2long, you gave me some things to think about. In fact your posts always draw out the heavy hitters and I think I will ponder some of the advice here and decide what I will and won't accept. I had never realized she only respected me as a father and not a husband. You are right and she is not a hypocrite; she will only verbalize that I am a good father. I've had to surmise the husband part and very likely I'm deluding myself.

I also thought Coach's post was elegant. The last line speaks volumes about the longterm effects that none of us can ever know. Take good care and congrats on leaving the CA club.

WOE

Here's some total heaviosity lyrics 2 ponder:

"In Power We Entrust The Love Advocated", -Dead Can Dance

"Sail on silver wings
Through this storm
What fortune love may bring
Back to my arms again
The love of a former golden age.

I am disabled by fears concerning which course to take.
For, now that wheels are turning,
I find my faith deserting me...

This night is filled with cries of
Dispossesed children in search of Paradise.
A sign of unresolve that,
Envisioned, drives the pinwheel on-and-on.

I am disabled by fears concerning which course to take.
When memory bears witness to
The innocence, consumed in dying rage!

The way lies through our love;
There can be no other means to the end,
Or keys to my heart...
You will never find.

You will never find!"

-ol' 2long

2long:
I ought to try to say something helpful, but I'm in a Friday afternoon mood.

I'm writing a movie script about a Russian, that plays the violyn while sitting on a dog.

I think we're going to call it :

"Fiddler on the WOOF. "

Hope you are well, and able to concentrate.

SS

ROTHFLMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SS:

Years ago, before d-day, I thought 2 make a modern-day, inner city version of the affair-movie "The English Patient", starring Snoop Dog or some other rapper, called...


..."The Ebonics Patient" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

-ol' 2long

Powerful lyrics 2long.

I think I wrote them last night. Sure could have anyway, in the depressing frame of mind I am in.

I hope your spirits are in a decent place, didn't read any of the new posts on the thread. Just the lyrics. And they are enough I think.

Take care guy.

I am glad I didn't miss this one. Too cute!

Hey SS, I read your posts about the twins turning 12 and getting new tents. When I was there age that would have been the best gift ever. I loved camping with my family!

One of the things I hate about being a single mom is we are limited in what we can do. I am not comfortable taking her anywhere where there might be danger. I'm probably screwing her up for life or something.

I'm probably screwing her up for life or something.

It's a good thing they love us anyway, isn't it.

We live in the wild, wild SOUTH west. No bears, lots of wide open spaces, and few people. Last summer the twins did 17 miles in three days (at 11 ys old) This summer I think we are going to Yellowstone.

Anyway, we camp a lot.

In most of the lower 48, I fear danger among people more than in the wild places.

At least you have the island.

SS

PS, thanks, I thought that one up myself for the twins. They say I have the worst jokes.

SS:

You've got mail!

So let me get this straight. Everyone and his dog thinks I am CA'ing.

I thought I was meeting ENs and supporting her through withdrawal.

(Is this something I can walk away from?)

Ap:

The 2uestion is, is she really in withdrawl? Or did she just re-entrench, like my W obviously did, thus appearing comfy?

-ol' 2long

Aphelion,

I'm not "everyone", and I can't speak for everyone's dog.

Heck, I don't know what you should do. I dont' even know what I should do. But I surveil (if that's a word) - and I think you should too.

I use the cancer metaphor.

An affair is like a cancer of the family. You need to scan it, x-ray it, take some biopsy's (can't spell worth a flip) and find out what kind you've got - so you can try to treat it. Ignoring it just leads to death. Call it investigation, surveilance (sp?) or just plain snooping - the bottom line is it gives you the info you need to know how to respond to the situation. Once you know it's terminal, you can stop looking, but if there is to be a recovery, you need to periodically (at least) probe, scan, whatever to be sure that things are still OK.

-AD

here's what jumps out of your post that smacks me...Aphelion

For example, when W snaps out of her constant low level of anger and is really nice for a change, does that mean she has had a fix? Life is a constant waiting for yet another shoe to drop.

what does contact matter when your real reality...is that she treats you with a constant low level anger...

how does that treatment become acceptable to you...

how do YOU explain that....
THAT is your reality

and what is your plan..continued exposure to that?

ARK

ark's right, Ap.

I've been thinking about it 2day a lot. My W comes home this evening and we're supposed 2 go out. She called me yes2rday evening 2 say hi. Called again before leaving for home this afternoon. No mention of meeting my "demand" for NC.

