I'm sorry Crazed, but your H also knows how babies are made. He was just as much of a willing particapant as she was. If he really didn't want to take the chance at having another child, then he should of kept Mr.happy in his pants. He knew the risk of having unproteced sex.

I'm so sick of hearing how the OW is all at fault. It takes two to make a baby. Your H is just as much respinsible for that child as she is. Even if it means just finacially.

My H has a child with his Xow. Even though she claimed to NOT be able to get pregnant, she did. She knew he was married and had 3 kids. My stepson is now 6. She has done all the wonderful, you can't see him cause you are with your W, if you want to see him you have to come to my home, right done to teasing him on her new H adopting him. I feel my H helped create this child, it is his duty to help support him, no matter who or what the mother is

I just wanted to add this. Ow isn't innocet. She is to blame right along with your H. They BOTH knew what they were doing was wrong.

You on the other are innocent. So are your children. And as much as you want to believe other wise, so is the OC. That innocent baby didn't have a say on who her parents are or how she was conceived/brought into this world.

I know how hard it is to deal with an OC. The emotions that go with all the crap. But no matter what, that child is innocent........ She deserves a chance at life.

jph I guess you feel your a saint. I on the other hand am not. If this was done to you then why do you feel for OW? Also I'm kinda sick of you calling my h a loser. Where's your compassion for his mistake. You don't sound as if you hold any compassion for the H's only the OW. Like the ho's were just so sweet and innocent and the loser H's were the evil ones. As far as not knowing much about life at 19 I beg to differ. I just found out that little tramp was meeting him at rest stops to just f*&%. Even taking it up the wazoo. Yeh she sounds innocent to me. As far as dealing with her. Nope just not my problem. He screwed her not me. As far as the little sin goes not my problem either. And sorry a sperm donation does not a father make. If I stay with him then he will have nc. But if he chooses c then I'm out of here. It's us or them. Plain and simple. I still don't see how I'm teaching my children bad things out of life? I am not teaching them that it is okay to cheat on your wife and then have her help raise the baby. My children know nothing of this and if I have anything to do with it they never will. And no he wasn't a participant of making babies. He was a participant of getting screwed. I don't think any man spoken about on this site was wanting a baby from the OW and I don't see how you or anyone else don't see how they were played as well. How do you feel sorry for these OW? Maybe you are one. You know takes one to know one. I bet your one of those people who would sue the tobacco companies for getting cancer after 10 packs a day for 10 years. Oh yeah and the virgins father is also a preacher. Your right I guess she just was young and dumb and had never been taught the rights and wrongs of life. She must have missed the day they covered adultry in church. And screwing without wedlock, she missed that day to. But my loser H who was sexually molested as a child by a parent and has a sexual addiction doesn't deserve any compassion. Only the ho in your book huh?
And tryingtomakeitwork thanks for the support. At least you are someone who dosen't think I'm awful. Of course if I keep ranting like this post you may change your mind about me.

[color:"blue"] whoa...let's all take a deep breath here.

Crazed momma, I am so sorry you are in this situation.

My H says XOW was a 'virgin' too...whatever. We all were once hanh? so what?

It is SO shocking to be in this situation.

I was 19 when H & I had our first child..I knew eXACTLY what I was doing & understood COMPLETELY the choices I made.

There is no excuse for that.

You are not a bad person for NOT wanting to deal w/ this.
I think it is VERY smart to get yrou CS set up first. OW is doing what she needs to do to protect hers & you should too. THe law will NOT automatically look ouot for yoru chidlren..ONLY you will so you have to do what you must do.

You have to make the system work for you.

You are right to be upfront about what you think & feel...no surprises for H down the road. You don't want to deal w/ OW & OC fine....his choice of what he wants & how HE wants to deal w/ it.

You don't have to defend yourself here, even if it feels like you do.

Sure OC is innocent , no disputing that BUT so are your children & you have every right to protect them in whatever way you feel is necessary & in their best interests.

