Occasionally I must take a break from the frolic along the feminine hygiene products aisle to work and sleep. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

t&l

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I THOUGHT my pillows were phlughghier than usual lately! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I just read the title "8000 Views of T&L". It sounds like something a fly would see with those multi-faceted eyes they have! Scary. I'll keep my swatter close by.

I think it was SS, but I don't have time to go back and read through looking for the exact question if I want to finish this before my break is over. We had patients in every nook and cranny tonight earlier, including one waiting in the hallway in a wheelchair until we could find a place for her to lie down. It has since mellowed out and I got to take a break (because I got both my ladies Delivered and Ditched in a timely fashion), but there's no way tonight that I can linger over the keyboard or I'll be attacked by irate nurses who also want their breaks and can't leave until I come back!

The question was about what attracted me to HP in the first place, although there may have been more to it. Before I answer I want to say that I hope by now at least most of you can believe that if I wanted to "make up" answers that are palatable, pleasant, or politically-correct, I've got enough "gab" in me to do it...and to probably make them sound reasonable, too. So when I tell you things from my past that don't make me look good, or sound silly/irrational/stupid, it's because I'm telling the truth about it...even if the truth is uncomplimentary to me, or silly/irrational/stupid. One example of this was quite awhile back when somebody asked me why I plotted to kill my husband instead of just getting a divorce, and when I said it was because I didn't want to ruin my reputation, certain skepticism was implied. Sorry. That was really the reason. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> If I were going to concoct a false answer, I certainly could have come up with something more flattering to me than THAT! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The sad fact of the matter is that I'm not sure I ever really loved HP back when we met and married. I loved the idea of somebody claiming they loved me. I loved the attention. I loved the idea of getting married (as opposed to the actual condition of being married, which didn't turn out to be so hot!). But basically, as I've said here and there ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />, Neak) on the thread, from my point of view, the main reasons we got married were: (1) He asked me. (MS didn't.) (2) I wanted children, and he was my ticket to that consumingly all-important destination. (3) I experienced great guilt over the fact that I had allowed myself to be pressured into premarital sex and felt that I had to "make an honest woman" of myself. (Not that this absolves him from the [close your eyes, girls, and skip a sentence or two] intense pressure that was brought to bear on me, but I am the one who ultimately opened the door, metaphorically speaking, and said yes). Solid foundations indeed upon which to build a durable relationship! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I also mentioned before that I was attracted by his infectious laugh, and how the little children loved him. I certainly appreciate the exquisite irony of now being married to a man who seldom laughs, and who can only tolerate children in limited doses. There is also a great deal of irony in remembering how I basked in his attention back in those days. Now I consider it a successful day when he doesn't pay any attention to me at all! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Well, we're doing a C-section for twins 10 wks. who are premature, so I guess I'll have to quit having fun and make myself useful. Will try to finish the Saga this week, and then I'll draw my conclusions and lessons...which I do very well for somebody with no artistic ability whatsoever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

t&l

At last another paragraph! Thank you! Looking forward to the rest.

I always thought that most people probably get married for the exactly the same reasons you stated except maybe they do feel they are in love. So I believe you.

t&l,

I believe you too. I'm not questioning you here - but I have to say I'm surprised about the "guilt". Maybe it was because of your upbringing....but those times were the 60's right? Free & easy sex for most right?

One of the reasons lots of people come to read is that many of the things discussed are common to nearly all of us.

You are honest about your feeings, many read and agree but don't come out and discuss their own past, or admit having the same feelings.

It's interresting the things I think of as I visit here. Lessons I have learned, comments I would like to make. I hold my tongue until you are finished, and I get more insight as I go along. However, none of my thoughts may be new to you, you seem to understand pretty well what is going on.

Well, mostly I am talking to myself. I should'nt do that on your thread.

Greetings to everyone, It's another beautiful day in heaven today. Lets see if we can make some of that our own.

