find a better Dad in the future.

Did I make myself clear?

WAT

WAT,

I've thought of all of those things. We are still going to a marriage seminar this weekend and continueing with counseling. That said, I can't do this alone, or maybe I'm not willing to do this alone. My wife is "staying for now", but that's just not good enough. I want her to be active in the recovery and I don't think that is asking too much. I'm very hurt by what she did, and please don't forget that my wife most likely got a STD from this affair, so that's a little tough to swollow also. Add to that she's still working with the OM. My wife's idea of working on the marriage is to sweep this under the rug and get back to the way things were. Which was her going out 2 or 3 times a month.

I'm not happy and I don't think I can stay in a marriage where your partner may not be in love with me and is inconsiderate and disrespectful.

I'm trying, but I'm also aware that I just may not be able to get over the fact my wife broke her vows and after D-Day kept lying to me. Is it normal for wayward spouses to keep lying after being caught, sure I realize that is normal behavior, but it doesn't mean it should be acceptable behavior. I've been lied to enough and I want more from a partner than "I'll stick around until I'm sure that I really don't want to anymore". She's not committed to this marriage or fixing the damage she has caused, so how can I be?

I love my wife, but that doesn't mean that I should lay down and let her walk all over me. She caused this, in my opinion it's her job to fix it. If she doesn't want to, than I guess I've got my answer as to what I need to do next.

Thanks

grove - you're not gonna like this.


You've got to be kidding me.

In one breath you criticize her for not being committed to the marriage and in the next you sigh that you're not committed either.

Did I get that right?

Yes, everything you've described so far is "normal" stuff from an affairee AND, YES it's unacceptable!

It's also common, although not particularly "normal", for a BS to early on want to throw in the towel. Then they ususally realize that preservation of the family - when kids are involved - deserves their best efforts.

If you've spent your best efforts already file for divorce today. You don't need this forum. You are right and she is wrong. NOBODY will deny you that. But don't for a minute expect divorce to prevent her from walking all over you FROM NOW ON.

Here's the very much re-typed question on this forum that bears pulling out once in a while:

Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

I'm through beating up on you for now. Please make a decision to fight for your family for the benefit of your daughter. In the process you may discover that doing so is a fight for everyone else's best interest as well.

Salvaging this is VERY much doable. Reach down and find the strength to persevere. Many here have gone before you and you have tremendous knowledge available at your fingertips. Do not make a decision too early or you will never know whether you could have directed a different outcome.

WAT

grove

I think that you have already received excellent advise. Teachers are not like office workers in that they are isolated from eachother in their individual classrooms. Most teacher get a 30 min lunch and maybe one other break depending on the grade level. NC is very possible in that situation.

If she is doing NC and avoiding situations that might lead to C she is doing what she is supposed to be doing.

As Worth has stated all her behaviors are "normal" for a WS. She lies because she dosen't feel safe or she may lie because of her own childhood for example, "Adult Children of Alcoholics(and other abusive situations) lie when it is just as easy to tell the truth."

If you want your M then you have to look for ways to move forward and there are plenty of ways to get out of punishing the WS for life syndrom.
H

Hiker,

Part of the problem is she isn't doing everything she can to stop all contact. She refused to quit her job, she won't tell me when they met during the day (she has admitted the met before and after students arrived and left), but she won't tell me what went on during the work day. I've asked and she gave her normal no response answer. We didn't meet, but I have some wierd phone records that show phone calls during the middle of a work day for one and two minutes. When I asked what those were about she said she couldn't remember and didn't even remember ever calling or talking during the day.

I know that he has lunch duty during her lunch time, but that's it.

Do I think she is stilling having an affair with this guy. Probably not, but I do think that she has had some contact with him since D-Day.

It's hard to re-establish trust when the person that betrayed you doesn't seem that interested in being completely honest.

I sent her an e-mail today with information about talking to Steve Harvey on the phone. I doubt she'll say yes. I mentioned it once before and she refused.

I'm still carrying a lot of baggage that I'd like to get rid of, but I need a little help from my wife. If she's willing, I'm willing to try and work through this.

She has said that she would try and find another job at the end of the school year, but in the next breath she says that she doesn't want to leave this job for something she wouldn't like. She's kind of setting me up for her staying in the same job.

I just don't trust her right now, and she's made a big stink about me "snooping" anymore. No more stopping by where she works, no more looking at her e-mails at work, etc . . .

I know it sounds like someone still having an affair, I hope not, but I can't be absolutely positive.

. . . She refused to quit her job . . .

. . . she won't tell me when they met during the day . . .

. . . she has admitted the met before and after students arrived and left . . .

. . . she won't tell me what went on during the work day . . .

. . . I have some wierd phone records that show phone calls during the middle of a work day for one and two minutes . . .

. . . When I asked what those were about she said she couldn't remember and didn't even remember ever calling or talking during the day . . .

. . . I know that he has lunch duty during her lunch time . . .

. . . I sent her an e-mail today with information about talking to Steve Harvey on the phone. I doubt she'll say yes. I mentioned it once before and she refused. . . .

. . . She has said that she would try and find another job at the end of the school year, but in the next breath she says that she doesn't want to leave this job for something she wouldn't like. . . .

. . . she's made a big stink about me "snooping" anymore. No more stopping by where she works, no more looking at her e-mails at work, etc . . .

***I know it sounds like someone still having an affair, I hope not, but I can't be absolutely positive.***

Grove, when you look at your list the way I presented it -- what do you think now about being "positive?"

