For those of you that don't know my story you may want to look up the thread titled Mschluter/Cindy1970 and ready all about us.


This new journal is one I am starting for myself and maybe once Cindy figures out what she wants she will start to post on the joint thread again. I will still post there every now and then.


Today has been a very unsettling day for me and Cindy. She is now going on 3 months of NC and yes I have my doubts like all good BS's do.

I struggle with the thoughts of her and the OM. I also struggle with my own weaknesses and where they have hurt my chances of us going into recovery and saving the Marriage.

Cindy left her Affair almost three months ago and has shown no side of wanting to save the Marriage. She tells me why fix something that was not meant to be fixed. She also tells me she will never love me and that she never has.

She tells me she hates me and that the only reason she stay's is for the children.

Today I'm not having such a good day and most of it is because of how Cindy makes me feel in the aftermath of her Affair.

I feel dirty and cheap and yet I did not have the Affair.

I tell her what I need and she tells me she feels they are expectations of her and that she must want to do them. I know this to be true but does it hurt to at least make an effort.

She is so angry all the time and even the kids can sense it from her.

Hmmmm

Mike, is there anyway for you to know for certain she is not in C? Sorry you are struggling so. {{Michael}}

Mike ... sometime OP is gone physically but still on her mind. Sure Cindy hates you ... you are blocking her happiness w/ OM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> . Aside to make sure there is no contact, you should have acted like in plan A. Patient, Time and Consistent ... one stone at a time until you build a pathway to brige the gap between you two.

Earn your way out of this M ... if Cindy won't want to save M then both of you need to sit down like adults and get Dv. You shouldn't stay. I could tell you YOUR KIDS DON'T WANT TO BE THE REASON OF UNHAPPINESS OF EITHER OF YOU.

-rh-

Mike,

She is doing EXACTLY what mine did. No contact, but not really a wife either. Mine fell of the wagon.

There is no honor in stooping to her level, or lashing out, or love busting. You will make those mistakes. I did. But you must PRESERVE your integrity and do the best you can.

What does that mean?

That means when you are with her, you keep your promise, and your vows, REGARDLESS of what she does. Plan A.

When it gets to much, Plan B. You were not created to live a life of pain. Only you can tell when that happens. But don't waffle. It is not fair to her. And frankly, not right.

My advice - continue your A, prepare your B. Going dark is most effective when it is decisive. It is a black out, not a fade out.

NCWalker

NC Walker:

Thank you for posting on my Journal. Cindy is finding it very hard to be a wife but seems to be getting better at being the Mom the kids need. Sometimes I wonder if my boundries are to much to expect from her this early on in the game.


1) Zero contact (If contact is made she is removed from the home) No if's and's or But's about it.

2) No More lies (This also will result in her removal from the home)

All I want from Cindy is honesty and I know I should not expect this from someone who has done the things she has done but it would be nice.

She wants me to have the CPS vindictation lifted, I'm told by the MC that this is a love buster and that as long as this hangs over Cindy's head she will never be able to love me.

P.I wants to start watching her again for a few months because he does not want me to get fracked over by Cindy and her Family.

Today I came home from work and was not in a bad mood just a little tired from a hard day's work. <---- Something new (LOL) and she told me in a nice way that the way I was acting made her feel like she did something wrong. I told her no just tired and had some things on my mind. (New House, Bills, Kids, Marriage, MC, MB, Job) the usual.

She has been acting very strange the last couple of days since my return to work. My boss gave me two weeks off to get my M in order and figure things out, and they paid me for this two week leave. So I return back to work and Cindy is acting very strange.

Today she called me on my cell phone at 9:25am to tell me she was awake and that I could call her and yet when I left for work she made it clear not to call her because she would be sleeping, Cindy Never calls me and I mean never. It almost felt like she was calling to say " Hey i'm off the phone now so call or Hey I am home now"

I still have a tap on the home phone and can easily find out if she has made any calls in the last 60 days.

I can't tell if she has found a new way to make contact. All I can do is wait to see what P.I say's or wait for her to make a mistake.

Ok...

She wants to give the M a shot and is willing to be more thoughtful of my needs and my moods. Cool right...maybe

I told her ok and this is what I also told her, tell me if I am out of line.


