2long, I know that feeling so well. Can't... press... dial... button.

I just try to say, "Shut up right brain!" and do what must be done.

GC

coach:

Well, I would certainly like 2 think that I, at least, have realistic goals. I do admit that I get 2 do pretty nifty things at work, and that my W gets credit for encouraging me 2 persue those professional goals. But there are a few things that I've wanted 2 do my whole life that I know I'll never do. Chief among them - I'll never get 2 set foot on Mars personally.

My W doesn't appear 2 have realistic goals all the time. This isn't quite correctly stated, however. She's had similar oppor2nities 2 the ones I've had, different subject, though she insists that's not the case and more often than not blames me for the perceived missed chances.

I know her frustrations have nothing 2 do with me and a lot, probably, 2 do with rationalization and justification of poor choices.

I know *I* can see the wondrous opportunities she has before her right now. So do I. One of my goals is 2 see her fullfill her dreams 2 the best of her abilities (and they're pretty able abilities!). I tell her that when I can.

I tell her a lot of things. After what I've learned, most of the stuff I tell her is "good." But some of it isn't so good still (lovebusts). The net is always the same. I'm controlling and demanding, because I want her 2 get rid of RM.

She has great potential (professionally and spiri2ally). If only she'll realize it lies within herself. It doesn't come from me. It certainly doesn't come from Rat Meat. It doesn't even come from our kids.

But our FAMILY is a legitimate, wholesome source of joy and even some pride - a legacy that is still under construction.

Rat Meat will forever be a "bad decision," a "mistake".

-ol' 2long

"Lose You" - Pete Yorn

"I’m taking a ride off to one side
It is a personal thing.
Where? When I can’t stand
Up in this cage I’m not regretting.

I don’t need a better thing,
I’d settle for less.
It’s another thing for me,
I just have to wander through this world
Alone.

Stop, before you fall
Into the hole that I have dug here.
Rest, even as you
Are starting to feel the way I used to.

I don’t need a better thing
Just to sound confused.
Don’t talk about everyone,
I am not amused by you.

Cause I’m gonna lose ya
Yes I’m gonna lose ya
If I’m gonna lose ya...

Cause I’m gonna lose ya
Yes I’m gonna lose ya
If I’m gonna lose ya
I’ll lose you now for good"

-ol' 2long

2Long -

So.....you are demanding and controlling, too! Just like me, how about that? Have you been accused of acting like her father yet? Demanding that she end a relationship.

Yep...your WW and my WW need to get together and compare notes. Apparently they both have very unreasonable spouses!!

Georgia

My H called me controlling during his A. It was the first time I ever heard him use that term. I know that OW always described her H as being controlling. I am sure they commiserated on their shared plight.

And I always thought he had free will.

Oh, and by the way, now we joke about the term 'controlling'. He knows it was 'BS'.

Controlling? What’s wrong with controlling? Perfectly natural state of affairs. More important a very necessary state of affairs! Rules and regulations, ethical behavior, the concept of planning, environmental protection, woman’s rights (the right to be controlling), right to life (the movement), the Constitution of the US, parenting, education, medical care,…thank God for the concept of controlling!

When my WW used to throw that one at me, it really pissed me off! Not just because it was banal, stupid and a cliché but also because it was a gross misuse of language…which is a real sin! After all nothing destroys our ability to communicate faster then that…the misuse of language.

And so I would correct her LOL (talk about LBs, LMAO). In the most pompous, sardonic and sarcastic manner I could bring to bare, I would tell her that it was the degree of control that she found objectionable, not control itself. And then I would suggest that we would discuss that element. For example, (I would query) “do you find me controlling for objecting to your fornicating with your boy toy?” LOL And you know what? At the point when she was the deepest in her fog, she was thinking yes you SOB, it is controlling!! LOL, LOL!