You also have a right to choose hwo YOU want to deal w/ this & IF you want to or not.

It's ok.

I've coem to realize, especially in these sitches that some things (like my mottos says) cannot be fixed. There are hard-core consequences & sometiems htey are UGLY.

Families are torn apart, children are left fatherless...you make the best w/ what you have to work w/. kwim?

Every one takes their part, sucks it up & moves on...in whatever direction they choose.

It's ok.

breathe. [/color]

Whew..where do you get that I would sue a tobacco company? You're irrational!

Babies are made through the act of sexual intercourse. If he participated in sexual intercourse with her he was a willing participant. You claim he wasn't a "participant" then the child isn't his? Whether a peson wants a child or not doesn't change the fact that the child was conceived. That's irrational!

Being abused as a child or having a sexual addiction doesn't get anyone off the hook for their behavior. We're all responsible for our own behavior.

I can't understand why you come to his defense when you claim he has done this before. He only used her for sex as you claim but she persued him. That doesn't make sense.

The only compassion I have in this situation is for these children. Not for him or ow but least of all for him. There is a 14 year difference in their age! He is probably not that much younger than her father.

You want to make this everyone's fault rather than your husband...her fault...her father's fault...her church's fault... The fault lies with your husband and her. And there's a price to be paid. It would be healthier for you and these children to deal with it in a mature way. I know you despise this girl for what she's done and rightfully so but in the process don't let your husband off the hook. As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

jph,

Well, in some ways I agree with you, but not in how you are treating someone so new and fresh to THIS specific situation! You were asked a couple times about your story, and I have yet to see you post it for us to understand WHERE you are coming from. I did a search, and found this quote, from you, here on this board, which you rarely visit, and I would like to you read what you said and apply it to Crazed here, please!



You know, it DOES make a difference in those who were sexually abused and now have a sexual addiction. Just as with addicts of other things, alcohol, drugs, you don't excuse their behaviour, but you try to help them overcome their problem. Which, in my book, doesn't mean that you turn tail and run away!

Think of how you felt when you first found out about your x(?) having an A. The pain and anger you felt. Well, now add to that the fact that there is a child out there that, from my understanding, neither of you knew about until the papers for DNA testing were delivered to your door!

Now, for the parts that I do agree with you on are just statements of fact, that BOTH parties in the A are responsible. I do feel that Crazed H should have insisted on condoms, even if the xow was claiming to be in BC. But, that doesn't make him worse, and neither does the fact that she was 19 and he 33. It's almost impossible in todays culture to NOT know how babies are created, and, heck, she was saying she was on BC, so she KNEW, just as he did!

Crazed is here for support, help, understanding, a place to vent so she keeps that anger away from her crumbling M! It sounds to me like her H wants to make this M work, and will do anything to do so. If you have a problem with them following the MB principles of M first(even if it did come a little late on the H's part) then maybe you need to refresh your knowledge on the MB principles, and also take a look at what the Harley's have to say about the OC and contact.

Crazed, please keep posting! We are here to help you get through the tough times and share our own experiences with you. I have one suggestion on venting though. Don't dwell on something you can't change. Deal with it when the triggers come, but if you dwell on it, you aren't helping rebuild your M either. I'm not saying anything about your recent posts, just make sure that you grow from what's offerd here, and not constantly dwell on the pain. How much of the principles and Q&A have you and your H read? Have you read any of the suggested reading? Done any of the questionares? Trust me, they are AWESOME tools in your recovery! We, ourselves, are approaching the 5 year of recovery!