Mike: Ok Cindy we can do this, Are you Sure?

Cindy: Yes and I will try to be more thoughtful and fullfill your needs more and be understanding to your moods.

Mike: If we do this I need you to understand that I will not except any contact with OM and if you do then all bets are off, OK?

Cindy: Then I have nothing to worry about because it really has been 3 months since I talked to him last and it really is over with us, How can I make you understand that?

Mike: Maybe by being more honest and not always going back and forth about wanting the M and then the next day not wanting the M.

Cindy: well you don't make it easy for me, you always have a snide remark about OM and me and I get tired of hearing it.

Mike: Very well I will not make any more remarks and in return I will not question you on wether or not you have talked to him or had contact.

Mike: Cindy I need you to understand something first, If you break any of these boundries or you do anything to hurt the kids all bets are off and I will make sure that you and OM pay the price for hurting my kids once again. You claim that your A was a mistake you regret well maybe so, but if you make any contact with OM from here on out I will take it as not a mistake but deliberate hurt on my children and I will go out of my way to make sure you and OM pay. IS this understood?

Cindy: Yes and I you have nothing to worry about because it is over and I really have had no Contact.

Cindy: Will you ever trust me again?

Mike: I don't know but I am willing to try.


Thats the basics of our conversation three days ago.

any thoughts...

Life has got to get better.

Michael,

I think you handled the sitch beautifully. Just a thought -- maybe she didn't want you to call her b/c she'd get "grumpy" if you woke her up? Seems like she was making an effort at keeping in touch w/you. If you want, you can check the tap to see if any activity has been going on. Then you'll know if her efforts are sincere or not.

I love the fact that you were completely honest w/her & told her, I don't know.

Let's pray that the sitch continues to move 4ward from here. Still not sure if you should lift the CPS order or not. Can you put it back in place if she indeed has contact again? How hard would that be?

BIG RED FLAG FOR ME....Keep the alerts up. DO NOT UNDER ANY circumstances life the CPS order. Your WW is not to be trusted for now. You should NOT in any way, shape, or form risk your children's safety in the hopes of making your WW feel more comfortable.

I am worried for your brother. I don't like the smell of all of this. You were sure she was in NC when you were doing that countdown daily some months again and she was seeing the OM...and now you go and move a few houses away from him>??????????? <shaking head>, you can't possibly believe this is a good idea. YOu are asking a "on the wagon alcoholic" to go work next to a bar every day.

I hate to be the ever pessimist, but this is shaping up to be another car crash. I hope I am wrong buddy. I really do.

LM

Michael, she probably reads here, and therefore knows about all the ways you're keeping tabs on her.

Now. Knowing how closely she's being watched... I reckon that's a huge obstacle keeping her from working on things with you.

It's too bad she doesn't ask you to keep close tabs on her. That would be the sign of someone truly wanting to make amends... someone with real compassion for you and your children.

She seems more like a child who's angry over her punishment than a grownup who wants to be courageous and make things right. To hear you tell it, she's just all "poor me, I'm a prisoner."

But I expect she would describe things differently.

Michael, knock off the nasty remarks about her and OM, really. You can control your tongue, for heaven's sake.

Know what I think is keeping her from being able to feel for you? Her refusal to be giving toward you. No phone calls, no nothing. Just the old, "I'm here, aren't I?" Well, that doesn't cut it.

Keep us posted, and encourage Cindy to come back here. She knows she'll find people who are sympathetic.

GC

I'm going to answer each and everyone one of you tonight because I need this more then anything right now.


Sorry for the long post but hopefully it will help you help me.


StandingTogether Asked:




I think I need to make it clear that it was me who gave CPS the things they needed to convict Cindy on her charges. I with my attorney and P.I and a good friend went with me to the main CPS office where I was questioned and in turn gave them a video showing Cindy having sex with OM and an hours worth of conversation on Cd-Rom. This new evidence infuriated the CPS people that she could so easily look the other way when they warned her to have no contact with OM.

So to answer your question, Yes it can be removed but in doing so it would also put me at risk with CPS because I would be going back on my word with them and if she makes another mistake they could come after me for protecting her.


