Pep:

I agree 100% with you!

(Psst... Between YOU AND ME, I love your directness! )

I LOVE THE FULL PEP!

BUTTER, LISTEN TO HER!!!!!

Your WH is not being loving or repentant!

When he is REALLY wanting reconciliation, he will do anything possible, whatever you reasonably request in order to get back with you. Like the others have said, a NC letter would not be a big deal to him at all if he was serious about this.

B7,

Aside from the blatant selfishness and stupidity of his request to sign away "alimony/support/etc now and in the future,” it is not legally enforceable. You cannot sign away your rights under the law in any circumstance. Period.

No judge in the country would let it stand, especially in community property states.

So take that ridiculous requirement of his off the table now.

You do not need to listen to such drivel.

If anything he should sign a post-A contract agreeing that he give you everything if he breaks NC again or has another A.

Well, I see that you have many more problems than your husband having an affair. I suggest counseling for you - IMMEDIATELY. I cannot believe he has the gall to suggest this.

And I can't believe that you would think that his request is reasonable. I suggest you stay seperated from this bottom dwelling, scum sucking, excuse for a man.

Double dern tootin'.

Don't even THINK of agreeing to any such thing.

Plan B could be in your near future.

But beware of advice that says you should Plan B on a whim.

You can't Plan B until you're physically separated.

The right way to get separated is to have the WS leave the home - voluntarily. You can't make a WS leave unless the correct legal construct is in place or established. Once they leave, you have to prevent them from returning without your approval. This involves either a legal separation or filing for divorce where a legal separation isn't available.

What's your sitch in this regard?

WAT

Hello everyone and thanks again -- you are helping me to keep my head on straight -- I'm a bit frazzled as I just learned of bad news re: OW that my H insists is over (hence all the NC discussion),

Let me just clarify that:
(1) I don't think H's request is fair, or respectful of me as his W and future mother of his children,etc (although he did exclude child support and said if I raised the kids long enough I would get something - whatever);
(2) he meant that his earnings remain his earnings throughout our M, and vice versa (although, as you can guess, I make less than 1/100 of what he makes (no joke)) - so maybe it's not as bad as it sounds?? would it really be thrown out? I thought it was done all the time (think Hollywood pre-nup?? I still don't think it's right/fair); and
(3) I won't sign it (in fact, I doubt we get past NC and the letter, so I'm headed for Plan B/D before I have to seriously face his wrath on this issue).

Questions: Do I expose A again? I think it's going on and he said he has SF w/ her as recently as March. So gross for both of them. If I proceed to D and things get bitter, how do people ever recovery from that? I'm not a bitter/mean person, but H will be furious if he has to pay me a dollar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re Plan B question from WAT: So, I've been in Plan B before and things progressed to filing D, but D not done yet and H keeps putting it on hold. I had to move out (couldn't afford the house and it's a short M, but longer relationship (6yrs/1.5yrs). So, I am separate from him. All that is left to be done is settle property/alimony issues.

More thoughts/advice?

forgot to ask... let's say he drops this "sign away your rights" junk and we are back to NC... this is important because the NC issue will arise first... any thoughts/ suggestions on how I phrased my NC request? (I've said it many times, but this time should be the last)

also, what about exposure of A yet again?

Butterscotch, you sound like you are scared to death of this man -- terrified of standing up to him in any way.

Are you scared he will leave you? Could you support yourself?

Or are you afraid of something else?
Mulan

I apologize for forgetting your details.

Young, short marriage, no kids, physically separated, waffling on no contact.

Plan B.

Let that be your statement on no contact.

WAT

Mulan - I did leave him. I don't know about the rest, but I do know that he works in my same industry and he is a big shot. I'm a bit concerned about what he will do if he doesn't get his way because I need to find a new job as it is.

Every time he brings up the "sign away your life" issue, I just respond saying that if we decide to proceed w/ the D all I would ask for would be a fair settlement. (a mild form of reverse babble)

Any thoughts on my NC request above?

