The one thing that I am the most confused about, what I don't understand, is why I don't know what I would do if she came knocking on the door tomorrow. I just don't know if I could tell her no. It's tearing me to pieces. A part of me wants to say that she can't come back & another says I want her back. I feel that I'd want to trust her as I did before, but then I think of what she's done and wonder why I would want to trust her. I just can't figure out my feelings, I don't understand so many things right now. I am so tired of these feelings, tired of not understanding, tired of everything.

P.S.- Could someone please tell me what all the abbreviations mean that I keep seeing? The DD's, WW's, BW's, etc.

Why not go into Plan B like Carguy1 [AlanK] did?


DD = Dear Daughter[s]
DS = Dear Son[s]
OC = Other Child [child born out of the affair]

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse

BW = Betrayed Wife
BH = Betrayed Husband
BS = Betrayed Spouse

OW = Other Woman
OM = Other Man
OP = Other Person

D-day = Discovery Day

LB = Love Busters

EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair

James..

First, let me say - this all stinks. It's horrible, and no one should have to go through it.

I don't know if it helps you to know others have gone through the same thing, but it did me when I was where you are. Not because I wanted to see others suffer, but because it helped me not feel so ashamed and embarrassed.

I was in almost your exact situation, minus the kids. My now-XH told me about his A in November of 2002. He walked out on me to be with her at the end of January 2003. He called two days later wanting to come home. I told him he couldn't come home, but I wanted to work on the marriage, and that we could go to counseling and try and work things out, but he couldn't continue to live with her if we were going to do that. I found places for him to live.

He refused to stay where I found for him (with a male friend of ours from church, or back at his parents'.) He told me he was living with a male friend of his that I knew while we went to counseling. We did this for about 2 1/2 months. He told both me and the counselor (a minister from our church who also has counselor training) that he was living with this male friend, and that he was really trying.

Things ended because I found that he had NEVER quit living with her, even though he was the one who had called me wanting to come back. And it wasn't just to come home - I think that first day he called, they had probably fought and she had kicked him out for a couple of days, but that doesn't explain why he kept up the charade for so long.

I still to this day do not understand why he would bother going to counseling with me while still living with her, when I had made it clear that he had to make a choice, and if I found out he was seeing her again, that I would end things, and that it probably wouldn't be pleasant. It would have been easier for me if he had just said straight out that he was back with her, and ended things then.

I don't know why they do this stuff. He even wrote me a real sappy poem for Valentine's day/my birthday that year, about how he wished he could take back all the hurt. But he was living with her. What is that?

At any rate, mid-April of 2003 is when I said we were done, because I found out he was still living with her. The divorce didn't go through until July 2004. In between, I was a real mess for quite a while. But I can tell you, I am now feeling better than I had for a long time. I can still remember the way I felt when I was where you are. It feels like the world should stop, because you can't imagine life going on from there. You don't want to see anyone, especially not anyone that knows both of you. You can't imagine life going on, and in some ways, you don't really want it to.

The blessing that I had was that we had no kids to drag through the big mess - our divorce was a rough one. But your blessing - you have those kids to live for. It may be hard to get through this, but you have some very good reasons to.

And I know what you mean about not knowing if you would take her back or not if she showed up. I realized the day after my XH walked out that I had that problem. I am so glad I realized it quickly - since it only took him two days to call, I needed to! I thought about it that day, and realized that if I waited until he called or showed up to decide what I would do, it was highly unlikely I would do the right things. Emotion would take over, and I knew he would be able to talk me into whatever he wanted.

Even though you are very emotional right now, the best thing you can do for yourself is decide how to handle things, and then stick to it. Decide what, if any, terms she must meet for you to agree to work on the marriage with her if she shows up. And then the important thing - stick to it. Make up your mind to stick to it no matter what your emotions tell you.

I did all this before I found MB, but I see now that I really did pretty much follow plan A/plan B. My plan A was short, since he walked out about 2 months after DDay. But once he started living with her, plan B was the right thing to do. And part of plan B is setting the boundaries and making the conditions that must be met before plan B will end. And then sticking to them no matter how she might try to convince you otherwise, and no matter how much your heart hurts and tells you to go beg her.

You can do this, and whatever happens, you can come through it stronger than ever. It is going to hurt a lot in the meantime though, and working through it, plus time, is the only way to get there.

I know I would never have believed someone if they had told me I would be this happy with myself less than a year after the divorce. I still have rough days, but they are now pretty few and far between.

One last thing - I don't remember if you said anything about being in counseling yourself, but you might want to try it if you aren't. And if you have a really good friend you know you can let it all out to, do so. Talking about it, over and over, helps. And talking to a counselor who can help you figure out your part in the marriage problems, as well as to internalize that the affair, her lying, and the destruction of it all is NOT your fault, helps even more.

Be strong James - and take comfort in the fact that all of us here sympathize and empathize with you, and that you have a whole community of prople here to talk to who do understand.

Thank you "Penguin," thank you very much! What you said means a great deal to me. One thing that doesn't help me is that I have no real close friends to talk to, that was one of the reasons I looked here. If I didn't find this site and start letting it out when I did, I'm not sure what state I'd be in today. This does help, not being so alone through all of this. Thank you all...

