Hi Karona-

Thanks for muddling through this with me. I just feel like such a yo-yo! I vascilate from feeling totally sad, to angry, to okay, to sad again, etc.

Deep down I know he is hurting too, but it does little to comfort me. Deep down I know we need this separartion, but that too doesn't comfort me. There are just so many unknowns.

I can't do the back to just friends either. I mean how do you do go on and act like nothing has changed when everything has? How do you act like you just want friendship when you want more? The idea of him even dating someone else makes me ill and he said he feels the same, yet encourages me to.

I know it sounds crazy, but I feel such a sense of loss. Almost as bad as when my Xh left me. Sometimes I think this is worse because there were no warnings, no real problems. Part of me wishes I could just get amnesia and forget the past few months!

I know this is something I must do and something that I will survive, but it really stinks none-the-less.

It is Tuesday and we should be together tonight. Instead I will be at home alone - UGH!

Thanks for listening.

Take care and God bless!
K

If it helps you any Still, I'm home alone too!
I know that's little consolation.

I know what you mean about the friend thing. You just can't go back to the simple once your heart has gotten so involved.
I hope the time apart will bring clarity for him.

When I broke it off with my guy, I thought I didn't care about him dating because that was I felt like I needed to do.
Well, upon starting to communicate with him again, I find out he had been out with someone, I didn't like it too well.
It hurt like crazy!!
So, while he's telling you to date, my guess is if you do, he will go crazy too.

Yes it is something that we both must do, and we will survive, but, it still hurts just the same. There is no getting around it!

Try to appreciate your alone time, and not dwell on him too much. I know that's easier said than done.
I know this is a repeat, but I did start writing in a notebook. All my feelings, the hurt, sad, angry.... what ever they were. It does help some. The pain is still there, but maybe it will lesson it somewhat.

Take Care!
Karona

One more thing Still,

If you are interested, I'm over on the After Divorce board discussing this type thing with a male input.

High Flight started the question, about commitment. If you would like to jump in, you are welcome!
It would be a man's perspective for you.

K

Thanks Karona-

I am so confused and hurt right now. We made it our first day with no contact and I just can't help but hope the phone will ring. I have promised myself that I won't call as I really believe he needs his space, but I long to talk to him!

I just don't get it. He is on my mind almost constantly and I can't help but wonder how he is feeling. Everyone tells me that he is most likely going through the same thing, but I don't know. If he is why won't he come back? I know he needs some down time to get clarity, but the thought of him with someone else kills me. I know he feels the same as he has told me so, but yet another part of me says he has to pursue other people in an effort to gain clarity and it makes me ill. I feel like he is telling me to date to ease his guilty conscience! Then the age thing gets to me. He is nine years younger. I am consumed with thoughts of him finding a younger woman with no baggage or family while I sit and rot alone longing for him. It kills me. I guess I don't give myself much credit.

I am keeping busy, unfortunately very easy to do! I went to the movie Cinderella Man with a friend last night. It was a bit violent with all the boxing for my tastes, but such an incredible story. Afterwards we went to her house and talked. Everyone keeps telling me the same thing, but the it doesn't take the hurt away.

On the way to and from the movies I drove by his house (I know, bad idea!) Both times he was there alone. I don't know, it's like if I see him with someone I will be able to move on? It just makes me sad. I know this is happening for a reason, but if we are both alone and miserable why can't we be together?

As for you, what do you think it is the gives you doubts about your man? What would it take for you to change your mind and open yourself up to the relationship?

Just questions I have.

Take care and God bless!
K

I have done the "drive bys" too Still.
I have also stopped by, and regretted it, because I got weird signals from him. Don't do it!

I know what you mean about the calls too. I look at my cell all the time, looking for a text.
I'm trying to be strong this time, and not call him. I have caved every time.

I do think he is hurting too. Even though he is the one who is asking for this, he is hurting, I'm sure.

You and my guy sound the same. He also believes that it's crazy to both be miserable when we could be together. My thinking is, I have to get myself in order to be able to be solid. Without that, we can't be.