Me I don’t pay attention to controlling…as it applies to others anyway. I do pay attention to controlling as it applies to my life however (as much as any one can)…and a wife that fornicates with other men is not part of my plan! So call me controlling! LOL

Coach

coach, Trix:

Yep, I'm controlling!

Also, "imma2re." (like, putting up with secret emails and...? with her former AP would be ma2re of me!!! - hey, I've been ma2re for at least the past 14 years! Ain't I something!?)

Never mind that she's irresponsible. I didn't point that out, but I could.

I still need 2 tell our son. He's planning on going 2 her OOSP with her next Thursday. I'd still like it if he goes, but he needs 2 be able 2 make that decision himself.

A friend of mine quoted Eisenhower yes2rday. It was about something at work, but it applies:

"Plans are worthless. Planning is everything."

-ol' 2long

If 2long is immature I wonder what makes me? Maybe I am not even a tadpole, just a cup of the primordial mud hanging around.

2long, I just wanted to get back to you on your thought provoking questions on my other thread about gambling. I've been busy with sons graduation tomorrow and haven't had a chance to write. You asked did I do it on my own? Here's how it played out.

In 90' there were load of bill collectors calling W for loans she was unaware of; D-Day #1. Not that much fallout actually so I just go underground a bit and continue. In 92' I was in Asia while W discovers I have a post office box where all this mail now goes. It was gutwrenching trying to talk her off the ledge from overseas.

Meantime my mother is dying of cancer and my bank calls me in to question me about kiting checks. As tears stream down my face the banker woman tells me it can be fixed. I reply that's not what I'm crying about. My mom died the next day. As Irish people do, I went to the liquor store to buy all the booze for after the funeral. The clerk said American Express wants to talk to you. With my 5 year old son with me I was told by AMEX that your purchase is denied.

Later, I'm in front of the CEO and E.V.P. of the $1 billion dollar company I work for. They are also involved and trying to help me right the ship financially (I'm still a charmer). I agree to GA meetings. There is more and more of this but you get the point. It took a series of 2x4's to finally realize I had to stop. Kinda like when alcoholics hit rock bottom I suppose. You may see some similar results in your sitch if W sees you are really serious about divorce. So when you and I get beat up for enabling I don't take it personal. I agree with your analogies on my post about murdering OM etc. Despite the pain we need to keep this in perspective. It is not the crime of the century. Anyway hang in there and good luck. I hope things turn out well.

And yes, change is very hard.

WOE

2long:
I see you still go to work, and that you appear to do a very good job while there.

It looks like you are still working on the house, and doing dad stuff like you should be doing.

To get to the point - Your life still looks pretty good in many areas. You won't die from whatever happens, nor will it break your spirit, or your abilities.

I am happy that things are not worse - they could be much worse.

My belief is that you can and will have a very rewarding life.

Still.

In spite of stuff.

Mostly life is what we make of it, even with the bad added in. I guess I believe in your ability to make lemonaid out of these lemons.

Gather as much information as you can (lawyer,) you don't have to use it if you don't want to.

SS

2Long,

I had a hard time going to the lawyer - but it was helpful and informative. I felt better prepared for whatever happened.

A harder thing was mailing that item to the DNA lab - which was almost a month ago and still I have no results. I call them every day latetly, and they say "today or tomorrow we will send the report". Anyway, I didn't realize how bad that would make me feel.

And now, leaving - especially when W is asking for money.

- Money for her classes.
- Money for her teeth.
- Money to prepay the rent for 6 months 'cause they wouldn't take her signature on a lease because she doesn't have enough income.

(where was I?)

Oh yes, leaving her and not responding to her "needs" (as she sees them) is the hardest part yet.

Please forgive me if I offended you by implying that you were taking back up the CA ways. You're a great guy - and however you want to approach your situation, you have my respect.

-AD

Wow, WOE.

That's quite a story. I have 2 remember at times that my "fondness" of my telescope hobby has been perceived by my W as "replacing" her. Doesn't matter whether it's true or not. It is a factor and something we'll have 2 address once and if we can get RM out of the pic2re.