Argh! I just wrote a long message on here, only to accidentally wipe it out.

And I don't really have time to recreate it right now.

So, the short version is this - glad this place helps, and keep on letting it help. That's why it's here, and why people tend to stick around even after they get divorced, like me.

I understand how obsessive the mind can get on the "why?" and "how could he/she?" questions. That was all I could think about for the first few months. I had trouble getting anything done at work or at home. No matter what I did, my mind came back to the questions. The best thing you can do for yourself is work on pushing those questions back out of your mind. You will likely never get a satisfactory answer to them, even if the two of you eventually reconcile. And even if you could get an answer, it isn't anything that would help you really.

If you have trouble with that (stopping the obsessing over it,) do think about going on ADs for a little while. I know some people on here don't agree with taking them for this, but I think whether or not you should depends on how your body reacts to them. For the people that found ADs covered things up, or they had unpleasant reactions to them, they shouldn't take them. For me, though, I found they didn't keep me from feeling the pain, or from having to go through the normal emotions and work through it all to get myself to a healthy emotional state again. For me, all they did was take the edge off of it. I can be obsessive when I have a problem to solve. That's great when I'm working on a computer issue, and need to find an answer. Not so great when I'm obsessing on questions that really have no answer, and on a problem I can't really solve. The ADs made it so I could push it to the back of my mind when I needed to so I could function in my everyday life.

Finally - whatever you do, don't ask HER those questions. Why? Not only is it pointless, but it can actually be detrimental. It makes you come across as clingy, needy, and weak. It ends up making you less attractive to the WS. The best thing you can do is work on yourself, work on building a good life for you and your kids that doesn't depend on her, and making sure all she sees when you do have to interact with her is a man who has decided to take charge of his life and make the best of the circumstances. Who is capable of moving on, and who doesn't need her. It's ironic - doing this best prepares you for life without her, but it's also something that usually ends up drawing the WS back to you - as long as you are really doing it, working on moving on, and not just trying to give her the appearance that you are in hopes of drawing her back.

And either way, it will help you. You will be well prepared and ready to have a good life if the two of you don't reconcile, and if you do - it makes you more attractive to her, and at the same time may make her less likely to stray, because she will then know that you don't need to and probably won't sit around waiting for her to come to her senses.

I hope this helps.... Let us know how you are doing, and where things are going!

What if she ends up wanting to come back? I mean , I still love her, but how could I ever trust her? Everything I thought we had that was special and meant something has been replaced by another man? When will that quit making me so sick to my stomach? How can I stop myself from thinking of that every time I look at an old photograph of us, or when we talk or see one another? I feel so violated, used, made a fool of and weak. Should I just forget about reconciliation and try to move on? I am still so confused about everything. I mean, God knows that I love her, but will that love be enough to get over the hurting? Will I ever be able to just get over it and think of her as I used to, as the woman I married?

Ok, let's see if I can take these a few at a time...


Well, this will depend on you and your state of mind at the time she tries to come back. And it's likely she will, at some point. The WS usually does a lot of back and forth. In my case, I knew he would try to come back, because the note he left me when he walked out said in three different places that he didn't really know if it was really over between us, but he just had to be with her to find out. Sheesh! That's why I decided a course of action before the question came up, before he called trying to come home. It's a lot easier to make boundaries ahead of time, and then when things get emotional, stick to them. So, you need to decide - under what circumstances WOULD you be willing to take her back? You can re-evaluate that as time goes on. But it's good to decide this ahead of time. Then when/if she wants to come home, you can lay out a clear plan for her to get there... or make it clear to her that that is no longer possible, if you get to that point.

In my case, I decided that we could work towards reconciliation, but that we would HAVE to go to marriage counseling, and that he would not be moving home for at least a year after he asked to come home, and that he, of course, couldn't continue living with OW either. I needed this time, because I know how much he would manipulate me into trying to let him come home immediately, without him having to make any real changes. And that if I let him come home immediately, he would figure he could just wait until my guard was down, and do the same thing all over again. I wanted the time and the space to see if he was really capable of real change, and was able to truly call off the A and dedicate himself to our marriage. I needed to see real change before I let him come home, and knew that he would be able to manipulate me emotionally if I did let him come home without seeing the change first. When I found out he had been lying and continuing to live with her while going to counseling with me, that answered the question for me. I made it clear that that was a boundary for me - that if he left her, claiming to want to come home, and then went back, our marriage would be through. Once he crossed that boundary, I was done.


First of all, you really can't completely trust her. That's a mistake I made in our marriage; I trusted him completely and blindly. Now you've learned that you can't afford to trust completely. So, if she wants to come back, and you decide to let her, you shouldn't eve go back to completely trusting her.

Which is where the next part comes in. Married people should have no secrets from each other. One way you'll be able to start trusting her somewhat (but never completely - you should always see the actions to back up that trust!) is by her being willing to let you see everything. If she let's you read her e-mail and have passwords to all her accounts, if she can account for where she is at all times, and can accept you questioning her on it. I think most people on here would tell you - they knew recovery was real when their spouse was repenetant and didn't get mad at being questioned. It's when they get mad at being questioned that you have to ask - what do they have to hide?