I'm trying to answer your question of what would it take to open up?
First I need the time. I need to see where time takes me being away from him. I need to get totally comfortable being alone. I'm starting to feel better about it. I'm starting to feel that if something should happen, I can let myself go. Whether that be with him, or someone else.
I wonder if it has something to do with the x getting married? I'm not sure.
Something that won't change is the height thing. That is a clincher for me. While the other part of me thinks that he provides so much security, should I put so much into that??
Something else that comes into play that I have never brought up but does creep into my mind is interaction with others. I worry about him fitting into my life and in the social aspect. Don't get me wrong, I'm no socialite, but I think about the times when I am around friends and thier spouses, how would it be.
He has a great sense of humor, but there are times when he becomes quiet. We didn't go out much around the area where I'm from because I always felt guilt. I was ashamed to be seen with someone other than my spouse. I don't want to come across as "the divorcee". He took it as I was ashamed of him, and that was not the case, it was within myself.

I'm feeling a little lighter lately about it all.
I still don't like to go there in thought of him with someone else. He has much more opportunity to date than me.

As far as the age thing, really, don't worry about it.
I think that for one you should be proud of it, and I willing to bet your a young looking/acting 30+ mom/woman!
Sure, he may date someone younger than you, but something I have been telling myself lately is, they have to fill our shoes! Right? I mean, I know if I meet someone, and go out, they have some big shoes to fill. Knowing that these guys care for us so much, they have to put women through the paces too!

If the two of you get back together, this is going to make your relationship stronger. I still don't believe it's over. By the sounds of things, there are too many feelings on both sides.
He needs validation on something. He working through it, I'm sure.

Oh, on a side note. I did something that's driving me crazy.
I bought a candle for my friend on her birthday. I liked the smell, so I picked up one for myself 2 days ago.
I kept picking it up and smelling it. All the sudden it hit me, it smells like HIM! Now I'm driving myself crazy!! These little things happen and I wonder if there signs.
The other day, I was doing a crossword puzzle. One question was about a town in a state, which is where he is from. Another question was about an actor, of course, one of his favorites. I had to run to the mall at lunch. I told the guy I work with, I bet I see him as these weird things have come up, sure enough, I walk through the parking lot, and he drives by. I never spoke to him, but that was the last day we texted each other. For some reason, these reminders are being placed there.

Stay in touch Still.

K

Karona you have me laughing right now! Isn't it weird how the little things remind you of these guys?

I can't seem to stop the drive bys, but I will not stop. This is his break and he knows where I stand. In the two weeks since this all blew up he was always the one to initiate contact, granted I am not good at not answering the phone or texting back, but I will not initiate it.

I do think he is hurting and from the looks of it spending a lot of time on his own. I really think that is a good thing. Yes, one part of me says this is senseless why should we be miserable, but there is the other part that sees it as a time of emotional growth for both of us. As I said earlier I have been re-reading Mars and Venus Starting Over. The funny thing is that when I bought it the first time I was ready to go on my first post divorce date so I wanted to be "prepared" anyhow, I skipped the part of the book on healing as I was healed - WRONG! As I read it now I am pulling up a lot of suppressed feelings and emotions. It has been an interesting couple of days as I face up to some stuff. I have come to realize I have a lot of unsettled fears and emotions about being rejected. My first love left me in college to find himself and never came back, my XH left me to find himself and it ended up he was having an affair. Now the new guy needs to find himself, and even though the rational part of me knows he does and for good reason, the old feelings of rejection are popping back!

I honestly know that we need this time apart, but we had so many good things and so much in common that I am really hoping at this point that we will be able to come back together when we are both healed. Am I crazy or what? I am also opening myself to the fact that while although right now he is who I want, that may change in this process too!

I got signed up for two exercise classes. I need to get in shape and he was my walking partner. I am taking a boot camp and a striptease aerobics class with friends. I will probably kill myself, but we'll see. In the very least it will help shape me up!

As I read your concerns about your guy I could see where you are coming from, sure they may seem a bit superficial, but you can't help how you feel and you shouldn't ignore it either. I really can't relate to either of your issues there, my guy is 6'2" and a teacher so we have easily fit into each others social circles, just another thing that bums me out!