B7: "(2) he meant that his earnings remain his earnings throughout our M, and vice versa (although, as you can guess, I make less than 1/100 of what he makes (no joke)) - so maybe it's not as bad as it sounds?? would it really be thrown out? I thought it was done all the time (think Hollywood pre-nup?? I still don't think it's right/fair..."

Prenups have been explicitly determined to be a valid contract in most states. Not all.

But you are are already married with legally comingled assets, including H's future earnings. You cannot sign away your rights in this.

Thanks WAT - I think you are right. I will ask for NC and a NC letter, and if he refuses, then I Plan B and the D proceeds.

Any thoughts on the way I ask for NC above? I'll repost it below... I'll try to rewrite it a little ...

"H, you told me that your #1 fear was to lose your $, and that you wanted some protection in writing about this fear before we can move forward in recovery. I understand your feelings; I also have fears and, like you, I will need to have my fears addressed in writing before I can move forward in recovery with you. My #1 fear is that you are not serious about us and reconciling our M, and that you will continue to have a relationship with, or at least continue to be in contact with, the OW. If you are serious about reconciling with me, as you say, then you will want to make sure I feel loved by you and safe from the pain of your relationship with OW, and you will do this by ending all contact w/ OW and sending a letter to her. The letter would be a short letter simply stating that there will be no further contact with her ever again for any reason, and you will show me the letter and we will mail it together. The letter will help heal my heart and ease my fears by showing me that from now on you will put what is best for our M above what is best for any one person, and that as my husband, you are more concerned about my feelings as your wife than you are about the feelings of any other woman. It will show me that the mistakes of the past will not be repeated and we can start building an incredibly happy, fulfilling marriage that we both want with each other. I will not be in a relationship or a M where there are any open doors to any third party. If you are unwilling to close those doors and make that closing clear to all parties invovled, then I will have no choice but to remove myself from your life until you are ready and willing to have the type of wonderful M that we both want and deserve. I'm looking forward to a life filled with love, happiness, laughter, passion, acceptance and long conversations until we grow old, our hands still fitting together perfectly to the end, but permanently closing those doors and making that clear to others is the first step. Please let me know if you are ready to do this and start living a happy life with me."

OK, now what? too sappy? maybe I'm just too emotional?
where is karma when you need it?

Thanks for the info Aphelion. We did have joint accounts and bought a house together, etc. I have since moved out (things got really bad).

I will not sign away my rights to anything.

Thanks everyone!

Any comments/suggestions on my NC paragraph above?

B7 -- your pleading letter for him to show you some compassion will be taken by your WH as nothing but "Yeah, she still wants me, she'll wait forever, she'll put up with anything, I've got nothing to worry about."

Then, safely reassured by you, he will go right out and pick up where he left off with OW, secure in the knowledge that no matter what he does you'll still be there when he gets back.

Look at it this way:

Your #1 need is to cared for and loved by your H.

His #1 need is to make sure you don't get his money.

Does that sound like a man who wants to care for you and love you?

You will need some serious backbone if you expect to see *any* change here. Unless you are afraid he will physically hurt you, you have *got* to stop lying down and letting him walk all over you. He will never, ever change as long as you keep trying to appease him. He has not one drop of respect for you. I know you mean well, but nobody respects a doormat -- least of all a WS.

And if you ARE afraid for your safety, you need to get OUT. Right Now.
Mulan

Thanks for the input Mulan. I didn't realize how it sounded pleading. I have rewritten my NC request. I would at least like to communicate this request and be clear. If he cannot meet my NC request, then I proceed to Plan B/D. I will be the darkest of dark Plan B's. I did it before, I'll do it again. Here's my new letter:

"H, you told me that you wanted some assurance, in writing, that your worst fears would not occur and you needed this assurance before we can move forward in recovery. I understand your feelings; I also have fears and, like you, I will need assurance in writing before I can move forward in recovery with you. I need to know that you are serious when you say that you love me, you want us to reconcile our M if at all possible and you are willing to end all contact w/ OW. If we are going to have a great M, then you will have to permanently end your relationship and all contact with OW now by writing a short letter to OW simply stating that you want no further contact with her ever again for any reason, showing me the letter, and mailing the letter together with me. There is no room in a happy M for a third person and I will not be in a M that keeps the doors open to any third party. If you are unwilling to close those doors and make that closing loud & clear to all parties involved, then I will have no choice but to remove myself from your life until you are ready and willing to do this."