This is the tough part. The first question you have to answer is whether you should try to reconcile or move on. No one can answer this for you. You just need to examine your heart and be honest with yourself. Ask yourself this - if she came back today, and you had a guarantee she was being honest and had completely cut off contact with OM, would you want to reconcile? Under those circumstances, would you be able to forgive what she did, and not keep letting it hurt you again. If you can't do this, it will just be a wedge between you that you won't be able to get past.

You probably won't ever see her quite the same way again - but that is good. Because you won't see her as someone you can trust blindly. Most people who get through this and do recover say that the relationship is better than ever - better than they ever thought it could be. But this only applies if you can let go of it.

The good news is - yes, you can get past it, if you really want to. And that's whether or not the two of you get back together. But it is going to hurt a lot in the meantime. There's no magic cure, it just takes time.

Basically, the way to handle this IS to move on. But "moving on" doesn't mean finding someone else immediately. It means working on yourself. If you do that, you'll be prepared to live on your own and handle things if she never comes back, or if you decide you don't want her back. It also ends up making you more attractive to the WS in most cases.

And it's important to remember - moving on is NOT dating and trying to find someone else immediately. It's working on being happy with yourself, working on being able to be alone and still be satisfied with life. It gets said over and over on these boards, but it bears repeating: don't date before you're divorced, and give yourself time to heal before you even think about getting involved again. This helps you not end up in the same situation again hopefully. Plus, if you get involved with someone so soon, it greatly complicates things if she does want to come home.

So.... work on yourself. Decide under what circumstances you would be willing to let her come back. Don't compromise on those boundaries you set. Eventually, you will know whether you can get past it or not.

I would highly recommend finding someone (male!) to help you get to this point. Going to individual counseling, if you can find a good counselor, would be a good idea. Or even just a good friend, if you have one that can be a positive influence by helping you get out, do things, and work on being a better person. You need support right now. Coming to this board is good, but it can't compare to getting support live and in-person.

Have you tried to find a counselor? A good marriage counselor - one that believes in recomciliation when possible - would be best, even if you would be going alone. Someone like that would be able to help you work through those feelings and figure out whether or not you will be able to reconcile if she decides she wants to.

I put this in a separate post, because the previous one was getting kind of long, and I didn't want this part to get lost in it....

I have a couple of assignments for you. First, look at the library here on MB, pick out a book that looks like it might help you, get it, and start reading. I will admit to not having read the particular books in this library, but I have read most of the kinds of information in them from other sources. Based on what I've read about these books and what you've said here, I would recommend "Surviving an Affair" and "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders."

Second, at least look into some counseling. Do you attend church? If so, talk with the minister and see if he can point you in the right direction. Or set up a phone session with one of the counselors here on MB. Getting some help from someone trained in this kind of stuff is invaluable. And if you try one and they don't seem to really be helping you, don't be afraid to look for another.

Third - you need some accountability on these things. In my church, we have a men's support group and a women's support group, and that's exactly the purpose: to help people have accountability, someone who will be asking why you haven't done these things if you don't do them. You can get accountability from a support group, or from a good friend, as long as they are the kind of friend that will hold you accountable! And in the same spirit.... come back and tell us here how you are doing. And WHAT you are doing. Tell us which book you are reading, and ask questions about it. Tell us when you find a counselor, and get opinions on the kinds of advice you are getting from the counselor. Tell us what you are doing with the kids to help them through this, and what you are doing with yourself to keep you sane. A lot of people recommend exercise. Getting involved in your hobbies again, or finding new hobbies, can help too.

This is hard, and you are going to have a lot of heartache through it. But asking the same "why" questions over and over won't help, especially since they don't really have any answers. So, tell us what you are doing with yourself - and make yourself have something to tell us!

Ok, you have your assignment! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I talked to my wife for a few minutes today... she said to fill out the divorce papers. I don't know if I can. I don't know if I can do anything now. It just hurts... and I love her so much. I can't believe it, that this is what she'd choose. God help me... I'm not his strong, I can't handle this... not at all. Why did he let this happen? Why do I deserve this? What the hell did I do?!? I want my life back, my family...

I really really feel for you - been there done that. I DO know how if feels. The thing is, you can't control what another person does. You can handle what you have to - trust me, you'll survive it. God will give you only what you can handle even though it doesn't seem like it, and He will help you cope.

You might not deserve it, and you might not have done anything wrong. But you also may not be able to have your life back. I really hate to say it, but I think you are going to have to be prepared to move on. There are things you can do to try and win her back, but part of you needs to take care of yourself as if she wasn't coming back.

(((((((((James))))))))))

Tomorrow I'll find someone to talk to, someone that can help. I really don't believe I can cope, not by myself anyway. I just wish I knew why. After everything, all we've been through, why does it have to come to this? What did, or didn't, I do to have it come to this? I just don't understand anything, not anymore.