I talked to a friend today whom has been out of town for a week. She was shocked we were still apart, she said we just seemed so into each other and right for each other! Bummer! Well, if we really were I guess that we bring us back to each other right?

I liked your insight on the age. I like myself so much better at 37 than 27! You are right too about tough shoes to fill. I know if I was to date someone I would be totally comparing them to him, so why wouldn't he? Thanks for cheering me up!

Well, I better run. I'll talk to you tomorrow!

Take care and God bless!
K

WOW, now that is some class your taking.
Funny thing you mention it though. I have been thinking that I would love to take dance lessons.

I always enjoy watching people that know how to dance. I think it would be fun. I wonder if they would provide a partner??

Let me know how the classes go. I'm interested in this one!

I also walk. Alone, or with my daughter. I joined the gym months back. Seem to only make it 2X per week, and thats when I'm lucky. I had been in an aerobics class, but they ended and I didn't sign back up.

I'm glad to get a smile from you! I wasn't really trying, so that was good! I know this is a hard time. I don't want to make light of anything you are going through.

While I wrote this morning that I was feeling lighter/better, this evening is different. I'm feeling lost again. And that dumb candle! Everytime I walk in the door there it is. I think of him immediately.
But, it is funny though too!

Wow, 6'2". I would absolutely love that!!I have only ever went out with one tall guy in my whole life, and I was 15 then. Every other guy has bee real close to my height. Wonder what that's all about??

So, maybe I need to dig my book out again. I have had the same things happen to me too. Every guy I ever dated left me for someone else. I know we can't be that bad. At least our kids love us!

Speaking of, my oldest just left today for a church choir trip. She will be gone 5 days! This is her first solo trip! She was excited. I hope she stays that way all 5 days!

Drive bys are basically harmless in my opinion. Just be careful not to get caught!!

Take care Still,
K

Well last night proved to be another ride on the roller coaster! It was shorter and less intense, but still a ride.

He called at 11:15. Yes, I should have just let it ring, but I didn't. He asked how I was doing and I said I was fine. I asked how he was and he said absolutely great. Anyhow I asked why he was calling and he said he had been up to the town where my XBF has his cabin. He said he had gone to a party up there with friends and thought he should call me to say he'd been there. I told him that made absolutely no sense to me. He then went into his talk on how I am his best friend and how we should be able to stay friends. I told him maybe in time, but not for now. That for now I need to focus on me, what I am going through, and what I want. I suggested he do the same and he replied that he is fine, that he was confused last week, but now is fine and ready to see what and who is out there for him - Whatever! I told him I would call him if and when I was ready for friendship only and reminded him that I had been telling him that for a week. To this he replied, "I waited two days, how long will I have to wait?" Why can't he get this? Is he so self absorbed right now that he can't see anyone else?

I don't know, I saw a different side to him yesterday. He was shallow and superficial. Really flippant towards everything. We talked about a lot, but I did not try to reason with him. I simply told him that for now I needed no contact. He told me he wished I could see his point, that he had married into an imperfect relationship before and that it had failed because of it. He said he isn't going to do that again and he has to go out and see if the perfect relationship was out there. I wished him luck, but told him to leave me out of it. He also brought up his XW a couple of times and was really angry at her. He is a mess, whether he chooses to ignore it or not!

I ended up having to abruptly say goodbye and hang up on him. He immediately texted me back saying that I knew how he hated that and he wished me luck.

It was weird, when I got off the phone, I felt an eery sense of relief. I honestly don't know where the man I loved is anymore. I know he is dealing with a lot and seemingly crashing, and now he is beginning to suppress his feelings on top of everything. I feel for him, but realize that this is not my battle, that he must fight it on his own win or lose.

His parents are up for the next couple of days so I am sure he will have plenty to preoccupy him anyways!

Things will get better!

I take my first boot camp class tomorrow and will let you know how it goes if I don't die! The strip class will be interesting. I too would love to be able to be less inhibited when it comes to dancing in general!

Better run!

