This morning, we were watching Today, with Ann Curry interviewing AJ.

I used 2 hate AJ, because one of the emails I found on d-day 000000001 was a convo about how RM "wants" someone like AJ. My W said she's sorry he couldn't have had her when she was 26, and he replied "well, I can have you now."

So, I hated AJ, and for nothing she ever did. Now I don't hate her, because of what she said about all the speculation of her and Pitt having an A. And not really because of what she said, entirely. I'd heard that before this morning. But she said it "again" with my W listening. And she asked me "so, shouldn't she not have any more contact with BP?" And I replied, "Well, assuming what she says is true [that she wouldn't be attracted 2 a married man because one of her parents cheated on the other, and she can't respect that kind of behavior], she didn't have an affair with him, so there's no reason she couldn't have continued contact with him. Let the papparazis all trip over one another trying 2 find stories where they don't exist."

My W just "hmpf"ed and clammed up. I had 2 get ready for work, and when I got back upstairs, she was sewing (she's been doing a lot more around the house lately) and sniffling a bit. When I kissed her goodbye on my way out, her eyes were a little red. Nothing I can do about that. I won't try 2 smooth over her pain there anymore. Doesn't mean I don't love her. I very definitely do. I'm helping her more by letting her face this than by consoling her (which never worked anyway).

How'm I doing? She leaves for her OOSP in 3 days, and I feel like a kid 3 days before Christmas.

-ol' 2long

Glad to hear you called an ambulance chaser to get to know that part of the "business."

WAT

I very definitely do.(Love her) I'm helping her more by letting her face this than by consoling her (which never worked anyway).

Agree !!!


How'm I doing? She leaves for her OOSP in 3 days, and I feel like a kid 3 days before Christmas.

Cause you are going to have her served when she gets back?

In many ways you sound better, but I still think you need to let her know you plan to D her soon. It sounds like she still doesn't know that.

SS

Have you thought about just blurting it out: "Dear W, what do you think about us D'ing?"

All:

Been tied up with work most of the day!

We did talk about DV last week, but she brought it up. Saying something like "you realize that DV wouldn't be the end of the world" in a manner that made me realize that she believes I DO think it would be the end of the world.

It wouldn't, though it certainly would be an end, and a hard one.

I should tell her that I won't wait long for her 2 choose, assuming she's choosing 2 choose at all. Sometimes, it feels like it. Most times, it doesn't.

I'd still even go 2 her OOSP next week myself if we could agree on NC, followed by verification and serious g-d-damned MC 2gether for however long it takes 2 reconnect. But I doubt very much we'll get there by Thursday. She'll be gone until after the 4th, though we'll likely talk occaisionally while she's there. I'll probably at least meet with the lawyer for an in-office consultation meeting 2 see what needs 2 be done in preparation for filing.

-ol' 2long

2long,
So she is making the decision as to weather you two will divorce or not? She cheats and she decides to stay or go on torment you with indecision or to string you along till after July 4th?

And while she’s away does she still intend to have her boy friend come visit? Just as a friend of course…And then after that maybe this choice she will make will be manifested by what? Weather or not she agrees to no contact…(until the same time next year maybe…hey there was a movie by that name wasn’t there?)….again!

And does she know that you are expecting her to make this decision? And if so, does she realize that you may be just a tad impatient…or is possible that you haven’t communicated this to her?

2long, I love ya bro, I truly do…but really,…for such an essentially bright man you do manage to do some mighty squirrelly kinds of things.

I.e., you and your wife decides that you two will see an investment councilor together and you go along with this like its business as usual? So there was your opportunity to make a statement, nothing huge mind you, just a simple “hey WW, you know I see no profit in meeting with a finance person to discuss a future that doesn’t seem to be in the cards for us.”

So OK you believe in civility…so I wouldn’t expect that you would behave like a mean SOB (such as yours truly for example, LOL)? But really 2long, couldn’t you have just told her in the kindest kind of way that you saw no profit in wasting the nice ladies time discussing future income when you fully expected that there was not to be any future for the two of you.

