I don't know exactly how to answer that. I am what I am today because of what I've learned by the things I did in the past. The way I relate to people, how I think, act, and live, all are the fruits (or weeds, depending on your point of view!) of what I have done. I would never, EVER have brought this up on my own, except that somebody asked. My children have known me in my rage, and they have known me with a changed heart. It is this testimony that I will leave with them when I die, that what God did for me, He can and will do for them, too. If it can help somebody else, I'm glad to tell it. Just to expose my warts, spots, wrinkles, and blemishes to the world as a sport? Not my idea of fun. I don't know what to say. How odd to be stricken mute. I'm not used to it. I'm very <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> right now. Sorry about that.

Anybody up for some grotesque, self-deprecating humor? I'm game if you are...

t&l

Pep - Consider me out of the way.

SS - Oh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Mom - Whatever that big horsepiddle is down south that is not Loma Linda. Manogram, gotta love it...

I'm just hoping I get to hear what you learned along the way ...and what your life means to you .... and what blessings you find in yourself....

what rages you now?
what sooths you now?
what lifts you higher and higher?
what really pisses you off?
what bores you to death?
what makes you want to puke?

don't allow me to bully you mute... tell me to shut the hell up and sit down

... and the very best .... where did God touch you?

In the seat of the pants, first. Later, in the heart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I will try very hard to shut up .... go on....

I never know what to say sometimes, but I'm reading right along. WHEN THERE IS SOMETING TO READ.

Ahem...........sorry if I interrupted anything.

Neak, things are going well at your house?

SS

Two dead babies in one shift last night!! One birth defect incompatible with life and one cord accident prior to arrival at the hospital. I am not in a good mood today, just on general principles. I realize medical people can't save everybody, but still, some days are just crappy.

I have been contemplating what, if anything, I want to say from here on out. I hadn't even GOTTEN to the part where I would've almost expected to get beaten up with a 2x4 or so, and if I can't make it running with the footmen, what on earth would I do when the horses arrive? (Jeremiah 12:5) I am firmly opposed to pain without purpose, if it can be avoided. A certain amount of suffering is inevitable in this world, but there's a humungous difference to me in having your foot amputated because of medical necessity and shooting it off yourself by accident. Both losses would hurt, but only one of them would accomplish anything useful. I would never have started The Sad Saga of OtherSusan the Stupid, in such a public forum, no less, if I had not believed to my toes that there could be profit in it for somebody reading along. It's embarrassing to air my dirty laundry this way, although the semi-anonymity of the forum helps; and there is enormous pain for me to go back through past events that I ordinarily keep VERY much out-of-sight-out-of-mind, even to myself.

I never intended to become a participant in this forum. I initially became a lurker, just to see what Neak was "hearing"in this place, so that I would be better able to encourage her and help her where I could. I stuck my nose into the fray when she was advised to analyze and correct her own "poor marriage contributions," and I could see that she was ACTUALLY going to try and figure out what they were and beat herself up looking for things that weren't there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Now if there's ANYTHING I understand, it's poor marriage contributions, having made so many generous ones of my own over the years, and that is what propelled me out of silence. Once I started yapping, however, I continued as the mood struck, still never expecting any particular interest to focus directly on me. Please don't tell me this is "caca del toro," thank you. It has nothing to do with self-worth, false humility, or anything else. It is simply that this was a site for people seeking help in marriage building, and I wasn't, so I could see no reason why anybody would pay any particular attention to me, beyond laughing at my jokes if they found them funny.

I work too much to read everybody's stories. However, over the months I have tried to look at as much as I could that caught my eye, and I have become weighed down by how very much pain there is on this site. So many people with so much hurting. People who never expected what has happened to them. People who can't believe life will ever be OK again, or that they can possibly survive the loss of the one they love. Maybe nobody noticed--it's not like I waved a red flag to call attention to it, after all--but I never have given, on any other thread, any kind of marriage advice. I told jokes or I sympathized...but I did not dispense advice. How could I? I'd never heard of Plan A or Plan B, or anything else you folks discuss. As far as plans go, I couldn't give anybody help with Plan DIDDLE-E-SQUAT. So I didn't try to participate in anything like that. That would have been silly to even try.

