Just wondering..."just who is the she that she desperately needs to be?"

Do you know? Don't know if this is a valid response...and maybe it doesn't matter - but it could be that you have the opening for a discussion here.

AD:

And believe me, I'm willing 2 take responsibility for my part in letting it get this bad before burning my CACA card! I'm very remorseful for that.

CSue:

As far as I can figure (and the remark has been repeated multiple times over the last 15 years, maybe 23), it's the independent (fiercely so) girl I met 31 years ago. By marrying me, she feels like she forfeited her independence, even though by her own admission the first 15 years or so of our marriage were "pretty good".

Without elaboration, though, I'm just guessing from my own hurt perspective. But she's always complained that she set aside her own professional goals 2 be a W, have kids, support ME while I got my degrees. I remember the past somewhat differently. Yes, she's the one who encouraged me 2 persue my current career when I might not have done so without her encouragement, in 1981. ...but then, I encouraged her 2 persue her goals just ONE YEAR LATER. I've been workaholicing it for the past 24 years at this job (and the degrees I needed under my belt 2 keep it), yes with her help and self-sacrifice along the way, but the reciprocal is also true. She kept working in her field since 1982 up 2 the present day, and got her BA and MS (with my help, particularly typing, because she's strongly dyslexic). I typed her entire MS thesis - drafts and final formatting, figures and all. I stayed up late most weeknights helping her meet deadlines and get papers 2rned in. The only "same thing" I didn't do (not yet, at least) is support her while she gets a PhD. She was working on her MS at the same time RM was and while they were cheating on their spouses 2gether. He never finished his PhD, which he started about the time she finished her MS (she says he finished his MS, though, but his thesis isn't listed at the university's website).

So, from my point of view, skewed though it may be (certainly, from her viewpoint), is that we helped one another 2 become the individuals we are 2day, but she just chose 2 hide "who she is" from me since the A started 14 years ago.

I hereby let go of this nonsense.

-ol' 2long

So

free her....

insist that she go

Susan

I really don't think this would serve any useful purpose.

Susan

Susan:

I haven't sent it. I can't think of anything useful 2 say in response, so I won't respond.

I told her what I needed and what I'd do if I didn't get it. The hope, faint though it was, was that she'd agree 2 NC and we could take the next step - establish methods of verification and get back in2 counseling or coaching and come up with a plan 2 save our relationship. Obviously, she's not ready for that.

But I was. A long time ago. Again, I take responsibility, as a former card-totin' member of CACA, for not getting at least SOME of my point across long before now. If that was due 2 my refusal 2 go 2 plan B, then I own that bad decision. And, I'll urge anyone else, particularly people who come HERE for help, 2 follow the MB methods if they expect MB 2 help them save their marriages.

I might have saved myself a lot of pain and grief if I'd done that. I'll never really know. Mostly, I will probably agonize over whether my current choices might have been easier to make if I'd done things differently, or if I've "done right" by my W and my family by not following the plans.

Truthfully, though I'm clearly here posting when I should be working, I'm not in anything like the pain I felt in the past.

I guess I knew this was going 2 happen. Needed 2 burn the CACA card first.

-ol' 2long

2long,
Difficult and painful realizations to accept for sure but once reached, easier to come to terms with. The problem remains, however, with implementation; the acid test of all resolve. Talken the talk don’t make it happen….walken the walk is what makes it happen; but you know that…better then most I would suspect.
Coach

At this point I don't think taking responsibility is the issue.



The real issue now is

~Saying what you mean and meaning what you say.~

I hope you follow through with what you told her you would do if you didn't get it.


If not, this will happen over and over again...because she knows what you will do.



I hope your lack of pain does not stop you from doing what you know you should do.

Susan

Coach, Susan:

Indeed, I know I have 2 get busy now.

I keyed the phone numbers of the two lawyers in2 my cell phone. I should probably call now 2 set up an appointment with one. I'm nervous, probably from embarrassment more than anything else, at having "failed" after 29.5 years of marriage. What a collossal waste of time!

I had an appointment set up with a financial advisor for our retirement investments next Tuesday. I'm going 2 have 2 indefinitely postpone that, probably.

2uestion is what 2 do next. Not when. I doubt I'd have 2 kick her out. She isn't irresponsible with money (better than I am, ac2ally), and since nearly all our worth is tied up in our houses, it's highly unlikely she'll run off with it and leave me without. Even if she drained our bank account, it wouldn't set me back more than about a paycheck's worth (after taxes and redirects, that ain't much). She wouldn't have enough 2 live on if she moved out, without help. She could stay at her OOSP, though. That place has been paid for for about 85 years or so.

Maybe she could stay with RM. Who knows?

.

-ol' 2long

She wouldn't have enough 2 live on if she moved out, without help. She could stay at her OOSP, though. That place has been paid for for about 85 years or so.

Maybe she could stay with RM. Who knows?

This is her worry - if she leaves, she can worry about where she will go.

If she will not leave, then you can worry about it at that point in time.

Perhaps she will choose NC, we don't know yet.

SS

SS:

I hope so. But only just. I don't expect clarity after all this time of brown fog.

She really didn't even answer my question. We talked right past each other, just like always.

-ol' 2long

I understand, but she has consenquences now. (Or in two weeks?) I think this is new for her.

SS

SS:

Good point. I can afford 2 let her s2 for a while yet, and her 6 weeks away at her OOSP may be just the "time apart" that she said she thinks we need. I don't need time apart, I need a marriage, but she might need 2 cogitate, particularly in light of my newfound freedom from CACA.