And yes I can have CPS back on Cindy in no time at all if she were to have contact with OM.

My Attorney has another tape showing her fooling around with OM while are 5 yr old slept in the car that she left him him to be with Om for 45 minutes. She also knows that if she screws me over this time I will turn that tape over to the Authorities and her and OM will be charged with Endangering the welfare of a child. This is a felony in New York and has no time limit. Because I can say I was just given the tape. Cindy also knows about this tape.


lemonman Asked:




I am so Happy to see your post, How are you?


Your right and everything you wrote above is true. I do feel sick in doing this but I have already closed on the home. I can only hope that Cindy is true to her words and understands that screwing me over means she has hurt the children and that I will not rest until I see her and the Om incarerated for there wrond doings and I know for a fact CPS will take legal actions against Cindy like never before. So Maybe she does realize she has something to lose after all....Her Dignity




Thank God for Airbags and SeatBelts....Because I feel strongly that I will walk away from this car crash without a scratch...And thank you for your concern, It means a lot.


graycloud asked:




Glad to see your still posting on my threads, I always respected your point of view and miss some of are talks.


In Answer to your question...

Good I hope she does, But the sad thing is Cindy does not care nor does she believe it all. She thinks I found out everything on my own and she did Find a tap that I had put on the phone..These things are crap if you have DSL...It screws them up big time..She found the device and destroyed it...So P.I had his tap anyway...




Tell me one time she did?





Yeah and i'm on Santa's good list...Cindy just does not care until it effects her. and even then she does not care. She could easily walk out on the kids and not lose a nights sleep...




I agree....I will go into this question more at the bottom of this post.





I'm sure she could and one day will.





Easier said then done but have been doing pretty good the last six days. Keeping my thoughts and concerns to myself as well. No point in bringing up any concerns I have because if I am on mark she will only Lie to cover it up.




Your right on the Money with this one. I'll go into this question more as well on the bottom of this post.



Will Do and maybe one day she will when the pity party gets out and the drunks wake up.





Ok I have answered all the questions. Now above some good questions were asked and I will try to explain it the best I can coming from the BS and all.


These are the things and not in order that I hear on a regular basis from Cindy.


1) I don't want this Marriage

2) I never will Love you, But tells me she loves me every night before bed, she say's this is a diffrent type of love..Brotherly I guess.

3) She never wanted this Marriage in the first place and got trapped by getting Pregnant.

4) She hates me

5) wishes I would Die

6) She is a prisoner in this house because if she messes up I will turn her in again and give the tape to the cops or CPS.

7) She is only hear for the kids.

8) She will leave when I least expect it.

9) I will make you all happy and kill myself. She has even siad this in front of the kids.

10) I still have feelings for OM

11) Your the worst thing that has ever happened to me.

12) your a loser

13) Your a lousy father

14) your a bum


and as I can surly name more I will only say this, Cindy makes it clear on most bad days that she is not here of her own free will...she lets everyone know she is a prisoner in her own home.



So feel free people, I'm an open book ask away and I will make sure you get the best answer that comes from my heart.

Michael,

I'll have to go w/graycloud on this one. I do believe that Cindy is suffering from something. I don't even think she realizes it. These mood swings, the blame spewing forth from her mouth, talking about suicide in front of her children??? There's only so much you can attribute to fog.

Let me see if I get this straight -- As long as the CPS order's in place, if she has contact w/the OM, you can notify them & they'll handle. If the order is lifted & she then has contact, you will be in trouble for lifting it? I would think that if you discover contact after the order is lifted, you can go back to CPS & tell them what you've found & to put the order back in place again. Am I missing something? I don't think I understand.

This caught my eye -

My Attorney has another tape showing her fooling around with OM while are 5 yr old slept in the car that she left him him to be with Om for 45 minutes. She also knows that if she screws me over this time I will turn that tape over to the Authorities and her and OM will be charged with Endangering the welfare of a child. This is a felony in New York and has no time limit. Because I can say I was just given the tape. Cindy also knows about this tape.

Now I think we get why Cindy feels trapped. You're blackmailing her. This is how she sees it, I'm sure. If she has contact, there goes the tape to CPS. So, what does she do? She is "forced" to stay, in her opinion. What happens if she leaves? Sued for abandonment of her family. Kind of a catch-22 for her wouldn't you think?