I don't even care if she changes her mind about going out (Maybe I'll go alone - 2 a lecture by a friend of mine).

I expect she'll not want 2 talk about the NC issue. It really is no more than the straw that broke the camel's back, though. The verification.

Now I know why MY w is like you describe. She made this "arrangement" in her mind that RM's GF could show me (not directly, of course... ...I think!) that RM and my W aren't going 2 be romantic anymore so they can be friends, all without talking 2 me about any of it. But that made her "happy" with herself, and so she was nicer 2 me. Still the undertone of anger, though.

It's THAT kind of crap that I'm done with. I won't have this secrecy anymore. I don't love what she's 2rned herself in2.

Before the latest d-day last week, this lifestyle was borderline acceptable 2 me. But that was it. And 2 make it anything but a continuing lie, she's got a lot of verification 2 do. I get 2 spy whenever the hell I want without her anger 2 try 2 make me feel bad about it, or I quit. NOW.

-ol' 2long

Aphelion said these things I wish to address:

1. They were so good at concealment how would we know even now?

2. Life is a constant waiting for yet another shoe to drop.

3. I find it so distasteful I cannot do it. {spying} I am not W’s warden. I am her H.

4. She already knows I will not be part of a triangle and I will let her go if she is in any kind of contact.

5. But I will let her go with love.

1. You know by looking and surveilence. "Spying" as it were. Just the way I know if my teenager is doing something dangerous on the internet ... I "spy" on her activities.

2. How will you know the other shoe has dropped if you don't look? Are you stating you prefer to learn of continued contact between them to come to you as a complete surprise? Or, are you stating that if you don't look, you won't find it, therefore continued contact does not exist?

3. Distasteful or not, it may be your only method to protect yourself because, in your own words, she has become "so good at concealment". So, are you stating that your distaste for spying is greater than your distaste of continued contact between your wife and her affair partner? Which is the greater of 2 evils?

4. If you claim that she knows you will let her go if there is any sort of contact, and if she also knows you will not spy on her in order to look for that well-concealed contact ... is this not in reality a "pass" for her to enjoy her covert life?

5. You will let her go "with love" .... Can you tell me exactly what you mean here? I find this confusing. Do you mean any of the following or a combination of the following:

A. without anger
B. without resentment
C. without causing her pain or anguish
D. without showing her your pain and anguish
E. respecting her choice of adultery over fildelity
F. showing her deep feelings of your desire and love for her
G. continued loving contact with her whenever possible
H. no expression of emotions on your part
I. full expression of emotions on your part

........

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree-eth!

Well, would you guys be surprised 2 learn that my W has said nothing 2 me since she got home last night about the NC issue?

Of course you wouldn't.

We did go out, but we haven't been "close" since she got back. I slept downstairs on the bed she thought was uncomfortable (2 stiff). I slept like a baby, though!

Gonna work on the house 2day. I consider it our real-estate investment for our lives apart... ...or 2gether, however this shakes down.

I'll "live" in one of the other rooms for now, but I don't really think it'll work for me long term. Upstairs in the attic space is my favorite option (more like a small apartment - about 1000 ft sq, and with my "observatory" in the roof), though the parlor downstairs is more comfy (and a lot closer, vertically, 2 the bathrooms). Long term, I'd rather have much more distance between us.

All this could change, of course, if she were 2 agree 2 nuke the rat bass turd and go 2 counseling, and I do try 2 keep that possibility open in my mind, but I have a very hard time believing it's anything less than wishful thinking on my part.

-ol' 2long

As the tone of this thread evolves its really becoming quite amusing, in a very ironic sense. What is the quote…”men plan and the Gods laugh.”

We sit here everyday…all of us on this board…pondering ways to bring our wayward ones back to us. Then the wayward return and we, the betrayed, salivate with anticipation! We are exultant with joy, almost inebriated with a sense of justice served. We exclaim, “finally…things will get back to the way they were!” But of course what we never admit to ourselves (except in those twilight times between sleep and semi-wakefulness…when our conscious self is most vulnerable to our subconscious self) is that what we really are eagerly anticipating is things getting back to the way we “thought” they were. LOL

Meanwhile those among us that think ourselves wise, begin to out think ourselves. We seek to know the answers to all the “why questions.” “Why did she decide to come back?” “Does she really love me and want me or is it a case of the OM choosing something different for himself and leaving me as her only alternative.” “Is she sorry for ever having done *it* or she just sorry to have hurt me?” “Will she do it again?” “Should I trust her?” “Can I believe her?” And then *it* dawns on us,…we “wise ones,” and we question how wise we really are! The “why” questions cannot be answered! After all, we think, how can we ever really know the *honest* answers to the why questions…? And so we settle in, wondering, waiting and worrying…but at least we have our dream back and after all, isn’t that what we wanted, fought for, dreamed of, preyed for?

