AD:

No, that's not it at all. I could file yes2rday if I wanted 2 hire a lawyer and fight her.

This way, we work on an agreement.

But I'd sure like RM 2 pay the $5K. I can sue him for Alienation of Affection, since he's in NM. It might just be fun!

-ol' 2long

The Family Law of CA is very clear of this ... 6 months from her being served of Dv'ed paper. If you do separation ... when you want to Dv'ed, you have to wait 6 months.

I bet she would be very hostile in attempt to control you, mediator is not a way to go. Get a lawyer and served her by June 27th.

-rh-

rh:

How much did your DV cost?

I'm thinking that a unilateral filing, so long as there's not contesting, would be cheap.

?

-ol' 2long

I see.

I thought it must be something like that.

Here where I live an "uncontested D" is very quick - 30 days from filing, but both have to sign off on it - and both have to attend the "parenting in D" seminar (if they have kids at home).

If a couple wants to fight it out, they wait 1 year for a court date just to start. If somebody wants to drag it out, it can be almost 2 years. So, they are trying to force people to sit down and work it out and go the uncontested route... and most people do. So, they don't have to hire more judges... and our taxes are a lot lower than yours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, 2Long (and RH too if you've got the time), I'm going to try to formulate some kind of action plan over on my "letter" thread. I'll take it piece by piece so it won't take me an hour to post. I'd appreciate your comments if you are still around tonight.

Thanks,
-AD

Mine cost me $10K+, I have to pay her initial cost $5K ... so in total about $15K+.

2long, cut your losses and judging from her. She seems would turn nasty if she doesn't get her way. JMVHO.

-rh-

rh:

Thanks for the advice, but I dont' think she'll get nasty.

I really don't.

She doesn't bite my neck or anything!

-ol' 2long

ROTFL
Just in case wear a turtle neck and ear guards if she seems to get a little testy.

ALW:

Dont laugh, Coach's W DOES bite!

Youch!

-ol' 2long

2long,

That is why you should invest in several protective items, like:

Comfortable yet stylish helmet (painted flames in the sides are a plus, its been proven that painted flames make everything faster, included thought).

A nice collection of turtle necks with shoulder padding (uncomfortable during the summer, but you can opt for a dickie then).

Other protective devices that can be found in your local sport goods store.

I myself just rather a big stick for self defensve and ocassional poking.

Cast iron jock strap, perhaps?

Mine wants to use mediator too initially ... it got nasty very quick. If she won't then why not use a lawyer ?.

My exW didn't bite either ... just drained my wallet LOL!.

-rh-

Nope, they didn't offend and they were said by WAT, not you, anyway.



My "take" is something that you aleady know, but have rejected. That is the sovereignty of God. That is that Jesus Christ is real. That is that God is about the business of "CHANGING LIVES."




2Long, your wife is having a "hard time" disconnecting totally from the OM for a number of reasons, but the primary reason is that God created women, moreso than men, to emotionally bond with males. Many women will tell you that they "can't make love to more than one man at time." It's because of that "completer" role that God gave women. Yes, I know, there are many "exceptions," but for the most part those exceptions are based in a futher corruption of God's plan and the choosing of sin over obedience to God.

Undoubtedly your wife's affair BEGAN as a friendship that was allowed to "cross the line." No doubt that in some ways the OM is "good person." They (OP's) pretty much have to be sort of "good" by human standards unless our spouses have really debased decision making processes and are themselves really warped. But one thing that is difficult fot a lot of men to understand is that the "outward physical appearance" of an OM is NOT very high on most women's "need" list. They are MUCh more into the fulfilment of their Emotional Needs. Hence the "scratching of heads" when we see physically beautiful women hooked up with what we might consider "physical toads."

So your wife is also probably suffering from another common trend in women. They usually form friendships easier than more "competitive" men do. They usually form MORE friendships than men do (usually a very few for men).

She is trying to return to that "friend" state that existed before the affair, because the OM HAS intrinsic "good things" about him. The hard part for her is to realize and accept that there CAN BE NO putting the "broken egg back togehter the way it was BEFORE the affair," because the affair itself cannot be erased. It will always be a part of REALITY, not fantasy.

Part of recovery, for anyone, is that there WILL be places you can no longer go, things you can longer listen to or watch, people you can no longer associate with in any way, jobs you can no longer stay at or take, etc. These are COSTS and CONSEQUENCES of the choice to commit adultery and the and minimum requirements for RESTORATION if we want to recover our marriages and if our faithful spouse is willing to "give us a second chance."

Just as an aside that might have application to this whole "contact or no contact" thing after the affair....do you (or your wife) think it would be "acceptable" for Michael Jackson to continue sleeping in the same bed with young boys in the future? Even IF there is "nothing going on," don't you think the mere "appearance" of impropriety SHOULD be enough to demand a permanent end to such behavior and choices?

