Great story!!!

thats truly a lovely story neak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like to hear happy stories these days <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good morning or evening to all, I'm hiding from AW and the shed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We had a very nice church service today with the readings made by parishoners which is common these days and does make the service more inclusive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The sermon was - well - confronting to me and I think AW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

AW seems to gain so much from it and listens intently. I surmise it provides her with great comfort and dare I say it hope. She has become quite friendly with our Arch Bishop which I plead surprise with.
They like I, have big concerns for Aussie however like a good priest he keeps reassuring us that God has many mansions and there is one for Aussie - hopefully many years away of course - and that prayer DOES work <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

there is a poem that explains so much my own Grumpy and our Aussie written not too long ago by a veteran, it does I am afraid pull on my heart strings. Its rather annoying to find I'm not as immune to the issue as I thought I was.
BUGGER <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I don't know, but there are days when I feel I may not have been as good a wife as I should have been as I learn more about grumpy's experiences over the years, But its like getting blood out of stone.
AW struggles with the same thoughts I do believe.
We seem to avoid this discussion. Its rather uncomfortable to admit your failings and yes intollerance - I'm positive I'd like to take back some irritated comments over the years - bah humbug to sermons that make me think! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I see clearly.

I see clearly
The gathered ghosts
Like old friends
The young men who shall
we know no more
the gathered ghosts before
me on the parade ground

and in their ghostly smiles
and in my guilt filled dreams
of one who lived but died inside
I find an answer
If an answer can be found
At all

You can draw your souls water
from the clear spring
whose source is not fear -
but hope,
and not revenge -
but compassion.

I see no hope
Or peace for such as I
We who have seen
And smelt the sinews
Of war
The young men who shall
we know no more
is I


Ask AW who said this - she is the history buff and can probably give it to you in the original Latin or Greek - but I can remember the quote well enough I think -

"Only the dead have seen the last of war"

It doesn't seem as if we have learned much does it. But hope springs eternal and NOTHING is impossible to God.
I might just give Grumpy a big hug for no particular reason when he gets home tomorrow.
He'll probably fall over in shock <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Well, AWMum, for somebody who SAYS she's not tryingt to make me sad, what you write seems to be filling my eyes with tears a lot lately. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I'm not in any way recommending that you go back and read The Sad Saga of OtherSusan the Stupid, but if you have you'll know why that snippet of the poem was such a direct hit for me. The two men I know who survived Viet Nam--the one I married, and the one I couldn't--each in his own way has lived out the reality of those few words...and there's a world, and a lifetime, of sadness enclosed in just two lines.

Viet Nam was a towering event for them, which has cast a very long shadow over all that happened afterwards. I think it would be very interesting to visit with you about our life experiences. From what you say, every now and again, I've come to suspect that we've lived some remarkably similar lives. You have my condolences!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Sorry to butt in but have you ever been told you have to forgive yourself first? I've learned that very recently and although I resisted preferring to wallow in my guilt, it is true that the only real way to do something honest about our mistakes is to forgive ourselves and make amends for them.

It can be done. Once we really forgive ourselves , we will be able to make up for our mistakes.

It takes courage but at least it's more honest than cowardly opting to nurse our guilt.

Make sense? I'm new to this, but it's never too late. I hope.

Yes, forgiving yourself is hard. Very hard. Related to that self-inventory that is the second or third of the 12 steps. It is easier to move on after forgiving yourself.

Aussie friends - one of the most moving places I have ever been is the War Memorial (I think to soldiers of the second World War) in Melbourne. Simply awe inspiring.

Mom broke her foot at the portable Vietnam wall memorial.

AWMum, keep up the good work. I think you are doing therapy for Mom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, Mom, I told Neaksis you wanted to talk to both of us, but she never called back once she got the kids settled, so I think she fell asleep. We're both up now, whenever you're available.

tl that poem struck me like a mallet. Those two lines were like someone opening up my life to spread it out for all to see. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think I would like to read of that susan if its ok? She would have fitted in our household quite comfortably I think.

Rella we are good at memorials, just not good at avoiding the need to have them!