Just trying to understand Cindy's mind a little bit. Although, she's VERY confusing! I can see your frustration!

That's kind of what I thought too...

MS, I certainly don't condone Cindy's behaviour. And here in my home, I'm living with a woman who is very clear in that she doesn't want to be my wife. So I really, really understand how you are feeling... but you gotta ease up a bit. The only way she's gonna come back to you is if she wants to, and if your tones and attitudes are the same at home as they are here in your thread, you are certainly not making it any easier for her.

Please understand, I'm not saying you don't have any right to feel the way you do, or even say the things you're saying... I'm just trying to get you to ask yourself if you really think it will make things any better...

Oh yeah... one more thing... what in the world is CPS? For a bit there, I thought you were talking about the Canadian Postal Service...

dewt

Hey Mike

I have followed this train wreck of yours for a while but that doesn;t mean I have anythibg useful to say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> your sit is beyond my experience , other than generally.

But what I WILL say is that Cindy has a point that she is with you under duress. That tape, as other smart folks have said here, is a resentful chain keeping her in the kennel.

Just after my exposure with proof, Squid was unbelievably spiteful. Thats documented somehwre. Really spiteful, and vindictive to me and was hurting the kids.

It was around then that I let her go. I realised that i COULD chain her to me, but how would that help withe rmy life, my self esteem or our kids ?

After some dreadful spiteful thing or other I took Squid aside and said "Squid, why are you here ?"
"to work on our joke of a marrige !" she spat.
"Look, i won't chain you here. I want you to be here because I still love you and I want to work on our marriage, but I will not imprison you. If you want to go, then go but do so intelligently and tell the kids the truth. If you want to stay, then at least behave in a way that supports the recovery of our marriage as long as you can. I want you back, baby, but I don't need you."

She went quiet and left for a karate lesson.

I put the kids to bed and watched TV.

When Squid returned later she asked if I wanted a glass of wine, sat down and talked to me over the trivia of her day. Clumsily, but she started. It was the first civil conversation from her in months.

Our recovery started properly that night.

Mike, if my amateur advice is worth anything, I say that you will NOT recover while Cindy is righteously indignant at being effectively blackmailed into your marriage. Just think of teh dynamics in effect: would YOU be happy to be kept in a loving prison by your guilt and fear of exposure to the authorities ?

Can you imagine ANY situation where that may work ?

I think you have to let her go, Mike. Plan A your buns off and let her go. I see the current sit as toxic.

All blessings Mike.

Alright,

I can see where it may come across that I am blackmailing Cindy into staying but in all honesty I have given her many chances to walk out and if you have been following this train wreck you will have remembered that Cindy has left on her own three times and once on my asking. I have had this tape as well as many more that could be used against Cindy if I really wanted to.


CPS ( Child Protective Services ) for those that don't know.

Because of Cindy's actions she has out herself in harms way with these people and because of her actions she lost all custody of the children.

I would love for Cindy to say " Hey Michael I know it won't be easy but I really do want to be here and work on this Marriage " But Cindy finds it hard to give and I find it hard to trust. Not a very good mix.


I will take what some of you have mentioned and start to relax a little. It does have to start somewhere.

I have told Cindy if she really wants to leave then she should because all she is doing is going to make me unhappy and the kids. But this time ( #190,000,657 ) She says she really does want to save the Marriage and see where we can take it.

So the real question is ? what makes this time the real deal?

I have never looked at Cindy and said if you walk I will see you rot in jail.

I have told her if she has any contact with OM I will do nothing to help her with CPS it's her bed, she messed it now she would have to sleep in it.

And if Cindy should leave, The kids have told her straight out .. That they never want to see her again and that she needs to stay away from them.

her A killed these kids but what killed them more was her constant walking out on them and going right to the om everytime.

the last time she walked she called om to take her to her Dads....

So please feel free to cut loose with the 2x4's

I may need it

Blackmail is an ugly word... And I have never done that to her.

But there is consequnces to any action she takes that may hurt the children.

I do feel for you, MS. I really do. It's a dreadfully sad situation.