...though I had been outside with my scope and cameras less than a week before d-day #1, I stopped cold-turkey for more than a year. And it was her urging me 2 take it up again that made me even feel like it at all.

After that, I only got them out when she wasn't home or was otherwise occupied (with interests of her own). When I've been "separated" in the house - last year for 5 months and now for the past 2ple of weeks, I do what I want when I want, though. Even so, I've chosen 2 spend time with her the past several evenings.

SS:

Yep. I've got 2 make that call.

-ol' 2long

AD:

No offense taken. This CA avoidance (CAA!) is like salvation should be: Must be a daily vigilance thing, not a one-off event.

-ol' 2long

2long,

Growing up in a family of lawyers, I was accepted to law school myself but decided on grad school in physics instead (my dad is probably still disappointed, and he’s been dead for 25 years) I assure you it is not a big deal to call an attorney for advice. A good atty is like a good coach. You will get help in laying out your options and the probable consequences. You will not be made to do anything you don’t want to.

Make the call. You won’t regret it. Knowledge may or may not be power but it certainly is better than CA’ing one's head into the sand.

Edited to add: I talked to an atty about six weeks after D-Day2. I felt better knowing what I could and couldn't do and what would help me and what would hurt me. I learned what W could and couldn't get away with and that helped too.

Ap:

Funny that you mentioned it.

I had just made the call when I saw your post.

Boy, that was amazingly painless and unembarrassing!

An in-office consultation will cost me $325. I haven't done that yet. But the phone convo Q and As were very helpful. He first asked about duration of our M, who's working how much, and assets, even before asking what the reasons for my call were. I told him, and he asked whether there was any propensity for violence. No, so he doesn't think I need 2 worry about being taken 2 the cleaners (there isn't anything 2 take). He understands that we're getting along alright, but that I'm "done" with this perpe2ual low-level emotional pain. He'll be ready for a consultation when I'm ready.

-ol' 2long

$325 for about an hour of sitting around a conference table...

Don't you wish Physicists make that kind of dough?

I really should have gone to law school.

Edit: I think I would like to specialize in taking WSs to the cleaners.

Ap:

Or medical school. I was on jury duty about 5 years ago where Coroners consulting on a malpractice suit were being paid $600/hr 2 sit in the courtroom in case they might be called as witnesses.

Sheesh! (all I got was $10/day!)

-ol' 2long

Ap:

And that reminds me of a King Crimson song (I know, what doesn't? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />):

"Lament" (Fripp, Wetton, Palmer-James), from the "Starless and Bible Black" album.

"I guess I tried to show you how
I'd take the crowd with my guitar,
And business men would clap their hands
And clip another fat cigar.
And publishers would spread the news
And print my music far and wide.
All the kids who played the blues
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide.

But now it seems the bubble's burst,
Although you know there was a time
When love songs gathered in my head,
With poetry in every line.
And strong men strove to hold the doors,
While with my friends I passed that age
When people stomped on dirty floors -
Before I trod the rock'n'roll stage.

I'll thank the man who's on the 'phone
And if he has the time to spend.
The problem I'll explain once more
And indicate a sum to lend.
That ten percent is now a joke.
Maybe thirty, even thirty-five!
I'll say my daddy's had a stroke.
He'd have one now, if he only was alive!

I like the way you look at me!
You're laughing too down there inside.
I took my chance and you took yours.
You crewed my ship, we missed the tide!
I like the way the music goes,
There's a few good guys who can play it right.
I like the way it moves my toes.
Just say when you want to go and dance all night!..."

-ol' 2long

It would be interesting, no doubt, to see a coroner sued by a patient for malpractice.

They were witnesses for the defense. The "patient" died.

Despicable part was when we had 2 decide how much her time with her grandkids would have been worth if she'd lived about 5 years longer than she did (she'd been a smoker for 52 years).

I hated the case.

-ol' 2long