The bottom line is Class II entangled affairs are the hardest to recover from, especially when the "affairee" is a woman. That's BECAUSE of the huge involvement of their emotions and their basic "caring" nature. "Cutting off" someone permanently and completely, ala "No Contact" is very difficult for them.

Time and much patience on the part of the BS husband is needed. It, unfortunately, DOES take a long time to get extricated from all of the tendrils of an entangeled affair, things like "friendship" and valuing "friend related contributions."

The timeline that Torn Asunder gives is fairly accurate. On AVERAGE, it will take recovery as long as it took for the WS to get into and out of the affair. The HARD part for the BS's is the commitment and patience to "wait it out" and to give recovery the needed time. 3 years IS a long time, humanistically speaking. Geologically or eternally, 3 years isn't even a drop in the bucket.

But we, as living hunmans with a finite lifespan, DO measure the passage of time. We DO want results "now," not later.

2Long, IF, as you have repeatedly said, you DON'T want a divorce, you want an end to all contact, forever, with the OM, then you have to take steps to "confront" the contact AND to give your wife the time to get "untangled." Waiting and patience SUCK at times. You might be surprised to know that over the course of the last 3 years of recovery I have been dangerously close to pulling the "divorce trigger" many times. It HURTS every time there is a contact or the realization that our spouse doesn't yet "get it" that NO contact is permanent and forever. It IS a CONSEQUENCE of their actions. It is the LEAST that they can do in "repayment," if you will.

Just as Hiroshima has been rebuilt, another atomic bomb dropped on it today would have just as devastating an effect. Just as we cannot "put Hiroshima" back the way it was before the first bomb was dropped, we cannot put the "friendship" back the way it was before the affair. THAT bomb (affair) WAS dropped. We CAN rebuild and make the marriage "BIGGER AND BETTER," but we can never return to the "way it was."

THAT truth is what is so hard for them to understand and accept. That truth is what often takes so long. That, coupled with the BS's need to change also, is why recovery is so HARD and so time consuming.

How deep is our "patience bank?" What resources do we have and are there enough resources if the process takes longer than we "thought" going in? (a little creationist analogy thrown in for a little humor in such a difficult topic)

No, 2Long, it is NOT easy. But you know me...grin. I hold fast to Jesus Christ, the real living God, and to the promise contained in Philippians 4:13, "I CAN do ALL things THROUGH him (Jesus Christ) who gives me (his) strength."

2Long, LOVE exists and is real, even though it can't be measured and quantified.

The question your wife has yet to be confronted with and yet to answer is the same question that we are ALL faced with.

What do your marriage VOWS mean to you?

If they mean anything, then "forsaking ALL others" applies to friends, family, everyone, if necessary for the good of the marriage.

If they mean anything, then "in sickness (mental and/or physical) or in health, for richer (monetarily and emotionally) or for poorer, for better or for worse (doesn't get much worse than adultery), until DEATH do us part" has to be affirmed or abandoned by each of us. The "VALUE" we place on our vows, our commitments, is a personal choice. We can "say" the words to get what we want in moment, or we can "mean" them, "come hell or high water!"

Doing it with God is hard enough. Doing it without God..., let's just say that I understand your feeling of "not being able to do it anymore" in your own resouces.

God bless. And I truly hope I have not offended you or "butted in" where angels fear to tread.

FH:

See? You CAN communicate effectively without using jargon! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It was JL who first said 2 me that it might take my W as long 2 recover as it did 2 get in2 the A, possibly even as long AS the A. When I heard that, I swore that I wouldn't last that long...

...but here I am. Clearly, I've learned patience if I've learned anything. The question will always be, though, is it worth it? Well, if asked whether I think my W is worth my patience and consideration, I would say yes, of course. Love IS real, it IS a choice, and it doesn't drain away like we often describe here using terms like "lovebank" and "love deposits". Juxtaposed with that patience is a certain degree of impatience, the desire to "get over it already" repeatedly coming back and trying 2 take control of the si2ation.

I have no idea how much more of this I can take, even though I've clearly taken it for a long time already. I also don't know who I'm doing "favors" for by being so patient, waiting for others 2 do what I believe I have done, and face their demons just as I believe I have had 2 for 3.5 years.

The best advice I've gotten has been 2 let go of the need 2 control outcomes. Keep moving forward as an individual. Set, by example, the kind of standards I would like 2 see shown by those around me.

So, I have no idea what I'll do still, though I do like Still Seeking's sample letter a lot. I also like Coach's, but more for the drama effect - that isn't me, so I couldn't say that, even though I might be able 2 make points like that.