I agree that Cindy should feel that she is free to leave if she wants to. Any spouse should feel this way, simply because no one should be forced into being married. Yet if Cindy leaves, she will lose her children, because (I guess) if she leaves she will be leaving for an OM.

So -- how can Cindy be made to feel free to leave the marriage if she wants to, without losing her children?

What if you had a legal separation agreement drawn up, with everything in place except the signatures. Then make sure she has enough money in her own account to get her own place, live for a few months, etc.

Then, if she really and truly does want to leave, all she has to do is sign the legal separation agreement and she is free to go and start her life over. No CPS involvement. Your marriage would be over, but what do you have now?

This is radical, I know. But I don't see that this marriage will ever recover as long as one partner feels forced to choose between the marriage and her children.

It's just an idea. Maybe some variation of it would work for you. But you've got to open the door for her somehow, or her resentment (justified or not) will never end.
Mulan

Hi, Mschluter.

I suggest that you put your evidence of her activities that are pertinent to the children's welfare, on file with your lawyer for safe keeping. Leave it there until she has established that she can be trusted with the children. I would think that a minimum of two years would be in order.

That is not blackmail. That is seeing to the safety and concerns of your children. They are your primary responsibility. In this case, they come before you or Cindy.

Open the door for her to leave. You keep the kids.

If she wants to stay, then you do your part in recovering your marriage. That means that you give it a one hundred percent effort. No controlling behavior, no threats, you treat your wife with proper respect.

If she or you decide that you just can't do it, then she leaves. You stay and keep the children.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh. The deal is simple. Anyone that recklessly puts a child in danger has no business as primary parent. As the responsible parent, you must keep your information.

If Cindy can work on the marriage knowing that you are not trying to blackmail, but rather be a good father and protect your children, then that is good. If she can't face the reality of how she endangered them, or she refuses to acknowledge that fact, then I question whether you should attempt recovery at all.

All the best,
Gimble

Yeah, what Gimble said. Thats what I was trying to say but far better articulated. Protect your kids and yourself but let Cindy go if she wants. You cannot MAKE her want to be a wife and mother.

All blessings mike

Update:

Closed on the new house and mOved in this weekend..

Mike

SO WHAT IS NEW WITH YOUR WAYWARD WIFE? IS IT SSDD STILL WITH YOU and HER? GIVE US AN UPDATE.

Thanks

LM

I'm with LM on this one. How about an update Mike?

Remember that it is about the choices the two of you make. While affected by one another, only the one making the choice bears responsibility.

Means that her choice is not your fault. So no beating yourself up about your character and worth. Examine it. Learn from the experience, grow yourself, and be the best Mike you can be. But don't second guess her decisions. That is purely garbage to bring you down.

NCW

Ok.. I will give an update.



As of Saturday June 18th we moved into the new house, Which by the way is right down the road (Literally) from the OM.

Cindy swears it is over and is trying to recover my trust and vice versa.

The kids love the new house and I love my job. I'm actually up for a promotion in September or late October which could mean double my current salary.

I still have my bad day's but not nearly as much as I used to. I feel that if Cindy is going to continue messing up and seeing the OM then there really is nothing I can.

But as of right now i'm taking her word for it that it really is over and that she is now on four months with NC.

She claims that she really does not even think of him but yet still has strong feelings for him.????? Don't really get this one.

She also told me that she does not think it possible to fall in love with me and that she is here for the kids.

A couple weeks ago I asked her if she had a choice between me and the kids and om who would she choose and she made it clear that she would not leave her kids for Om but if it were just us she would choose OM.

I advise all of you not to ask this question because it hurts to hear the answer.

Cindy witll either stay faithful and find an us in this Marriage or she will contact om and lose all of it. There really is not much else I can do.

I try to fill her needs when she lets me. I try to have more us time when she allows for it. I try to communicate with her but if it's something she does not want to hear she gets very very very defensive.

The old house is still up for sale and I have some work to do on it. the new house is Beautiful. I will take some pics and post them some how on here.

2000 square feet of perfection minus the flaw to my left as I type -- OM's employment up the street... LOL

I don't worry as much as I thought I would because I really do feel I am doing everything I can and it really does come down to her choice.

More to come...................