Forgiveness? I’m not sure that it’s a subject I have pondered on much. I feel I did the best I could at the time with the tools and knowledge I had. Its just – was that good enough or just an excuse?

Regrets, I have a few - dont you LOVE that song - I know that I am by no means alone in this experience. There are so many and many of them have divorced. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I have no regret NOT leaving grumpy - well there are days lol- but I CHOSE to stay. Alcohol, and I suspect perhaps a woman or two, insensitivity and so on. WHY? you may ask. Some years ago my second youngest asked me that. Do I have a good answer? I'll let you know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
She also asked me why didn't I seek it elsewhere? Nosy little so & so. I was attracted to a few men during the years and one I had a severe case of the hots for but admit to chickening out. No great moral decision at least not a conscious one. I'm afraid I am no saint.

Please do not think I am unhappy by talking about this especially not today oh no I am not in any way and I will share that with you soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have seen too the two parts of this sad struggle some it through AW & Aussie and came to understand so much of the relationship in my own M. Maybe why I have such a big soft spot for Aussie and want to really help AW besides the parent thing.
TL I guess its so easy for us to get upset because I think at this stage in our lives we SEE what could and should have been.

AND I"M F****ING ANGRY/ SAD/ FRUSTRATED - but not at Grumpy I've got past that- well most times. I feel all of the above for him and with him at society a bit and Governments and life in general at times.
I guess to "rage at the night, of the dying of the light" - poetry helps <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But that said I admit to human failure and there are moments when I could just well do SOMETHING and scream at him WHY DIDN'T YOU COME HOME AS MY HUSBAND YOU ******.
but its useless. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
From a French phrase "Les sanglots longs des violons de l'automne blessent mon Coeur d'une langueur monotone" basically the translation with a poetic license is that 'he wounds my heart with a monotonous languor'

I'm not sure if I am expressing myself well here but in simple terms Vietnam or I suppose any war indescribably affects the wife/family of a serviceman. We too have gone to war and we so often are left alone with the broken stunned men to somehow stitch a worthwhile life back together.

The greatest regret I have is that there is never and will be never a way to garner back the lost years of isolation from my H who found it so so hard to show affection to even the kids, to be so stuck in the one place and one way of looking at things. It really pi**es me off at times. What a stinking waste.
But I am determined to make the best of it and hold to the joys I have and receive <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


NOW, what was that happy thing I had to tell you all about?

Oh yes lets see, it was about 4.30 this afternoon and I had left the shed project after AW was vigorously swearing and grunting and groaning about ‘freaking cement slabs and freaking steel mesh” <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Except she was NOT using the word ‘freaking’ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

When out of blue I heard this squeal – I thought oh oh she’s dropped something on her foot or broken something useful like an arm or a leg – so I make my way out and there she is assaulting a man – well she had tackled him to the wet cement floor and was very actively slobbering all over him.
Aussie has come home!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I said go get a room you two – and they did and they have <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I’m not sure WHEN they are coming up for air but I’m not washing any sheets with all that cement ok !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I surmise this is what makes it worthwhile tl, Happy children and I’m not crying its just the cement dust ---

Where are the pictures? I will teach you how to post them.

What a wonderful bit of news! Aussie's home!!!!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just need to go love on my babies right now.

There is so much I am not equipped to teach them or give them.

But I shall give them all the love I can.

Does anyone have a cure for lack of structure, organization, consistency, and other ADD ills. Meds help. Coaching helps. But, heavens, this is overwhelming sometimes.

And my church is really struggling right now. Strange things going on. This is not the first time we have weathered a bout of division and exodus. But, every time it happens, it is painful. Right now, we are having an exodus of the more conservative people. And, an exodus it is - not just a trickle. 15 years ago, our attendance was around 650 - we plummeted to 350 a couple of years ago. Today, I counted and got 186 - in less than a year, we have lost over 100 people.

The interesting thing is that the group fleeing is the group w/ children. Even caused our youth minister to resign. So, we have no children to speak of from 1st grade to 7th grade. Youth group has declined. But we are picking up young couples in their 20s. We are not located in a neighborhood where many can afford to live. The houses around us start at well over $500,000 dollars. Well over that. They are tearing down quite a few houses and old apartment buildings in the area to build new condos that start at $500,000 so we are a congregation of commuters. As people move to the suburbs, they become less willing to commute toward town to worship. Maybe we should start some outreach in the downtown areas where they are building more and more housing.