***Do I think she is stilling having an affair with this guy.***

What is your definition of an affair? If you can prove she's not actually having sex with him, are you really okay with that? Is a close personal relationship with another man okay with you, as long as it's non-sexual? (We call that an Emotional Affair, or EA.)

***Probably not, but I do think that she has had some contact with him since D-Day.***

Again -- are you okay with that? I keep asking because I think you are gritting your teeth and trying to convince yourself that "as long as they aren't having sex it's okay."

***It's hard to re-establish trust when the person that betrayed you doesn't seem that interested in being completely honest.***

Grove, virtually every BS here has had to deal with this. You are not the first and you will not be the last. If you are going to wait for your wife to fix things here, you will be waiting forever. That's what we are trying to tell you. YOU have to take charge here and stop waiting and hoping that she will magically wake up. We've all hoped for that and we've all been crushed by that hope.

She is not going to do that -- not by herself.

Here's my question: So far, she calls all the shots and just bullies you into backing off. End of process. What boundaries have you implemented, and what have you done to enforce them? Boundaries are your next step.
Mulan

I tried to do a plan a, but gave up once she refused the NC and no letter to the OM.

I had a very rough time when I first found out. I went through two months of throwing up, not eating and not sleeping. I got so caught up on finding out the details and that she wouldn't provide any that I just kept getting more and more obsessed.

To be honest, almost all of the boundaries I tried to set up, she's refused.

The only one she's kept so far (but she's complained daily) is the no going out to nightclubs with friends. She says she's a social person and needs to go out. She now agrees that going out until late hours was inappropriate, but she only does that reluctantly. I actually could use so help with this area. Right now I feel "unsafe" and very insecure about what's going on in my life/marriage.

I feel very negative about everything right now. I just don't see any silver-lining to what's going on in my life.

OK, Grove - this is my last post to you unless you get a backbone.

We understand the emotional upheaval you have experienced. We ALL had a rough time. I can trump yours.

But there is no "I tried to do a plan a, but gave up once she refused the NC and no letter to the OM."

You don't understand Plan A.

Start back at the beginning and digest Plan A as a self help initiative THAT REQUIRES NO COOPERATION FROM ANYBODY EXCEPT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you read Surviving An Affair?

If so, read it again. Cliff notes don't count.

Plan A cannot fail - at what it's intended to accomplish - unless the practitioner gives up on life itself.

You set the boundaries. Period. If she violates the boundaries, so be it. This IS NOT about you being instantly successful. You cannot change her. You can only change yourself. Setting boundaries is about CHANGING YOURSELF!!!! Not her!!!!

Establish your beachhead and stake your claim for what's good and noble! When you do this, she cannot possibly walk all over you. She has to walk around you. Get it?

WAT

What WAT said.

You keep thinking you have to have her cooperation to get anything done here. We are trying to tell you that you DON'T need her cooperation. Things like Plan A and Plan B are things YOU do ON YOUR OWN. You don't need her to do ANYTHING.

Get it?

She has already "refused" all boundaries. You can count on the fact that she will go right on "refusing" them. We already know she's going to do that. They ALL do this.

You don't enforce a boundary by asking her to abide by one and then being crushed and hurt when (of course) she doesn't.

You enforce a boundary by removing yourself and your support from the situation. That's because the only thing you CAN control here is you. You can't control her. You already know that. So stop trying already! Let her crash and burn. That's the best thing that could possibly happen with this.

***The only one she's kept so far (but she's complained daily) is the no going out to nightclubs with friends. She says she's a social person and needs to go out. She now agrees that going out until late hours was inappropriate, but she only does that reluctantly. I actually could use so help with this area. Right now I feel "unsafe" and very insecure about what's going on in my life/marriage.***

Of course you feel unsafe. You can only tell her that you feel unsafe and that you want her to put and your marriage first instead of going out clubbing with her friends OR seeing OM at work. When she refuses, (and she will) and/or complains bitterly about this, (and she will) just tell her that you are not her jailer. She is free to go out if she wants to -- kidnapping is illegal, even in Ohio, and you cannot stop her -- but she has been warned about how damaging this is and how you are going to have no choice but to remove yourself and your child from his damaging, disrespectful, homewrecking situation if it goes on.

When she asks what that means, just shrug your shoulders. (What it really means is Plan B.) Then go open the door for her and tell her to have a nice day/nice evening.

You desperately need a book called *Love Must Be Tough* by James Dobson. You can order it from amazon.com.

Grove, you've got to remember that she is COUNTING on you being terrified to confront her. She is COUNTING on you rolling over and being helpless. Please start reading, please order that book, and please don't give up.

You haven't even started yet.
Mulan

Grove

Don't just listen you have to do what Mulan, Wat say and give it some time...It takes time and patients...You must help yourself...your W isn't going to do it...She doesn't know how that maybe one of the "whys" she had the A.
H

I need help setting boundaries. I'm not even sure I know what they are. I read SA, but once my wife refused to quit job and not send NC letter, I guess I gave up.

What are boundaries? Maybe that's a good starting point.

My wife is angry at me. She thinks I'm making more of this than it is, or at least that's what she said tonight. She claims to have had Emotional Affair, but it sure looks like it was much more.

I'm stuck and I'm really just very negative at this point. I told her to go ahead and start the divorce. Maybe that's what I want, I don't know. I realize some people just can't get over their spouses betrayal, maybe that's me. I just don't know anymore.