Hey, that's nothing!

When my W was a girl scout troop leader for my DD's troop, I was an official girl scout! ...I did a lot of the driving 2 and from camps, helping out, on our local counsel.

-ol' 2long

When I was about 16, I was big into astronomy, and the math teacher at the church school I attended, and where my parents also taught, briefly felt my breasts at the annual school camp while he was supposedly supporting my elbows so I could look at a constellation through his binoculars. Nobody really talked much about that kind of stuff back then, and I was so shocked I never told anybody about it. I've always wondered, in the intervening 40+ years, how many other girls he did it to, and wished somebody had said something. Learning astronomy is great. SS, I advise not standing behind them, and at least 3 feet away. Today you can get accused for nothing, or misinterpreted for what you DO do. I hate it when the guilty get away with it, and some poor innocent gets blamed for something that never happened.

And on that upbeat note, have a GREAT time at camp! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Awnings and cooking sound fairly safe, though. What's for supper? Is it shade yet?

t&l

If you've read much of Neak's stuff, you know she's had a book published. Book #2 is completed, and ready for pre-publication editing. That's my job, and then once I'm done, she'll make a final run-through and it will be completely ready for the publisher. It's several hundred pages long, so lately I've been trying to do some every day so I can get it done within the next month. I sat down tonight, and carefully went through 10-15 pages, coming up with something I was really pleased with. Been up since yesterday, except for the usual nap, so I was tired and sore when I started, and stiff as a board by the time I was ready to quit. I celebrated my literary achievement by stretching my weary muscles, sticking my legs out as far as they'd go, wiggling my feet...and hitting the off switch for the computer with my toes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Now I get to do it all over again, and it wasn't even my favorite chapter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Who was it that said something about how if you really want to screw things up, you need a computer? Must've been somebody who knows ME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Nice weekend to everybody. Wear your capes of power. Red works best for Neak, but you can choose a different color if you like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Pepperband--

I've missed hearing from you. Can tell from your dramatic photo that you look great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> With all those birthday wishes, you I'll bet you feel great, too, especially right about now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Got any time for a bit of frivolous banter with a passing storm? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Best wishes,

t&l

Still thinking if I should say anything, but this thread is too good to ignore.

No trouble at girls camp. This was my 6th year, by now they must know I am safe. They also have at least two adult gals, with us guys when we teach our classes. It pays to be on top of stuff like that.

T&L, are you married at this point in time? I haven't seen you comment on that.

Neak and H are doing well?
T&L is doing well?

SS

Hi SS, thank you for asking. T&L is at work and probably won't be online till tomorrow, so I'll take a few liberties on her behalf. She has been married to my dad since 1971, and I am the oldest of her 4 kids. She works too much, but is fine other than that, and will be delighted that you thought of her. Glad your girlie camp went well.

H & I are doing very well, growing closer than ever, and healing nicely. There are a few bumps being thrown in the road by OW, but nothing we can't handle together. She is not accepting her conge with grace.

Our MC has been awesome, and both of us are putting a lot of effort into rebuilding stronger and better than ever. H has been so helpful and kind, and is making every effort to show that he has changed. I could go on at length, but I have some blackberries to slay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Happy summer, SS!
Neak

Neak,
So glad things are improving. I worry too much.
Don't let any blackberries sneak up on you.

SS

How exciting that somebody wants to talk !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'd pretty much given up posting, being of the opinion that it's silly to take the trouble to go online to be ignored when I can be ignored by my husband at home FOR FREE, without having to put forth any effort at all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Neak told me you had posted, but I'll have to come back later. I'm charge nurse tonight and don't want to get caught here in the back using the computer while everybody else is up front taking care of pts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm especially glad that you wrote, because I've been hoping you didn't misunderstand what I said about the Fondler that taught at my high school...and I wanted to clarify. (I come from a long line of compulsive Explanationarians, and we just can't help ourselves! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

OK, been caught once. Gotta get out of here before I'm caught again. Maybe later tonight when it Q _ _ _ _ _ down. I don't dare say the Q word this early in the shift. It angers the labor gods and they punish us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Hard to do much typing when my checking fingers are doing the labor limbo, the cervical can-can, the maternity macarena. Well, you get the idea.

t&l

Hi T&L.