"My "take" is something that you aleady know, but have rejected. That is the sovereignty of God. That is that Jesus Christ is real. That is that God is about the business of "CHANGING LIVES.""

Whatever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> No offense taken.

More later, just started a pot of coffee.

-ol' 2long

Yo ole 2L -

I thought your second e-mail about the mower and RM was spot on - on both topics.

She wants to "make before break". This is what we call it in power plant terminology when you are re-aligning breakers and sync in the new source before separating from the old source. This preserves power to the loads and prevents a dead bus.

MB no contact in order to "re-make" the marriage breaker alignment requires a dead bus transfer. The WS has to trust that the alignment will be made in order to go without power in the interim. Very difficult for many of them to do.

But you already know this.

WAT

WAT:

I ac2ally know of what you speak!

23 or so years ago, when I was between working in the oil fields in the Central Valley and working on Mars, I worked with my dad and his friend testing switching equipment for the phone company. When they had 2 take a system off-line, they had 2 have a certified expert (probably some union of higher food groups than us) 2rn one breaker off while simultaneously 2rning another on, so gramma and li'l junior's convo wouldn't be interrupted.

What I need is an archaeology metaphor for that process. My W wouldn't "listen" 2 that.

She sent me another email this morning, all cheerful-like. I decided 2 respond in kind and let her think about what I'd said before. It won't go away. I won't let it.

-ol' 2long

Might have been a good time to send a SS like email back to her.

Trix:

I agree, though I'm not certain that I have the current email address for her friend (though I probably do, I want 2 be sure). And I think cc'ing it 2 her at least, maybe also 2 RM, would be appropriate at this junc2re.

I've never "exposed" 2 HF, and now that my W has, but only "partly" (her words), it might be useful 2 tell her my side of the story (and since she's the one hiring RM, it might convince her not 2 do that).

-ol' 2long

Sure you know what you'll do. It may not have impinged upon your conscious thought yet, but you DO know what to do.

Lead by example.

Begin by revisiting your BOUNDARIES and STANDARDS.

What will you NOT allow to be done to you and what are the various consequences you will imposse for violations of your boundaries? Is there a "nuclear option" or are there a series of consequences that you can implement?

What are the STANDARDS you choose to live your life by and how YOU will behave toward others? Love, patience, longsuffering, perseverence, "Golden Rule," are but some things that come to mind. But which are YOUR chosen Standards that YOU will employ regardless of what anyone else may, or may not, do?

"What I need is an archaeology metaphor for that process. My W wouldn't "listen" 2 that."

Okay, diamonds are rare and precious. So is a "pearl of great price." How much time does it take to make either? How hard is it to wait in anticipation of the finished product?

Can we circumvent the process and make a Zircon? Does it "look like" the real thing? Is it as valuable?

For true love, show me a lifelong commitment through all the pressures of life, and someone else can have all the "pretty, but artifical and created through impatience, baubbles.

Dare I say.....God bless? God gave us marriage...so it is good to honor it regardless.

God bless.

Unfortunately for y'all, I'm back....This damn thread is a compelling read since, as I said before, it parallels my own experience so closely...Even recent events.

You don't know me so your assertion that you don't know anyone that successfully "woo'd back"(your words) their WW without a Plan B is true. However, had you included acquaintances, it would not. I am a member of that very small minority.

OK, a couple of things...JL is right, I believe. Even though DW's EA grew from about a year before the only physical encounter and continued for 9-10 months after D-day, it still took a couple of years before it was completely over in her mind and she could move on.

I'm not going to tell you everything will be OK. I don't know either you or your W. However I will tell you that her reactions and responses to everything so far are identical. I, like you, did not want to give up even though I had many(corresponding to Pep and Susan) here telling me it was time.

I won't go into details as it would probably be boring and it might look like I was just repeating your story, however. Let me just say this. You should definitely continue on the path you are on where you are heading for DV court, but not running or rushing headlong in that direction. Just a moderate, determined pace towards that end. You are giving W a little foreknowledge of what the future might hold and also just a little time to weigh the potential outcomes. And, at the same time, providing yourself some of the protections that Plan B offers.

Don't fool yourself with false hope, but don't give up entirely until DV date(or after depending on your feelings).

Those multiple e-mails were her "testing the waters" after the DV meeting. Can she or can she not continue to manipulate you? is the question she's trying to answer for herself right now. Make sure she always knows you are open to discussion, but determined to end it if there are no changes.

Stay the course here. It's your best shot at coming out of this, married or not, with a whole skin. I also believe it's your best shot at saving this marriage.

I think we should both sneak a little DNA sample of our DWs and have them tested. I swear they're related.

May the very best of fortune come your way...

Wow, look who the cat drug out...............

Hi DeWayne

WAT