Take care and God bless!
K

Well Still, should we label this as "drink-n-dial"?
What the heck was that all about?? That's ridiculous, to call you up, see how you are, and then say he is great! That's crap! Nothing like rubbing in a little salt there.
Sorry, but he fired me up!

Your such a strong person, I give you credit. I would have answered the phone too! Sorry the converstation went like it did though.
He sounds kind of like a loose cannon at this point.
I feel for you.

I pulled out my book too! Have started reading it again. I'm glad you mentioned it!!
Maybe we will both gain some clarity along the way.

I have not heard a peep from my guy. At this time, it is for the best though. I wonder what it will be like one day when we do bump into each other??? Time will tell.

You have got to keep me posted on the classes. We have talked before, and my dancing skills are not the best. I'm not relaxed at it at all. I mentioned to my aerobics instructor the class your taking. I told her she should think about having it. Of course, only in a closed off room!!
Talk about people watching, it would be like a train wreck.

I'm traveling again this weekend, so I may have to catch up with you Sunday. I leave this afternoon. I'm going to try to squeeze some fun into it, but mainly it's a family matter trip. My sister lives near Wineries, so we will visit 1 or 2 of those.

Have a great weekend. Keep on a brave smile Still.

K.

Thanks for the support Karona. I have wondered if it was a drink and dial, but he sounded fine. I just wish I could figure out why he needs to keep in touch. Why can't he just leave me alone? I have told him repeatedly that if and when I am ready to be friends I will call him. Why can't he respect that?

Enjoy your weekend!

Take care and God bless!
K

I think he is just plain confused Still.
I think he cares for you so much, but has this other thing going on inside, and he just doesn't know what direction to go.

I think he wants you, and I think he wants to feel free.
But, it can't be that way. It's too hard emotionally.

Gosh, have you read Landica's post? It's a heart breaker.

I will try to check in over the weekend at my sisters, that is if my mom gives me a chance. She LOVES the computer!!
Too funny for a 66 year old to be so into technology!!

Take care Still.

K

Hello ladies, have a great weekend. I like to check in on you here.

Thanks ladies-

I was out at school finishing packing up my room. When I went to my car to leave I noticed that he had called my cell and left a message. Seems he wants me to go to dinner and then play volleyball tonight. He started the message with, "Hey Babe, then there was a slight pause before the rest. I called him back and reminded him it was my daughters' dance recital tonight. He immediately asked if I would have come otherwise and I said maybe.

He then told me how his parents were up helping with a small remodeling project and he couldn't wait until I saw it - What is with this? He is the king of mixed messages. I understand he cares for me and is confused, but does he have any clue what he is doing to me? Anyhow, I kept it upbeat and got off the phone quickly. I guess I better buckle up, this ride's not over!

Suggestions?

Take care and God bless!
K

Good to see that you stopped by Newly. Fill us in when you can on the goings on.

So Still, how was the rest of the weekend? Did he call more? Did you see him??
I don't know what to think.

I don't know what to make of his wishywashy stuff.

I think that your heart is going to continue to get broken though. He needs to get stuff figured out for himself, but he is going to have to make the break probably to do it.

I think he is afraid to let you go, but yet he has this need to be sure of himself.

I'm sure you cannot ignore his calls, I know I couldn't.

I continue to think of you.

Your Friend,
K.

Still,

Well, just to let you know. I still go crazy with this whole situation too.

I just heard tonight that my man has been talking quite a bit with someone.

It's driving me nuts!!!

So what does that mean? Just pure jealousy? Or does it tell me that there really is something there?
I'm still not going to contact him, and see where things go. I have to do that for myself because I have caved every other time.

I had to share this one with you. I can't fall asleep tonight for thinking about it.

Talk to you soon.
K.

Hi K-

I actually had a pretty good weekend, in spite of everything. He made it through the weekend without calling me, but just like clockwork called yesterday.

Let's just say it wasn't a pleasant phone call. I don't know what he really said or didn't say, but let's just say the emotions of the roller coaster caught up to me and I let him know exactly how hurt, angry, and confused I was. I ended up hanging up on him (yes I know, really mature!), then calling back only to be hung up on, and then calling back and having a civil, but disgruntled phone call. I had to go so I told him I would call later.