2long, the way you describe it, its business as usual…except she doesn’t have to bother sleeping with you any more! Out together socially and as a family. Meals together and all kinds of pleasant conversation. Very sophisticated but could you humor poor stupid me and explain what the hell you’re doing?

Don’t you think that the lady deserves some idea as to what your plans are and what the time line is on this thing? Don’t you think she deserves to at least know that you’re serious or am I presuming too much…I mean are you serious or is it OK with you for the two of you to live as roommates?

You are sending this lady very mixed signals 2long. This is not nice…who can blame her if she thinks that you don’t really care what she does and who she does it with? I mean she hears you complaining but…

Coach

Coach:

"So she is making the decision as to weather you two will divorce or not?"

No.

"She cheats and she decides to stay or go on torment you with indecision or to string you along till after July 4th?"

Hm... Not really. I ac2ally want her 2 go. Well, perhaps there's some of that on her part, but do I care if there is? Not really.

"And while she’s away does she still intend to have her boy friend come visit?"

I have no idea. Better not, because if my son still decides 2 go after I've told him, my normally-passive son (who's a lot bigger than I am), he might just change HIS behavior and jerk a knot upside RM's haid.

" Just as a friend of course"

Of course!

"And then after that maybe this choice she will make will be manifested by what? Weather or not she agrees to no contact…(until the same time next year maybe…hey there was a movie by that name wasn’t there?)….again!"

I hated that movie from the first time I saw part of it on the Lobotomy Box (never saw the whole thing).

"And does she know that you are expecting her to make this decision?"

Yes, she does.

"And if so, does she realize that you may be just a tad impatient…or is possible that you haven’t communicated this to her?"

Many times. Always reinterpreted. You know this stuff. I say stuff 2 her and she hears, gets mad, cries, laughs, ignores...

"2long, I love ya bro, I truly do…but really,…for such an essentially bright man you do manage to do some mighty squirrelly kinds of things."

I don't feel squirrelly at all.

"I.e., you and your wife decides that you two will see an investment councilor together and you go along with this like its business as usual?"

Made the appointment before d-day 230589327450239874.

"So there was your opportunity to make a statement, nothing huge mind you, just a simple “hey WW, you know I see no profit in meeting with a finance person to discuss a future that doesn’t seem to be in the cards for us.”"

I thought it was a very profitable meeting. That, and my convo with the DV lawyer put 2 rest my fears that either one of us could get soaked by the other if they tried 2 r*u*n*n*o*f*t.

"So OK you believe in civility…so I wouldn’t expect that you would behave like a mean SOB (such as yours truly for example, LOL)?"

LOL! ;o)

"But really 2long, couldn’t you have just told her in the kindest kind of way that you saw no profit in wasting the nice ladies time discussing future income when you fully expected that there was not to be any future for the two of you."

No matter what, there's a fu2re for a time while we get the house 2gether. And my coach suggested I explore a possible settlement that allows me 2 keep the house and pay her off over time and let her have my share of the equity in our other house. If that doesn't work, though, selling both houses will leave each of us nicely set for our lives apart.

"2long, the way you describe it, its business as usual…except she doesn’t have to bother sleeping with you any more! Out together socially and as a family. Meals together and all kinds of pleasant conversation. Very sophisticated but could you humor poor stupid me and explain what the hell you’re doing?"

LOL! Probably not!

"Don’t you think that the lady deserves some idea as to what your plans are and what the time line is on this thing? Don’t you think she deserves to at least know that you’re serious or am I presuming too much…I mean are you serious or is it OK with you for the two of you to live as roommates? "

I think she knows I'm serious. This OOSP is a big deal for her. She relies on me 2 help shore up THAT house, 2. I had planned 2 go, but have told her I'm not anymore. ANYMORE. Not without permanent NC. She knows this, coach.