I plan 2 enjoy that time apart, though. Maybe I'll head up north and see my sisters for the 4th, maybe just head out in2 the desert or the mountains with my scope and camera 2 image the Deep Impact probe hitting Temple 1. Who knows?

I'd like 2 finish the house, though. So, if we do divorce, I'd like 2 at least have the time 2 finish it and recover as much of the value out of it as I can. We'll see.

-ol' 2long

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I think "letting her stew" is YOU avoiding conflict. So you are not going to do anything...but let her have time apart and think?



So, you have no plans to take any action with her?

It doesn't sound like you have burned your CACA. What has really changed?

It reminds me very much of a person involved in an affair... all the talk means nothing. The only thing that means anything is their actions.

I'd be more embarrassed about letting her continue to kick me in the gut than I would be about what other people thought. (Even if she kicked so much that you didn't feel the pain anymore.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)

Susan

W is gone on a cruise with her M, and sisters the week before the 4th. Come by.

SS

As far as the house, you could just write in the agreement that after it's finished, it will be sold and the money split 60 40, or 50, 50 or whatever. Also a time table on when to have it done.

SS

" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I think "letting her stew" is YOU avoiding conflict. So you are not going to do anything...but let her have time apart and think?"

I'm going 2 file for separation or divorce AND let her have time apart 2 think. She's going anyway, and I can't control her even if I wanted 2. I certainly don't want 2 go WITH her and try not 2 control her or do my thing while I'm there. That wouldn't make any sense.

"So, you have no plans to take any action with her?"

As above.

"It doesn't sound like you have burned your CACA. What has really changed?"

I'm at peace. It's over as far as I'm concerned. ball's in her court. Other metaphors. But I'd be happy 2 talk with her about her gripes if it'll make her feel better. I realized I can do that now that my card is burned. I can talk 2 her, even let her rant, about our R and not get angry. I just realize that countering her gripes isn't useful until she makes an effort 2 get out of the fog.

"It reminds me very much of a person involved in an affair... all the talk means nothing. The only thing that means anything is their actions."

I get the 2nd sentence. Can't make sense of the first, though.

"I'd be more embarrassed about letting her continue to kick me in the gut than I would be about what other people thought. (Even if she kicked so much that you didn't feel the pain anymore.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />)"

I don't feel the pain because I'm content with my decision to end my marriage, not because I'm really numb. And she'll still have a chance 2 2rn this around, if that's what she wants. I'll continue 2 hope, but I have no expectations one way or the other.

-ol'2long

SS:

That might work! I've got a workshop last week of June, dates around the 27th, but no "plans" for the 4th anymore.

I know you know where it gets dark. Interested in watching faint fuzzies in the sky?

-ol' 2long

I'm interrested, maybe we can work something out.

I've seen places so dark at night, that you can actually see little sparkly things in the night sky.

SS

I was in Coal Valley, Nevada after dark once. Man! Must be why they named it that, as I don't believe there was any coal anywhere near it.

Darkest skies I've seen were in the Colorado Rockies in 1971, when I was in a mountaineering school with our church youth group. It was so dark!

Ever seen Venus cast shadows? Many people have. Ever seen Jupiter cast a shadow? I did, on the South Bass Trail in the Grand Canyon, 'bout 1973.

...when I got home, it was weird. My W was cheerful. She was tired, so we didn't go 2 the movie. She asked if I'd gotten her reply, and I said I had. I told her I didn't reply because I thought it would be better 2 talk about it in person here. She agreed, so I sat on the bed with her while the Hitler Channel was playing on the TV, After almost an hour of that, she didn't seem 2 want 2 talk, so I went downstairs 2 do the dishes.

While down there, I found myself getting progressively annoyed, and almost went up after 2 say "I did the dishes. Now can we get rid of Rat Meat?" But I didn't. Grabbed my 'Pute and here I am.

I love the quiet in here.
-ol' 2long

I was in Coal Valley, Nevada after dark once. Man! Must be why they named it that, as I don't believe there was any coal anywhere near it.

I don't even know where that is. Give me a hint.

Darkest skies I've seen were in the Colorado Rockies in 1971, when I was in a mountaineering school with our church youth group. It was so dark!

Darkest I remember was a night on a friends farm. It was overcast, no moon. There was one street light in about 10 miles, and it was out. We couldn't see to find where the truck was parked, wandered around until his dad started up said truck, and came looking for us. I think I was about 10 years old, and thought I was doomed. Pretty sure part of the dark was my age. Nothing has seemed as bad since I got older.

Ever seen Venus cast shadows? Many people have. Ever seen Jupiter cast a shadow? I did, on the South Bass Trail in the Grand Canyon, 'bout 1973.

No, - but I don't remember looking either. I bet you pay more attention to that stuff than I do.

...when I got home, it was weird. My W was cheerful.

She doesn't know you are going to file.



She was tired, so we didn't go 2 the movie. She asked if I'd gotten her reply, and I said I had. I told her I didn't reply because I thought it would be better 2 talk about it in person here. She agreed, so I sat on the bed with her while the Hitler Channel was playing on the TV, After almost an hour of that, she didn't seem 2 want 2 talk, so I went downstairs 2 do the dishes.

Darn tube wastes too much of our talk time too. Not because I watch though.

While down there, I found myself getting progressively annoyed, and almost went up after 2 say "I did the dishes. Now can we get rid of Rat Meat?" But I didn't. Grabbed my 'Pute and here I am.

I love the quiet in here.

I suppose doing the dishes is as good a reason as any to get rid of him.

So, she says "no, I won't be getting rid of RM."

And you say ?

SS