I did call him later and we had a very long talk. I think it went well and it gave me closure. In it he told me he has deep feelings for me, but something has changed, something that has him wanting his freedom and the ability to see what or shall we say who else is out there. Had I not been talking to you and knowing your mixed feelings about your guy I would have flipped over this. He told me he has started talking to someone else and that although he isn't sure where it is heading he has to try it. YIKES!!!! I guess he will be the king of rebounds.

He told me at the end of the conversation that he really thinks he knows how this will all play out. He says he has the need to date for a while, but is haunted by the fact that he thinks that after dating one or more people he will realize that it is me that he wants only to have me with someone else by then. Why does he say this? Is it to make me feel better? It only makes it worse! Anyhow, I told him that if he came to that conclusion I hoped he would let me know no matter what so that I at least know. To this he replied, "I will, I am selfish and if I want you back I don't care where you're at or what things look like, I want to be happy and if that means getting you back I will try anything, I have little pride." I don't know, that comment has been haunting me all night and into today.

I said I needed to go and he didn't want me to. He asked what it meant for us and I said for now I didn't know. I had already asked him to please this time respect my wish for a clean break and he said he would so at the end he tried getting me to say that he could call or me giving him a time I would call. I wouldn't.

I don't know, on one hand it is more open ended than ever, but on the other I gained closure. I now know that there is nothing I can do. In his mind he has something to find or prove and he won't be settled until he does, even if it means losing me.

Anyhow, I re-read a couple chapters of "He's Not that Into You." I read the chapters on him breaking up with you and on dating married or otherwise emotionally unavailable men because they fit my predicament. The book is hillarious, but it has some very valid points the main one being I need to move on, no contact of any kind, and work on me. If he really wants me he will get his issues worked out, if not, he is not worth me wasting my time.

So for now it is all about me. I am not calling him or taking his calls. I am moving forward and not looking back. If it is meant to be it will be, but for now it is not.

So how did your weekend go? How do you know your man is talking to someone else? I think you have answered your own question already, you are feeling jealous, if you were ready for a relationship with him right now you would call, but you are not. That doesn't however mean that you won't have these feelings of jealousy. Aren't they horrible?

Take the time for you and thanks so much for being here as I crash and burn through all of this!

Talk later,
Take care and God bless!
K

WOW Still, what a day!

I bet he doesn't find what he thinks he is looking for.
I know I haven't, and I had the very need.

I have never spoken to anyone else yet though, or have had any luck at the whole dating thingy.

I think he knows what he wants, but is afraid to jump back into a forever thing. Face it Still, now that we married people are divorced, we know what it's all about. I know for me, I want to be so sure of my next spouse. I never want to be single again if I ever marry again, NEVER!!!!

I keep telling myself the same thing. That if I take this time, and work ON ME that if we come back together, then it will work.
BUT, let me tell you, I'm really struggling these days.
I cried today about him. My heart hurts so bad. I don't think it's totally because of what I have heard. Which by the way came to me through my OD. She was on a church trip this past week. One of the chaperones works where XXXXX does. SO, my dear child says, do you know XXXXX? And the woman says, YES, he sits real close to me. He's a very nice guy........D says, my mom used to date him.......I miss him, (and don't know how it came up)my guess D said something to the effect and the response was....I see him talking to someone quite a bit, but I don't know if there is anything there or not.
Last time we stopped dating, she saw him and came right out and asked him if he was dating, which he kind of was.

I keep telling myself, that he really cares for me, and he can't get over me that fast, but I doubt it all the time.

I have wanted to text him so bad, but I'm really trying to be strong.
I want him to contact me, or bump into each other would be great.
I feel that if I contac him, I need to know what it is I want. And I'm still afraid of the whole thing.
Part of me wants it all, the other part says, you need to experience new people to know 100%. Sounds eerie familiar doesn't it???!
I for some dumb reason need to validate him to myself.
And, I still have this HUGE thing. I always wonder if our height wasn't a factor, if I would struggle with so much.