"You are sending this lady very mixed signals 2long. This is not nice…who can blame her if she thinks that you don’t really care what she does and who she does it with? I mean she hears you complaining but…"

But what? Perhaps things sound more "business as usual" when you read this stuff. In some regards they are. In others... ...I can't and don't want 2 try plan B as it's commonly known. I think most people who know my sitch know why that's the case now.

best,
-ol' 2long

Ah 2long. You are truly an immovable object. Did I mention inscrutable as well!
By the way, as a man whose daughter just got married, you should appreciate this. My middle daughter lives in SF. She’s getting married at the end of this month…get this…in Vermont! My darling ex WW has been flying all over the US to wedding showers…tell me is this a west coast thing? Living on one coast, getting married on the other coast while celebrating on both coasts? (at great expense to her poor suffering father!) And my youngest girl live in Portland…she’s into dragon boat racing…dragon boat racing? What’s that about? How about crewing on the Charles River like a civilized person? I ask you 2long...where did I go wrong?
Coach

Sorry 2long, but I can't resist...

"dragon boat racing? What’s that about? How about crewing on the Charles River like a civilized person? I ask you 2long...where did I go wrong? "

coach, I've crewed on the Charles River, and I've come darn close enough to "dragon boat" racing.
The only wrong thing you did was to raise a girl who wasn't afraid to figure out which of the two was more fun! (Sounds right to me!)

Well, coach.

Though your ideal scenario from back on page whenever that was was pretty near perfect, my "execution" of it this am was not.

I didn't just listen. I listened and tried 2 answer questions, because I perceived the questions as personal affronts that I felt like I had 2 defend. And since she was defending herself, we defended back and forth for much of the convo.

But I did tell her that I talked 2 a lawyer when she said we probably should separate...

...she just called me and asked if I could set up an appointment with the lawyer for both of us 2 see him before she leaves (now Friday, was Thursday). So I called him, and we're on for a consultation meeting for mediation at 11am PDT 2morrow...

Knowing me, you guys probably realize I'll be wondering forever whether I've done the right thing or not. But RM is clearly still 2 important 2 her for me 2 want 2 stay M'd 2 her. 14 years is a very long time.

I'd better pay my coach for my last session and bring her up 2 date.

-ol' 2long

2long my freind ... It is about time. U could wait 4 ever ... 4 what ?. ... if you have 2 be a doormat u have to know why ... otherwise it is futile and enabeling.

In CA, since the only diff. between separation n DV'ed is ability to M someone else ... I think it is better to DV'ed N move on.

-rh-

rh:

I tend 2 agree with you.

The truly sad thing is that my W is still pretty foggy about all of this. She's upset with me for not keeping my "promise" 2 her 2 come out next week and work on her OOSP like I had said before finding the latest emails. I reiterated that I'd be happy 2 still go if she'd agree 2 NC before then. No deal, though. And when I pointed out that she'd broken her promise 2 me by having the A, she said that she hadn't, that they're friends, and she didn't promise me she wouldn't have friends.

So, I quit. None of these convos do either of us any good.

She did sound cheerful when she called me, though. That's good.

-ol' 2long

Your W is skilled at compartmentalizing her life and she would like to keep it that way.

Trix:

Very definitely. And my "failure" over the past 3 years has been in hoping, even faintly, that I could impact that in any way by anything I've done or said during that time.

I'd love 2 talk 2 her about her gripes about me all those years ago. She brings them up, but she won't talk with me about them... ...but of course, I need her 2 get rid of RM before we can succeed at healthy conflict.

I don't think we'll ever get there, but I'll keep watching for the signs, just in case.

-ol' 2long

2long,
You probably won’t listen to me but please try…Please, and please do it with an open mind.