But I do know pain. I know loss. I do know what it's like to be both homicidally angry, and suicidally depressed because of the loss of love. I do know what it's like to be so deeply in the dark that I never thought there could even possibly be any hope for me again, and when I finally saw a glimmer of light at the end of my tunnel, it turned out to be a *&^$#@$^&(()*&^%#!! train! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I know that out of it, I learned that you can not only survive, but eventually thrive, in spite of everything. There's more, but you can get the idea. MB advice? No. Encouragement for the discouraged? That I knew I could do, and so when a question was asked, I answered it. Although, as Neaksis pointed out, the questioner didn't necessarily expect the level of detail which he received!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

When you're hurting, and somebody comes along and tries to cheer you up, there's a natural skepticism that flowers when you hear them say, "I understand what you're going through." How the heck could THEY understand when YOU'RE the one having the pain?! If I came along to somebody on this site and said, "I understand your pain. It will get better and you'll be fine," who would believe me? After all, what do I know about their pain...or even any pain at all? Being an encouragment to hurting someones was my motive in starting my tale--to let them know they did not need to give up, but should have hope. That even if they couldn't save their marriage, THEY themselves could still be OK.

Nothing I said was intended to offend anybody. I'm sorry if it did. If frankness is really valued on this site, going in both directions (not just AT me, but FROM me as well) I'm going to take the liberty to say that the things said about my past mothering really bothered me. I am painfully aware of the mistakes I have made, even without a guide dog, a map, and a lantern to show the way. But I don't like Dr. Laura, don't listen to her, and think she's often rude. It's my personal opinion, and I'm just as entitled to it as my daughters are to the opinion that she's great, and fun to listen to. Just because SHE says you can't be best friends with your children doesn't mean that I can't be friends with mine, and STILL be the mother. And if I ever died, unlike the situation with Dr. Laura and her own mother in 2002, it wouldn't take my children months to discover my decomposing body on the floor of my house, nor would they hear it on the news or from the police because somebody other than them finally found me. For all my mistakes, which I do not and never will attempt to deny, I'll take my family over hers any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Even my sons (28 and 30) call me up several times a week just to chat, without any request on my part for attention. I am so blessed to have each one of them, far more blessed than I deserve, if the truth be told.

I've got to get ready to go to work again, so will fade back into the woodwork for now. Again, may I say how sorry I am for any offense given. My hope was that I could help. Another other result was entirely unintentional.

t&l

Speaking for myself -

I don't think you offended.

One of the reasons I asked, was that I sensed pain in your heart, and I wondered at it.

You have so much going for you, in so many ways. So, I wondered.

Makes more sense now.

I'm still not sure how love turned to ......whatever it turned to.

IN fact, I have been here (MB) for three years, and read thousands of stories, and I still don't know.

Oh, I understand the hard facts, but, I mean.......HOW???

It tears at my heart, it sometimes haunts my waking thoughts and my dreams.

So I asked about your love story, wondering.

Often it is, that people are more than they believe they are. How about you and your H?

And, how does someone get from where they are, to where they want, and need to be in their marriage. Especially when one won't play?

Sometimes it can still be done, I believe that. So, I wondered.

It is best to ask Pep straight out what she meant, on the odd times when you don't understand what she meant.

This could be one of those times for you?

BTW, I turn 50 this year, I identify with a lot of what you say. Please don't think that when someone comments about something you say, that they don't want to hear from you (speaking of your sense of humor.) I think it is said out of love, and concern. I think you know what is meant by that.

You don't have to change what you do, just read, and learn if you see new things.

If you don't do the rest of the story, at least finish about the phone call. I think half the hits on this server are people coming to see what happened.