Soon we realize that our dream is different then before. Now our dream is to is to be able trust again. To be able to trust with no fear of regrets. As for *being* loved? Well it *would* be nice but if we’re lucky, maybe someday...but the real truth is that if we were to be loved, would we be able to recognize it any more?

Next we begin to ask ourselves, “is this the road the sane man takes?” And if we are really as smart as we think ourselves to be, we sane men, we decide that the solution is to love because to love is a choice that an individual can make for himself and a sane man knows that to love is better then not to love! The sane man also knows that in giving love, he is giving himself the greatest opportunity to experience love.

The sane man learns to stop waiting and watching for disaster. He lives his life knowing that because disaster is always a heart beat away it’s better to live each day believing good things will happen rather then bad things.

The sane man doesn’t ask how to trust again, he simply trusts. The sane man doesn’t question every statement or word spoken to evaluate motive, find fault or to seek lies and deceit. The sane man understands that we live in a world where lies and deceit abound and it’s up to us to seek ways to believe and to understand and that in most cases, even the smallest truth we are given is more important then the lies we are asked to believe.

Most important, the sane man finally come to know that the deceptions of others are not his sins and cannot in any way make him less then who is.

The sane man decides to live and be happy, realizing that to do so is as simple as making a conscious decision to do so. He understands that if pain and betrayal once again become part of his life, although it may hurt no less the second time, this time he will better able to survive and reemerge an even wiser and better man.

Still, the sane man always remembers that this wisdom comes with a price…and that the price infidelity has exacted in payment is his innocence. His innocence! And the sane man mourns this loss knowing that it’s a price that can never be exchanged for fair value.

And so the sane man goes on with his life. He accepts his lot because to not accept is to invite insanity and turmoil and will only drive the price already paid to be become so high that it can never be paid!

So yes I am sad. All my choices have been stolen from me. The genie is out of the bottle and I am changed for all time…there is no going back. Damages can be paid and even vengeance taken cannot repay me; what has been stolen from me can never be returned. There is no pro quid pro…no equal value to be realized from this deal we know as life.

Ark asked, “what would I have done differently?” But that isn’t a question that has meaning to me. I ask, “what is that I could ever do that would change what was done to me?” And if any one can answer that question, please help me to know.

2long, this I know for sure. You must emerge from all of this being at peace with yourself because no matter what happens, that is the very least you deserve to have returned to you. And how fortunate are you, are we all, that this is something no one else need give us…that we…each of us…can take it for ourselves.

Coach

Coach, I love your posts. I feel so blessed to be in the company of all of the people on MB. It is truly a gift.

This truth you put out, amongst all those other truths makes me sadder than sad.

I do not know if I can reconize love again, or if I ever could. (omitting of course the love I feel/share with my DD).

I also think that the greatest loss of all, especially if you have been through betrayal with more than one spouse, is the possible loss of faith in love, in relationships. When does that hope leave, and never come back? Even for the sane man. I guess that is what is meant when they say that the greatest loss of all is the loss of faith.

Hi coach!

That was probably one of the most moving posts I've read on here in a long time.

You, of course, having gone through what I'm going through now, know exactly what it is that I see looming on the horizon. First, I've got 2 get through the fallout of the most recent d-day. Then? Hard 2 say, except for the knowledge that our "uniqueness" is exactly the same! And so the fu2re can be predicted a lot better than the weather, and a lot farther downrange, 2.

No mention of the FRMP all weekend. No mention of RM at all. My W did make curtains for the window in the Garret (I'll let you guys look that one up!) so that I could use the daybed up there. The guy who's replicating the patterned glass that was destroyed by the fire had cancer last summer, and though he was in remission, I'm wondering about him because he hasn't re2rned calls in months now. We gave him $1500 deposit for the glass, 2. But for now we've got clear float glass in the frame, and the window's right at floor height above the street below.

Anyway, she's being "supportive" of me sleeping in another room. It enables her 2 not make any decisions. I didn't stay in the garret, but the parlor downstairs instead. More comfy.

Gotta go. Gonna do fun stuff for myself in preparation for the telescope thing next weekend.

-ol' 2long