1. First of all, it ain’t over till the fat lady sings! She ain’t through with you! Count on it!
2. Call her bluff! She thinks she’s calling your bluff! She thinks that she is going to put you in your place now,…once and for all! The first one to blink looses. You have to have the confidence of your convictions and take them right to the bitter brink and over if that’s what’s required! Your W is a bully! She does not want the D any more then you do! She just wants to have things her own way. Set that meeting up with the lawyer and don’t you dare back down. In fact, this would be a good time to get a teensy bit contentious with her. Nothing overt or mean spirited mind you, (cold civility and business like should do it). Give her just a taste of what mean and nasty is REALLY like!
3. Re-read my earlier post. If the things I suggested before were important, factor it now by 10 x! Be in control…of yourself! No arguments! You said it, now mean it and don’t debate it! Live it! This is red line time. Show any weakness now and you’re dead meat!
4. You’re about to find out what she really feels about you and the marriage. If she doesn’t back down then to live separate lives may end up being the best solution.
5. She won’t be forced to make any decision easily! She will first scream, holler and negotiate! She will offer compromise. She will cry, threatened and cajole! She will be so cold that your very bones will freeze! She will finally ask the big question! The only important question from her and the only one you need to answer.
6. Question: “2long do you really want a D?” 2long: “Of course not, but I will no longer live with you as things are!” End of conversation!
7. Do not bend! Do not argue. Do not negotiate! Adopt and an attitude that conveys, quiet, assertive, civil, polite and even regretful! But no anger and no compromise! And no pouting! Now is the time to treat this like just another walk in the park.

2long you can do this. Hard I know but you can make this happen if you handle it right.
Coach

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

2long: U could keep licking the bread crumbs ur W gave U or U could eat the whole new loaf of bread.

I knew back then when I pettitioned the Judge to change my status to Dv'ed that if I wait long enough A would have ended. I knew that time I would not want to wait for 2.5 f..king years licking the crumbs N hurts and then trying to help her go through the withdrawals. I had made my decision.

Today ... Her R is crumbling and I could walk in and fight for her. I am not even considering it at all. I would have make the same decision back then with today's hintsight. Why ?. I would not healed and grew as a person if I have waited. Today I would not threw all I have gain to salavage what was shattered. Wiseman said ... you never be able to put together a broken plate, it always shows its cracks.

If you stay ... you have to be able to take her along with RM. If you go ... finsihed it up and cut the ties w/ DV'ed, don't even prolong it w/ separation. Don't look back.

-rh-

Coach:

Why do you think I won't listen 2 you? I sure know this stuff, and have reminded myself, rather painfully, just why some of the core wisdom from MB and elsewhere really, truly does apply directly 2 my sitch.

Of all the things I'm doing right now, learning, conintuously, 2 listen better - 2 EVERYONE (good ideas and "bad" ones) - is by far the most important 2 me. It is so obvious that we all view the world and the actions of the people around us so differently that oppor2nities for misinterpretation abound in every interaction all the time. So listening is important. And listening without reacting is also important. I need more work in that area.

Do I want a divorce? Hell the f*** NO! and I have said many times that I can't live with my W the way she thinks I should be willing 2 live. Like I told her, I would be happy 2 go 2 her OOSP next week if she'd end contact for life right now. ...she says that the A saved her LIFE, for crying out loud! AND *I* could have stopped it before it ever happened! (I know, I shouldn't react, just listen and let it pass).

...anyway, I just want you 2 know that I read and re-read your posts 2 my thread. And that goes for the rest of you fine people, 2.

-ol' 2long

Hi 2long.

Just wanted to say that some of us are reading right along, and think think this is really interresting, but don't have much to say.

You realize that even though you are doing better at talking to her, you still REACT sometimes instead of ACTING. I have a hard time with that too. Listening and showing you understand, but don't agree and won't go along will help.

Don't accept blame. Everyone could have done better if they had known, but so what.

God could right every wrong, heal every sickness, prevent every crime and so on, but he doesn't. He lets us live together, and we get the consenquences of our choices. She gets hers.
She wants RM, she doesn't get you. She wants you, she gives up RM.

We get to choose one thing or the other, but not both, it doesn't work that way with most things in life.

You can quote me, but I probably got it from someone else, but don't remember when or who.

You are sounding really good. Better in fact than I have heard in a while. Is it for real?

SS

Tell her the D will save yours.