Pep, explain in more detail.
Please.

SS

Please accept my apologies. I agree with you about Dr. Laura. She can be rude and many times I don't like her. I was not using her as an example we should follow.

I used to like Dr. Phil. I don't care for him much anymore either because he has become too sensational in my opinion.

However, everyone has something of value, regardless of who they are. There is something we can learn from anyone whether they are Dr. Laura, Steve Harley, a MB poster (new or old) or a beggar on the street.

Of course mothers and daughters can be friends. If you want to share your secrets with your daughter, that is your option. It would not be mine, but that is my choice too.

I'm sorry if I offended you. YOU are of value here. Thank you for sharing your story.

Susan

I hope you will continue on with the rest of your story. I, for one, what to read of any contact you had with the lost love, and how you evolved to resolve those feelings in a positive way and remain in your marriage.

Please go ahead and finish the whole story.

Wonderful SS, thank you for asking. Recovery is going well, and another great MC session is scheduled to begin shortly. The biggest down side is that OW is threatening to sue over the $ owed her. I am trying to make arrangements, but she keeps sending 'secret' emails to H basically threatening to sue if she does not hear from him. Without telling her specifically that he turned over the care and keeping of that email to me (if there's a way to block any address on that one, we haven't found it), I made it very clear that he would not contact her under any circumstances. She just keeps sending these veiled lawsuit threats.

It is a testament to how well things are going with loving, attentive, repentant AJ that all this qualifies as merely an annoyance.

Well, how much are you talking about here? Hundreds or thousands of dollars. Untill you pay back your Waywards debt, the OW will still have some power in your relationship (depsite what you say). Surely there has to be some way to get a loan and retire the debt he owes her. There is always a way.

Sour... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In the neighborhood of 15k. We can probably knock out at least half of it through the funds still owed to our just-about-done-for business, and H just got what looks to be a very promising job that would retire the rest fairly quickly.

And it's not that she doesn't have any power at all, but it's way more limited than she would like. The stress over worrying if she's going to sue is less than optimal, but she can't make him contact her - never could. It's very frustrating for her this time around.

Still, I will take your suggestion very much to heart and see if there are any other as-yet unexplored avenues for taking care of this more quickly.

Ooh, Lemon, I think I'm on to something. You got me to thinking outside the box, and I may have this figured out. Probably won't know for sure for at least 3 weeks, but if it succeeds, you're a genius!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Genius makes me VERY nervous!

t&l

I've got 2 pts. and this is not a chattable time, really it isn't. I just wanted to say that I DID finish the story about the phone call, acknowledging that it would be mean to quit at that particular point. It was written yesterday on the 18th at between 5PM to 9PM, depending on what time zone you've got your MB clock set to. If we can get these ladies delivered, I might be able to come on later and blather a bit more, but right now I have the need to be immersed in my documentation, the curse of the nurse.

Maybe I can tell you about the time I was shaken awake by an angel, just in time to save me from a high-speed crash. How do I know it was an angel? Well, I was alone in the car at the time my shoulder was grabbed and jostled. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gotta go. Hope everybody is sleeping the sleep of the just, and dreaming of better times to come. If nobody were paying ME to be awake, I'd be asleep by now too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

t&l

t&l, I for one love your gift for storytelling. I think there is useful stuff here for others and yes entertaining too. I, like SS, am interested how you went from point A to point whereever you are in your life and M now. You obviously raised some amazing children along the way. BTW, so sorry about the babies. That has got to be so hard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What do you mean? Our most common shared trait, actually, is that each of us thinks our spouse is a bit on the, um, odd side! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

In nursing, probably in life, sometimes you're the dog, sometimes you're the hydrant. Last night we were definitely the hydrant, and I'm too tired to feel like turning over any of my compost this morning. Thought I'd skip through the last wk. or so and comment on several little snippets that caught my eye as I read your responses. Camp fire story hour may resume at a later date.

t&l