How exciting that somebody wants to talk !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I'd pretty much given up posting, being of the opinion that it's silly to take the trouble to go online to be ignored when I can be ignored by my husband at home FOR FREE, without having to put forth any effort at all.

Many of us are in the same boat. I may be old, but I'm slow. No wait........Oh well, it's accurate.

Neak told me you had posted, but I'll have to come back later. I'm charge nurse tonight and don't want to get caught here in the back using the computer while everybody else is up front taking care of pts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


My MIL did what you do. She is mostly retired now, but I've heard the stories. It is nice to know which DR to see when I need something done. Yes, I have heard stories.


I'm especially glad that [color:"blue"] you [/color] wrote, because I've been hoping you didn't misunderstand what I said about the Fondler that taught at my high school...and I wanted to clarify. (I come from a long line of compulsive Explanationarians, and we just can't help ourselves! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

I think we are related - somewhere in that long line.
No, I think I know what you meant. This world is quite something. I have been associated with BSA for many years, and they teach youth protection classes. How to protect the youth, and how to protect adults from false charges. It pays to be careful both directions. I suppose it's what you call a fact of life these days - being careful, that is.

OK, been caught once. Gotta get out of here before I'm caught again. Maybe later tonight when it Q _ _ _ _ _ down. I don't dare say the Q word this early in the shift. It angers the labor gods and they punish us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Hard to do much typing when my checking fingers are doing the labor limbo, the cervical can-can, the maternity macarena. Well, you get the idea.

MIL transfered to same day surgery after a while. She worked early mornings, and was home in the afternoon, and at night. Seemed to like that better.

Have you applied Dr Harleys stuff to your H, and sucked him back into a good marriage, or is yours doing well enough on it's own?

SS

Just a quick answer to this question and then I'm going back up to rally the troops. I'm short one nurse, and the 4 I have with me include: a nurse who has 1 year of experience, 2 nurses who are just learning English (one from India and one from China), and a traveling nurse from Atlanta who speaks English just fine but is unfamiliar with this particular hospital and MDs. I admire the brave, adventurous spirit that led these 3 ladies to seek work so far from home and familiar territory, but it still means I have to pay more attention than usual to what everybody is doing, since I'm the one who would get blamed for anything that might go wrong tonight. I'd have less worrying to do I were in charge of a whole bunch of antique winged mammals (<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) like me.

I wouldn't call my marriage "good." I wouldn't exactly say it's doing "well enough on its own", either. But it IS, and has been for many years, in a fully-functional state of brokeness that works for me at this stage of my life in a way that would never have been possible when I was young. Of course, when I was young, the marriage was like glass stemware that had been thrown off the Empire State Building and, once it hit the ground, was then run over by a steam roller...so REALLY, functional brokeness is a huge improvement and something to be cherished for the upgrade that it is!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I would rather crawl naked over broken glass across the breadth of America to be nibbled to death by ducks at the Atlantic shoreline than to try and drag, push, lure, or invite my husband through even one more session of "What's inside YOUR head?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> But other than that, using the Harleys' techniques for marriage revitalization sounds like a great idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm all for people everywhere to make their marriages work, find happiness, gain intimacy, enjoy companionship, and so and so forth, ad infinitum. But I also believe that sometimes you just have to know when it's time to quit, too, and give both your head and that stone wall with the metal spikes that you've been batting it against, a [color:"red"] rest.

t&l

Before everybody starts beating up on me, um, I mean giving me lots of helpful advice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> about the whole death-by-duck-nibbling metaphor, let me try to explain...

There's not a whole lot of detail I feel I can comfortably give about my husband. His story belongs to him, and I don't really have the right to trot out his details with the freedom with which I can unveil my own. Let's just say that (IMHO) certain events of his childhood and youth have left deep, and so far, incurable wounds in his mind and his emotions. Even though you can't see any scars on him, as you could if he'd have had deforming external injuries, they are every bit as real, and in many ways are much more damaging. If he had no legs, no one would dream of his being an Olympic champion in pole vaulting, for example. The blind man wouldn't plan a career of precision power sawing...not if he's got a brain in his head, at least, or wants to have any fingers left on his hand. Neaksdad is emotionally and relationally handicapped. He is absolutely incapable of many interpersonal bonds (with everybody, including a spouse and children) that other people take for granted. He will remain incapable of these interactions as long as he chooses to bury his traumas, instead of bring them up and out into the open where they can be dealt with and reduced or eliminated.

I certainly don't have time, in the few minutes before I go to bed, to deal with any of my poor marriage contributions...and unlike Neak in her marriage, I have had plenty in mine. But over a period of several decades I have tried many, many times to break through the barriers he has erected between himself and others, and I can't. I'm not allowed to do so. I finally came to the point where it seemed to me that the kinder, more loving way would be to simply accept him as he is, recognize that he can't be something that he's not, accept personal responsibility for my own mental and emotional maintenance, and just let him be until (if ever) he's ready on his own to seek change. I consider peace, quiet, and the absence of nagging or complaining, to be my gift to him, and one of the few things I have in my power to do for him. It's certainly easier on me!

This isn't the relationship I was seeking when I was in my teens and 20s. I spent most of my 30s and 40s making the transition from quiet/open rebellion to calm/semi-calm acceptance. In my 50s, I'm very well aware that it's broke, but it works anyway, and I no longer care to try and fix it any more. I'm tired. I'm out of ideas. I have no energy nor enthusiasm for tackling a job now that I couldn't do successfully when I was young, peppy, and gung-ho. Whatever that makes me--good, bad, indifferent--that's what I am.

Enough pseudoprofundity already. I'm pooped. It's 8:30 AM and time for bed! Happy day to everybody. Anybody else want to chat? I'll tell you my story about the baby whose parents were going to name him Thor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Later, that is.

t&l

Post deleted by CSue

C Sue said:
I'm curious - what qualities does he have/or had that attracted you to him in the first place?

Me too, but I want more info than that. I want to know your love story. How you met, and fell in love. His strong points, and his weaknesses. Not in depth, not things that are private and not talked about (but you can hint.) Just in a general way. I'm going to talk about things CSue said, but I'll come back to you T&L. I have lots of questions, I hope you don't mind - and of course, you can always blush and change the subject.


To both you and SS - I have to share with you that I'm leaving next week for an SS type vacation...I'm going to Boy Scout Camp; and yes I'm a mom!

My first summer camp as a scoutmaster was in 1983. Things have changed a lot since then. Moms go often now, and women serve as leaders at camp too. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. (change is hard on me.) I bet you will have fun.

As SS said the BSA has an extensive child protection training program that I wish was mandatory for all adults to take because it is excellent information to know to protect the innocent.

It is mandatory for all adult scout leaders, but you must mean everyone every where?

This is no dream vacation...high altitude desert, strenous hikes to get from point A to point B, etc - and there are many points to get to throughout the day. I suspect over 10 miles are hiked minimum every day.

Lets see, If I remember where you live.......could be Phillmont, or Camp Frank Rand. Or maybe one I have never heard of. I have been to Frank Rand as a scoutmaster when I lived in Southern Co. No, maybe not a dream vacation, but different for you. I have been to 19 summer camps for BSA, and another 6 with my daughters. Many good memories. (SS is lost in the mists of time, but then the phone rings......)


Why am I going? Because my husband explained to me AFTER our children were born that in his family the boys are all late bloomers...So even at age 11 & 12 my two need for me to go or they won't go at all.

We had a boy in our neighborhood that had a hard time going. THe first year he "got sick" on day one of a 6 day camp, and his dad came and got him. The next year, he made it two days. The next year, his dad came, and he made the whole week. After that, it got better and better. I was his leader in Venturing (16-18 yrs old) He did well, and he is an eagle scout. Deserves it too. Now he is in Fiji on a mission for his church, and is doing an excellant job. Lives on a small island, lives like the natives. He is 19 years old. What a difference a few years, and some self confidence makes. He was one of the best youth leaders I have ever worked with. He just started out slowly.

.................All medical professionals tell me that when he grows up he'll be unlikely to be able to handle watching his wife's childbirth.

Have you had dad's hit the floor during delivery?

My brother did. He faints away when he goes to get shots, and in the delivery room. Everyone is different, I never did understand these things. One of the hard parts is getting the other kids to not tease. I always found ways to get rid of most of it, because everyone has their own secrets. If they think about it, they realize it's better to help each other than to pick on each other. It's just getting them to think about it.

Anyway, I'll be doing a tour of duty at camp next week, but unlike SS, I won't be a lecturer! Will be sitting quietly in the corner watching for any hint of medical talk!

I can't wait to hear how you did. Scouting is in my blood now. Be sure and go to the morning flag ceremonies. The spirit of America is alive and well, and you will see it expressed.

SS

Post deleted by CSue

One study reported to us that the D rate for eagle scouts is 7% in the US.

Much better than the average, but then, there are still that 7%.

I hope things go well for you.

Frank Rand can still be hot in the day time. It almost always cools down at night. Are you going to ride horses, and the whole thing?

BTW, I am impressed with your H's acomplishments in scouting. Life time OA means lots of service. I hope he has fun with it for many more years. The first two years were hard for me, but after I got my feet under me, I had a great time. I am in a training position now, and I miss direct contact with the boys.

SS

Post deleted by CSue

I've got to get ready to go to work, but will try to take a little time to write later tonight. It's a weird, convoluted story. I'm not embarrassed to talk about it, but I'm sure it would take me longer than a single sitting to even skip over the "high" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> points. Well, the points that stick out--whether up or down remains debatable. You will have to let me know if/when you get bored by it and we can move on to something more interesting. I certainly can relate a cautionary tale of how not to pick a spouse, run a marriage, and live a life. You know that old saying, "Too soon old, too late smart"? That's me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Neak and Neaksis, you are welcome to chime in here at any time, and may feel free to say anything you want, if you want. You lived this with me, although from a different angle. I feel like I should walk around the rest of my life with a big sign posted on me that says, "This is what NOT to do!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> On the plus side, when I'm not being a total idiot, I AM able to give lots of good advice from my life's experience, all of it, unfortunately, obtained the hard way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You mean, there's another way? How come nobody told ME? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If we're busy tonight, I'll just tell you about Baby Thor and delay wading into the Sad Saga of Susan the Stupid. Later,

t&l

Hey T&L! My dad's an RN...hearing you "speak" feels like talking to family.

You should get up a sympathy party with Neak and Neaksis. There's nothing worse than having a reformed-hypochondriac-now-registered-nurse for a parent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Do you know how SICK you have to be to get sympathy from somebody like that?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Not to say that your dad was a hypochondriac, but it's very hard to pull the old I-was-sick-this-morning-at-school-time-but-now-it's-out-and-I've-been-cured routine on a nurse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Oh Yeah !!!
I wanted to hear about Thor, but I got side tracked.

Promise I won't get bored, I asked for a reason. I agree you can't fix your H, but some H's will fall for tricks. Maybe we can trick him.

T&L,
I should tell you that I don't cry much on MB any more. The first few years reading all these sad stories were hard on me, but I got hard after a while. I had to turn a way from reading what you said, and compose myself. I have no idea if there can be any change made, but I want to discuss some things with you, and it may take a while. I won't get bored, because I need to know lots of things to make any suggestions at all.

The good thing is, this is just a forum and you can ignore me any time you want.

I hate to go from funny to serious here, but serious is necessarry sometimes.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

SS