I only have a minute or two to post. First, about Aussie coming home... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> 2nd, about the cement sheets... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I hope they stayed out of the sinks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

As far as the story, it's all here towards the beginning of the thread. I couldn't stop you from reading it if I tried. I sometimes wonder now (<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) if it was really a good idea to put that whole thing on the internet for any and all to see...but this is a fine time to get squeamish, isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> It's there. It's irretrievable. And it's true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l

Oh, Aussie's home. Thank God. The war has been heavy on my heart. The soldiers that I cared for after Fallujah in 2004, are in the same company of those that are accused of killing the innocent children and families in March.

I'm tired of war.

Mark Steyn, 6-4-06


Thoughts from an ex-Marine

I've got to leave early for work so I can go by Wal-Mart and buy some more cheapie reading glasses, but just wanted to post these two links for you, Believer. There was one the other day, too, but I didn't think to include it. I wish now I had, because I think many in the media are pre-judging this incident, and the accused aren't getting a fair shake. It must be even harder for you, since you know them. I'm sorry.

t&l

So glad to hear that Aussie is back again, safe and sound. TT

The first night I worked with the casualties, I was completely shocked. Had expected to see war fighters, not young boys. Down to the last one, they all wanted to recover and go back to be with their units.

They ranged from 18 to about 22. For some, Fallujah was their second tour in Iraq. Some had been wounded before.

I'm kind of afraid that something bad DID happen. It makes me extremely sad for the soldiers, the families in Iraq, and the rest that are still fighting. Many have been pushed too far.

At work, no one talks about it. Everyone is waiting to see the outcome.

just a very late drop in for you, its nearly 1.00pm here so I am thinking its very late in the US around 1.00am ???

my two love birds are up and about finishing the shed off together. Its amazing to see my daughters face loose the lines of grief and pain and again become as that 18 to 20 something wife who adores her husband. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> the years flee her then and she is so happy.

breakfast was funny and the one word I can think of to explain it is 'joyful' with the kids all there and Mikey in his dads lap who keeps looking up at him as if to say are you here really? I think hes very puzzled but just accepts it all as babies/toddlers do.

believer and tl I do think some incident happened but not like the papers or media show it. In Afghanistan during the invasion after 911 the SAS wiped out almost an entire village with all that entails. From what little detail has become available it was not in the heat of battle but a deliberate order from on high which was questioned a number of times and I must hope and probably think is true was misinterpreted by the officer in command at the scene.
But that does not bring back the dead.

I know the men and officers were sent home immediately and went into intense treatment, So are they victims or monsters?

To send men especially those who have not experienced much of battle or death into such places and then to say as the Government that you never thought they may either break down or get things wrong is just another big lie of war.
I will NEVER blame the men, but those who sent them there.
And of the cowardice of those who sent them there and now will not accept responsibility for the product of war. Who dare to think that war is some clincial game they can play and like Pilate wash the blood from their hands.

As you see it pushes my buttons as the kids would say.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

What a beautiful family snapshot you gave us - thank you.

As long as you're still awake and online, call me at 3393 and I'll tell you something you may or may not want me to post on your thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

t&l

we were on page 2!

off to cut the grass. I do need a studly yardman - one who can teach the prince how to do these things.

Good morning to all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

AW & Aussie have spent the night at my house while I have bravely held the post at their home with the kideroos!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

ok well with Mikey and the two young legal 'adults' who still seem like kids to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Grumpy is due back tonight so back to the salt mine and washing machine. He'll have red dust in EVERYTHING, got in his swiss waterproof watch too, its a real pain. I'll end up washing his clothes about 3 times to get it out
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

AW is having the day off from work - what they call a flexi day, trading hours worked over and above the standard hours for time off ( she has about 8 days up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

tl I have begun reading - are you sure we're not the same person with split realities? lol talk about close - maybe its our generation - yikes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Can I blame my parents like everyone else ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />