Should I give her what she wants in the D or make it hard for her to get what she wants. IF it is uncontested then it could be final in 20 days but if it is contested it could be as far as august.

Make it hard for her! Have your lawyer contest everything! Every single point! Fight her on all her property and and financial demands...BUT let the lawyer do it! You stay dark! You disappear! Give her nothing! Make it and effort for her. There is no profit to either of you in making this easy for her...either financially or emotionally.

Look G-Boy my pointis simple. Everything in life comes with a price attached. A good mariage "costs" hard work! Likeswise a divorce has to cost as well...it can't be easy...it shouldn't be easy...it has to come at a high price so if this is what she wants, then let her pay the price...She won't like it but why worry? There's not much of anything that she likes right now anyway so....

Meanwhile you stay Dark and get your @ss into therapy! The longer you stay away from her the better your perspective will become.

Coach

I really think that what happened to us on tuesday afternoon was a wake up call to her that I was not gonna just take it anymore. No it was wrong but she is use to a man like her father to sit on his rear and take everything like he always done from her mother.

Coach and Martin before Tuesday she seemed really happy about getting the D. I asked her was she happy to be throwing the marriage and the relationship away and she said the relationship was already thrown away. I know I try to disect everything she says because I am so analytical.

Why do you think she says that?

Because WSs rewrite history to accommodate what they've done. It's easier to think the marriage was "already over" rather than think they are selfish, destructive, disloyal people who put themselves first. So they reconstruct the past to accommodate what they've done. That way they can be "right" and you are "wrong."

Gaboy, you really need some counseling about these issues when you say "she is use to a man like her father to sit on his rear and take everything like he always done from her mother." I get the feeling that there are a lot of issues that need to be worked out under the surface. In particular, you say your anger has been an issue for her. Well, if you want to convince her you are "different," that would be a place to begin.

Moreover, it would be a good step for YOU, whatever happens to your marriage.

P.S. I take it you didn't get served today?

No my lawyer is gonna accept service, what do I say when she says that she just wants to be friends and if anything happens it will happen. She doesnt want to date anyone after the divorce and she doesnt want me to date anyone after it either.

This is silly, of course. If she divorces you, you are free to do what you like. And what she does after divorce will be immaterial to you. That's what divorce is all about.

WSs think in strange ways. They want to make post-divorce rules.

WS' are soooo fickle. 1st they want a D, then they don't, then they want to dictate how you do the D, when you do, they grumble, then they want to tell you how to live your life as if they are still in an R with you that allows them to control your lfe after they have told you that you are too controling, etc, etc, etc. Boy if that isn't a run on sentence.... LOL!! Yet the life of a WS is just like that......running on and on and on with no real direction or purpose.

So what's a BS t/d? Move forward. Have a plan, purpose, goal and direction. If the WS turns around, becomes a real spouse, asks for your forgiveness and is willing to work and do the recovery work necessary AND if the BS still wants the Xws back..... then and only then is there a chance.

'Til then, stay away from the WS and her babble.

L.

Coach and Martin says not to give her what she wants and go dark. Should I let her have the divorce and then see what happens or make it hard on her to get the D. I feel like she will build up anger towards me and we will never have a chance even after the D

I never said "not to give her what she wants." But if you don't want a divorce, I don't think you should fully cooperate and dance to her tune. Without actually be obstreperous, do what you can to slow things down. See what your lawyer says.

Everyone on this one is acting angrily, hastily, impulsively. Bad way to make important decisions.

G-Boy,
Your imagination will be your ruin. Why is she doing this, that or anything else? Who can tell at this moment! She is a fogged out WW who is searching but doesn’t know what for! What does this tell you about her current state of mind?

Why would you try to understand her…or anything she says or may do…at this particular time? If she is going to divorce you, then that’s what she will do. You have no control over of what she will do…but then you have no responsibility for what she will do either! This may sound like an unimportant point right now, but it will become huge one day soon. (During the coming divorce battle). So will you please get it through your head and begin functioning with the understanding that the only control you have is over YOU!

And I reiterate…do not make this divorce easy! Make her work for every inch you give her! If it’s about money then make her fight for every dollar! If it’s about emotional separation then give it to her! Do not speak with her for any reason, any time soon. If she wants a divorce then she has to understand what the word really means!

Divorce is a mean spirited and vindictive process…especially when applied to a situation such as yours. Your WW is a cheat and lire! She wants to run away rather then face up to you and her marriage…so she equivocates…”after the divorce we can be friends….”

NO, NO, NO! A thousand times NO! You cannot allow her to have this illusion! She needs to face the same reality that you’ve been forced to acknowledge. And so you give her what she asks for…a divorce and all that comes long with it! Pain, suffering and loss of wealth…and you do this not to be mean…you do this to be kind! You do this to hasten the time when your WW must come out of the fog if for no other reason then to survive! So you go dark and let your lawyer do what lawyers do! The dirty work.

Make yourself scarce and wait! Do not take her calls! Do not! Do not call her for any reason! Do not! Go dark and stay dark! This isn’t the end of anything! This is just the beginning of a long protracted battle…one you can win if you can just take control of yourself. If you can just make yourself into the final place she eventually comes for “answers,” then you can win through this thing…but until then, go dark and let your lawyer make the Divorce process and hard and painful as he can.
Coach

Our house sold today after only two couples looking at it, that is scary. I had to talk to her today and we both have to sign the paper work on tuesday. I told her that I did not want to be there when she was there and that upset her a little I think. She still talked to me about being friends and mentioned coming to the house on tuesday night to talk about anything but our relationship. What should I do? She wants to talk some every week but then I have been advised to go dark, so what do I do?

You should go dark. Try to handle absolutely necessary business by email, not by phone.

Tell her that there is no "relationship," since she is filing for divorce, and that you are forced to accept her unilateral decision to end the relationship you had. You say it nicely. You say you are hurt very deeply by what she has done, and you don't see her as "friendship" material in the future. Said nicely, again.

Right now, I suspect this has more to do with her feeling better about herself than any feelings she has for you. It's all about her. Still.

You don't want to play. You make that clear -- firmly, but nicely.

G-Boy,
Are you brain dead? You just won't learn will you! You just insist on doing the D thing;(no,not the divorce thing, the Dumb thing!)

So talk to her to your hearts content. Meet with her whenshe demands it. Listen to her foggy little babble about being pals. Hey maybe she and you can talk about all the new men in her life! Go ahead! Show her your approval for all that she's done and is still going to do! Make yourself crazy! You just won't learn so why bother.

Coach

Hey and don't worry! I'm sure if you keep posting around here long enough you'll find some one that will affirm your errors and encourage you to walk yourself down the garden path to know where.

I didnt say that I was going to see her, I just wondered what I should do. Why would she want to see me? OK I will go dark but we both have to be there to sign the papers with the realtor.

Coach want going dark make her more angrier at me than she already is. I know I just dont seem to get it. It just seems that there is no changing her mind for the D.

G-Boy,
Finally you said something that makes sense, about you not being able to cause her to change her mind! "There is no changing her mind..." YOU can't change her mind about anything! She has to get "it" for herself, just like you have to get "it" for your self.

What you refuse to understand is that "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a change to take place" (this is a para-phrase of Einstien's definition of insanity, by the way and Eisnstien was generaly understood to be a pretty smart fella..right?) is insane!

My G-D you just backed off her for a day and she's on the phone to you alrady trying to suck you back in! Now she wants to meet and talk about "it." She wants to dump you ...but still wants to have you around in case she may need you...in case she can't do better maybe?

What else is her purpose do you think? Does she want to hear anything YOU have to say? NO! Because she aready knows what you have to say! So what is this meeting stuff all about?

Well may be she realizes that she over re-acted at your last face to face and wants to re-assure herself that when she wants you at her beck and call, you'll still be jumping through hoops for her just like always...do you think?

If you would just do something to change up on her...something! This by the way is part of the Divorce Buster's 180 plan...doing to opposite of what's expected and thus keeping the WS off balance! Then maybe she would begin to wonder about the wisdom of leaving the one she's leaving behind...maybe!

But to do any of the things that will get you your chance to win her back, you have to convince her that she doesn't have you all figured out! You need to cause her to think about you rather then just herself...and being her little lap dog isn't the way to do it!

So I advise you to go dark because that is the only way that you can handle this kind of sitch! Why? Cause your WW is a player and you aren't a player! She is smarter and harder then you so you have to win her by winning YOUR way! You can't win her her way cause you can't compete with who she is...not now anyway.

G-Boy, wise up for a lousy couple of weeks! Let your lawyers sign papers for the house and you stay the hell away! She'll be on the phone to you in seconds...and won't stop calling! Wait! And you?...All you have to do is NOT pick up the phone!

As for the divorce...I already told you...if she goes forward have your lawyer hunker down and beat her brains in on every point! Then she will be thinking about you 24/7...looking for ways to get you off the dime...

In this simple way you will make your point to her more clearly then all the yelling, screaming, crying and begging you could do in a life time! And you'll emerge from this mess with her having a new respect for you as well!

Think about that. She will have to deal with a new you...not some dummy she thinks she has rapped around her little finger.

This is called playing hard ball! Bring in her in on a short leashe by controlling the situation...not by trying to control her. This is how the smart guys play it...no begging and pleading!

Yeash...Now can you understand or are you going to persist in doing the dumb stuff that got you where you are?

Coach

Who cares? This is her problem now. Let her deal with her own anger. Don't YOU be angry.

Of course Coach is right. Do a 180 on her. For you, that would mean NO losing your temper, no screaming, yelling, or arguing. Another 180 is going dark -- NOT being there when she phones, not talking to her. And REALLY make it a 180, not just an act -- go out and do something. Take up belly dancing, sky-diving, learning about Turkish literature. Don't pretend to be having a big life without her -- have a big life without her!

Be very calm, very cool, very in control -- but only if your lawyer tells you you have to face her. Remember that line from Chinatown that Faye Dunaway says, very coolly to Jack Nicholson?

"Oh, I never get nasty, Mr. Geddes. My lawyer does."

Know that anger is part of what makes up a WS. They can't live without anger, drama, chaos and lies. But you can. Keep contact to the absolute minimum. Know she will call you names and do stupid things. Look at them and laugh. U must be ok with yourself to handle this. Plan B is hard but it sets the standard of how you will respond to respect. If she doesn't show it, you don't respond.

The more you communicate with her, the more she will give you her anger, drama and chaos. Do you want to play that sick game? As a WS, she just can't help but do all that drama. But you are the sane one here. Don't lose your cool.

L.

Why do you think she is wanting the D and what is her cop out for wanting to be friends?