SS

I told Pep here once a long time ago I was a child in the 60s, not of the 60s. I've been kissed by 4 different males in my life (you know what kind I mean!). The first was when I was 14 and a senior backed me up against the concrete wall and stuck his tongue down approximately to my colon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Put me off my feed for weeks, that did! (Ironically he's now a minister and I met him a couple of years ago at a Hawaiian Mission reunion, not willingly, but listening to him tell of his own journey from rebellion to faith gave me a whole new image of him to remember instead of the one that had been stuck in my craw <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> for so many years.) The second was when I was 19, and said yes to the marriage proposal from the Spreader of Nectar Amongst the Many Blossoms of the Garden. And when he kissed me, I swear the only thought that went through my mind was, "I hope MS never finds out about this." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The 3rd was when I was 21 and was from MS himself. Oddly enough, this is NOT a pleasant memory for me because the estrangement between us was painfully obvious by then, and a kiss made it worse, not better, because it felt to me so much more like anger than love. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> The 4th was Mr. HP himself, and we all know where THAT led to. And that's it--the story of my flamboyant romantic swath through those youthful years. So don't be telling ME about the 60s! I managed to live through them without ever once participating in any of the rebellions they had to offer. I didn't know it at the time, but apparently I was saving my rebelliousness for the 70s and 80s. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I thought I was in love, too, right up until the wedding started and I went, " <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />!"

t&l

Let me say this about that...

As an addendum to the whole guilt issue. I realize that sexual purity is generally not valued in today's society, even by a lot of Christians. It may surprise you to know, given what has been discussed here, and the humor I find in so many weird things, that I still believe what I was taught when I was young...my many failures notwithstanding. Life has tested my theory. Some parts have held. Some have not. That particular one is still a very strong part of my beliefs. But back then, all I had was theory. And it was a very lofty, noble, elevated one of maidenly purity and manly self-control. When I failed to live up to my own dreams, my sense of self-betrayal and loathing was every bit as intense and dark as my former goals had had once seemed bright and attainable. That was a very not-good time for me, and the aftermath of those months has sent long, deep, far-reaching shadows down over the many years of this marital relationship.

I'm not interested in getting into an argument with anybody over the legitimacy of Biblical standards of morality, and what sex should be like for the Christian. I AM willing to say that I am convinced that if you believe--truly believe--that something is right, you need to live up to it with all your heart. I also believe that nobody has the right to try and pressure another person into abandoning truly-held spiritual beliefs, either. There is a price to pay in self-respect when you fail to be faithful to your own core. And it doesn't just have to be about sex.

Remember that the next time you are lured to cut corners somewhere, or give in "just a little" and fudge something that you know is wrong. If you make this your practice, piece by piece (<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) you will chip away at who you are, until what is left is a person totally unrecognizable to you. And one you probably won't much like, either.

t&l

I guess I'd better hurry, then. If you've been holding your tongue all this time, your hand is probably getting pretty slobbery by now. Get yourself a towel, dry off, and speak up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Well, if you're talking to yourself, why I am listening to you?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The only rule on this thread is that the other thread's rules don't apply here. I'm not only an iconoclast, but an anarchist as well. Resist authority! Storm the Bastille! Oops. Wrong century... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I agree with you, which is one of the reasons I've dragged the Saga out for such public consumption. If our experiences and struggles are common to each other, then the lessons I have learned from my many "wisdomogenitive" experiences should be able also to provide a common benefit...hopefully without somebody else having to actually make the same mistakes that I did learning the lessons in the first place. When I was a kid, I could never be warned in advance. I always had to try it to see if it would REALLY work that way. Surely everybody in the world isn't that dumb! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> If anybody here can avoid a blunder by seeing it in action in the Saga, and thereby prevent themselves from suffering unnecessary <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />, or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />, or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />, or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />, or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />--hey, more power to you! Glad I could help. I'll be the designated sufferer, and all you guys avoid my footsteps like the PLAGUE!!!!!!!!

I should go to bed. It was a supremely-horrendous night at work. We had only 6 deliveries, but 3 of them were mine. We had 22 pts. come through the door during the shift, and still had 12 of them left on the board when the day shift walked through the door. It's always a bad sign when the preceeding shift leaps upon you with kisses, and little cries of ecstasy, when you arrive to relieve them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'm SO ready for bed this morning. Tonight will come entirely too soon for me!

t&l

I should go to bed. It was a supremely-horrendous night at work. We had only 6 deliveries, but 3 of them were mine. We had 22 pts. come through the door during the shift, and still had 12 of them left on the board when the day shift walked through the door.

My DIL is due this Saturday.
She, son, and grandaughter came to dinner last night, and she seemed to be doing really well, all things considered.
She is taller than most girls, I think that helps. Seems to have more room.

Surely everybody in the world isn't that dumb!

Sometimes I wonder.
I think I was that dumb - and some days.........

Sweet dreams T&L, sweet dreams.
And tell me, what would sweet dreams be for you?