I think I'm terrible at this writing stuff. Anyone care to add comments??

Your WH reminds me of an employee we have.

This employee had been reprimanded for showing up smelling of beer one morning (he wasn't drunk, but had gotten drunk the night before and still reeked of beer). About a week later, he showed up for work, drunk. We suspended him without pay for three days (we had warned him of this the first time). At the end of the 2nd day, he called, wanting to know if we would apply his vacation time toward the 3 days. The answer was "No". The afternoon of the 3rd day, he walked into my office and said, "If I come back to work, I want $2 per hour more." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My response was, "Hellooooo? You are SUSPENDED for showing up drunk. We are NOT going to reward you for your behavior."

Needless to say, he was at work, bright and early and sober as a judge, the next morning. He hasn't shown up drunk or smelling like beer since.

Your WH is wanting to be rewarded for returning to you. He wants to call the OW without your listening in (applying "vacation days"). He wants you to sign away your financial rights from your marriage (a $2/hr. raise).

I'm glad you're not going to sign any such agreement. Actually, the fact that he wants you to sign a post-nuptial agreement makes me think that he is NOT committing to you or your marriage. Let's see...he reconciles with you...you sign the agreement...then, it's "Bye-bye, I'm going back to the OW...without having to give you anything!"

I think that instead of what you're planning to say, you should probably say, "WH, I do love you and want us both to have a wonderful marriage. However, since you refuse to write a no-contact letter, plus you want me to sign away my financial rights, I am having difficulty believing in your sincerity. I must protect myself, both emotionally and financially; so, we must remain separated until you are ready to commit to me in every way."

Tell him that it's the letter and full accountability, or no deal.

LC

Yep, I agree with Pep...this agreement smacks of preparing a life with the OW...

Have you exposed the A? Have you had any contact with the OW? I wouldn't recommend it, but I'll bet if you do then she has another story to tell...one in which he is telling her everything will be OK, let this blow over, I'll be with you soon...

Lady C, great story - thanks - I will keep that in mind. The fog is thick in my part of the world. I like the way you said it - thanks.

Yes, the A has been exposed. I was in Plan B before, so I guess this is a false recovery - not uncommon, but so devastating. I doubt he is being honest w/ either one of us, and I'm soooo tempted to call her and send all his love notes, etc, but I can't be bothered - I don't associate with people like her. Besides, if we move to Plan B/D then she'll hear all about it during the D.

I will not sign anything. Even if he is serious about our M and working things out, it shows that he still thinks in terms of "him" and not in terms of "us" -- the same selfish attitude that gave him permission to have an A -- it's the attitude of a WS, not of a good H and a good M partner. It's the same attitude that leaves him with few (any?) real friends and a brother who won't even speak with him. So, if I refuse to sign this, then R/M is over and I move back to Plan B (probably a permanent Plan B and let the D move forward). He will run to OW because his life is empty. He doesn't really love her and he knows it, and I doubt he really respects her, and her idea of loving him is to be able to have his lifestyle (i.e., $$) - so they can continue to fight and cheat on each other.

Hopefully, this works out because I truly love my H, but he is still thinking like a WS and I deserve better. Thanks everyone -- I will keep you posted.

As everyone has said, there is a reason for a letter and that the bs gets to see exactly what is written.
Harley says if the ws had their way in saying goodbye to the op, it would be a week long trip to the Bahamas.

My suggestion would be to contact a lawyer and just get advice about what WH is asking for...is it legal...would it standup...a bit like a post-nup. Be assured WH has probably talked with a lawyer...probably has worked this all out.

Knowledge is power.