But, my question to myself these days is. Will I ever find someone that meets my needs as well as he did???? He was right on with them. Very in tune, and paid attention to details. That was huge for me.

I'm reading the book, and it is helpful. (Starting Over) Funny, I did read it a long time ago, but I must have been in a funk because I don't remember it very well.
This time though, I'm a highlighting fool!!

So, it's a toss up tonight! Do I read the book or the new Cosmo??? Guess I should stick with the book and save the good tips till I get myself all straightened out!! Whenever that may be.

If its any consolation, your not crashing alone. I'm right there with you!

Take Care,
K

Hello ladies. It is good to have each other isn't it.

I thought I was the only one who went after emotionally unavailable men! I'm still with guy, although red flags continue to show. For now, he treats me well most of the time. I can tell when I get on his nerves and don't do what he wants. How about this for a quote "I'm a Marine, when I give an order, I expect it to be followed!"
I laughed it off, and he said he didn't mean it, but I could tell by the look on his face he did. And it was about nothing important.

Dating should be easier than this.

Hi ladies it is great to have you. You offer me support and insight I can't find anywhere else and it is a lifeline!

I still haven't heard from the guy since our final call on Monday night. I hope he continues to honor my request for no contact as I need to heal and move on. If we are meant to be in the long run, we will be, but until then I need to let go and get on with life.

He really gets to me though. The fact that he is already calling someone new is upsetting, what ever happened to healing time? Then he is so casual about the dating thing. He said the other night that although he isn't actively pursuing anything that there are a lot of potential people out there and when he does start he should have no problem. This is where the evil me sneaks in and hopes he falls flat on his face, I mean why should he have it so easy? Am I that easily forgettable? Of course he followed all his flippant dating comments with the fact that he really thinks he knows how this will all play out. He says he has the need to date for a while, but is haunted by the fact that he thinks that after dating one or more people he will realize that it is me that he wants only to have me with someone else by then. So I don't know.

I understand that he has to do this, but it really hurts me and I don't like it. I guess this is where my insecurities come to play. He is 28, newly divorced, with no kids, I am a 37 year old divorced mother of 4, will I really find anyone?

Another thing that worries me is that although he is still so vulnerable he wants to rush everything. He is looking for the perfect relationship to come and heal his pain, which will lead to marriage so he can get the family his first wife denied him. At this point I either see him dating many people unsuccessfully or remarrying way to quickly in an effort to heal, rather than taking the time to do it.

Karona-

The book is full of good information that I missed the first time as well. Funny though I have the new Cosmo as well and it is much more fun reading!

newly-

Have fun, but pay attention to the red flags! Funny, but I don't see you as someone who "follows orders" unless you want too!

I am the queen of seeking out the emotionally unavailable men! God help me!

Gotta run!

Take care and God bless!
K

Oh Girls, I also am so thankful for you!!!
If I never found this place, I'm pretty sure I would be off the deep end!!
Seriously, you all have provided so much support and have helped me heal. Some would have paid big bucks for this. I have come a long way, but I have further to go.

While I hate if for you too, it is good to know I have company in this whole relationship thing.

Newly, I agree with Still. From the you I've come to know here, I don't see you taking it either. I see you as very strong and independent. I think you could handle him none the less. We have to pay attention to those flags. They are so important. I trust that you are in control, and don't need my advice on that.

Still, Goodness sakes, I know that must be so hurtful to hear. And I hate it double, because I have been the one to say some of those very things.
However, I never knew of anyone else to go out with, I just had the need to validate.

If it makes you feel any better at all, I am having second thoughts about the whole thing lately.
I hope it's not ALL jealousy as far as the news I heard about him.
I'm really starting to think I'm coming around and seem more emotionally ready for a relationship.

I think I better give it more time away before diving in though, but that is my feeling this week.
I'm sure the news does play a role to an extent. The thought of someone else having this great guy bothers me greatly. But even more, I swear, I feel like by my x getting married, it has given me a more free feeling.

I will keep you posted.

I have to go for now, but I will be in touch soon.

K.