SS

t&l,

Ooooops!!!!!

"I told Pep here once a long time ago I was a child in the 60s, not of the 60s."

Hmmmm....sorry about that - I think I gave you a promotion or something!

You said...

"I AM willing to say that I am convinced that if you believe--truly believe--that something is right, you need to live up to it with all your heart. I also believe that nobody has the right to try and pressure another person into abandoning truly-held spiritual beliefs, either. There is a price to pay in self-respect when you fail to be faithful to your own core. "

I'm soooo trying to teach my children this...when at their ages it is sooo about peer acceptance!

And I'm glad this thread is EXACTLY the way it is...it's non-conforming - no wonder I feel at home here!

Only problem is my husband uses the well known ancedote when he speaks of me that "I will never allow myself to be a member of a 'club' that would accept me"!

"I will never allow myself to be a member of a 'club' that would accept me"!

That ranks right up there with "It's not polite to chew with food in your mouth."

and

"If you can't say anything, don't say anything at all."

And yes, I misquoted them on purpose.

SS

What can I say? I was a dull child in a wild time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


I guess it's better to learn it later than not at all, but how much different my own life would've been if I'd learned it sooner. I hope you succeed in your attempt at early drilling this through the thick skulls of your young! No insult intended towards your personalyoung. Almost ALL young skulls are thick.


I don't actually set out to be non-conforming just for the sake of being different, but I've had to chart my own course for so many years that it's pretty much quit bothering me if I'm not in step with everybody else...as long as I'm in step with myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

t&l

It often seems to work that way, and if this is, as it sounds, her 2nd baby, it should be a piece of cake! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Sleeping all day long and not waking up till it was time to go. Just found out I'm charge nurse tonight, since the regular one called in sick. Hope I don't have to preside over chaos like last night, but I don't hope MUCH. There were only 2 beds open on the maternity unit, and 12 people in labor. When that happens we have to keep them after delivery and try to fit in more labor pts. around that. Read books, people. READ BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

t&l

I tried to get Neaksis to post for me this morning, since the last night at work has left me spectacularly short of both intelligence and wit--which wasn't all that "tall" to start out with! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I'd like to say that the dear, sensitive darling's heart was just too full for words this morning, and that's why I'm reduced to my own inanities...but unfortunately it's not her heart that's feeling full today as she's still suffering the aftereffects of her birthday (t&l whispers) "gluteny." I've done everything but feed her dynamite. Maybe that should be the next step. At this point I'm encouraging mineral oil for its, um, oily properties, but she thinks it sounds just as nasty as I do (30 years ago I tried to self-induce my labor for Neakbro by drinking castor oil, so I have EXPERIENCE!), and I haven't been able to convince her yet. Oh, cool--HP just suggested the same regimen, but with the addition of bran. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Glad it's her and not me! She just wandered off muttering, "Why don't I just make bran cakes and FRY them in mineral oil?" Anybody want to come over for brunch? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I told you all what a great cook she is. This would be your chance to find out for yourselves!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

So, note to all vegetarians, or adventurous carnivores experimenting with the ingestion of gluten: Be sure it's fully cooked. You know the old saying, "A moment on the lips; forever on the hips." Well, this stuff won't make it to your hips because from all I've been able to figure out here, it's gonna stay in your stomach as a sodden lump pretty much the rest of your life! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

t&l

P.S. After she read the previous post she said now we can't post her picture because I discussed her gastrointestinal system! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I said, "Don't be ridiculous! The people who look at it will be saying to themselves, 'How dare t&l talk that way about the sweet-looking girl in that picture? I'll bet she doesn't even HAVE intestines...'" So be sure you say that about her when we post her picture. I'd hate to have to turn in my prophet's license. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

t&l

T&L -

My kids dad had heart problems and stayed at the 7th Day Adventist hospital in St. Helena, CA. When I heard that they only had vegetarian food, I couldn't imagine actually EATING there. But you know what? The food there was some of the best I've ever had. They actually had fried shrimp that had no shrimp in it, but tasted better than what most restaurants serve.

Hi B--Made the mistake of getting up for one last thing and looked at your post on the way back to bed. The St. Helena hospital is where I had most of my clinical experience during my first year of nurse's training in '68. I don't remember that much about their food in particular, but I do know I didn't get to weigh 160+ pounds by living on carrots or celery. Or semi-raw gluten, for that matter! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

t&l