I hope that you do keep posting!

jph do read anything I actually write? Where did I say I'm letting him off the hook? Where did I blame the church? I merly stated she had moral upbringing and wasn't so innocent. Her father is in his 60's, 30 years older then my H. I don't dispise this girl. I feel sorry for her. And I don't feel I'm irrational at all. I mean how can how I FEEL about sitch be irrational? I didn't and don't blame anyone else other then them. But sometimes there are deeper issues to one's behavior. I still disagree with the making baby part. Yes they had sex but that DOES NOT mean a baby will come unless someone is not doing their part. I mean you cook in the kitchen but it dosen't mean you'll get burned. You drive doesn't mean you'll crash. And as far as maturity goes you seem to like that word but I don't think you understand the meaning. I don't see how I'm being immature? I haven't lost my mind and done dumb things. I am the one sitting home taking care of my children, paying bills, and learning eveything I can on sexual addiction to help my H and family threw this. But I am here to help MY family. Not hers. What wonderful and MATURE things have you done for your sitch and OW to be healthy as you put it? Just curious since you seem to feel that I am wrong in how I choose to deal.

tigger thank you. I was enlightened by your post. No I haven't started on the list of things to do to get on with this. Any suggestions for where to start?

crazed, you said:

then this:


I have some questions because some things aren't adding up to me...

In what way did your father force you upon his wife?

In what manner did his wife abuse you?

How is that you were close to your oldest brother, but 3 of the 5 you don't even know? What about the 5th sibling, do you know that one?

Why do you refer to your mother as the "the mistress"? I mean, I know that's what she was, but from your POV, I'd think you'd just call her "my mother". I just find that statement rather odd.

If you are a "firm believer" that children follow in their parents' footsteps, how is it you've never cheated? Especially since BOTH of YOUR parents were adulterers, AND you were aware of it, just like your H and his sibling were aware of his father's A's?

Thanks,
~ad

crazedmomma,

First of all, I want to give you hugs for trying to find some kind of support system while you're faced w/this. I have not found myself in this situation, but my BIL was faced w/his W's A & having a child w/her OM, all along believing that the child was his when in fact it was someone else's. He didn't find out until 3 years later.

I'm just wondering how you propose to tell your children at some point that they have a half sister? Do you think they have the right to know? What I'm saying is, do you think they'll ever resent you or your H b/c they weren't informed of their sister? Will you tell them at some point? I hope they'll understand your reasons for NC someday.

I guess I'm just worried about what this will do to all the children involved, including the OW's D.

And, don't mean to offend, but I have to go w/the notion that not all men do this at some point in their lives. My BIL was a very faithful H, devoted father & his life was wrecked by his W's callous behavior & his children's lives were 4ever affected. It saddens me to see so much pain in this family's life.

Didn't mean to pop in to somewhere I didn't belong if you feel that way, but I was browsing the boards & this post just struck me. You're in so much pain & I wish I had some answers for you. It seems like you're being well taken care of by the other members here though. Keep your chin up. You will get through this.

Equally blamed, and equally compassion.

Thanks for the feedback ya'll.
autumnday let me answer your questions first. My father kidnapped me from my mother when I was about 4. When he needed someone to watch me he would leave me with the wife. He didn't do it often but when he did she was verbally and physically abusive. Thats how come I was close to my oldest brother he would try to protect me. Also for some reason only my oldest brother and I were my dads picks. So we stayed together. My dad did not stay with the wife he took me and moved elsewhere and he raised me till he died when I was 16. As for my mother she was the mistress. When my dad took me at 4 I didn't make contact with her again till I was 25. We just didn't bond and now have no relationship. I do believe children follow their parents footsteps if they feel that somehow what they are doing is right. See I was strong enough to see my parents mistake and the pain it caused so many. Where as my H saw his dad cheat,cheat,cheat and his mom just stay and deal. She's a very weak woman. You know when we tried counseling years ago I spent most of my time arguing with the counselers about how I was so different from how I was raised it just didn't add up. They told me I couldn't be a strong person unless someone taught me to be. I felt I was a strong person because I had to be. But nope they swore I wasn't telling them something from my past.

standingtogether welcome to the boards. I'm glad your BIL was a faithful person, to your knowledge. I do believe some people are just good cheaters. They follow the rules so to say. They don't get caught. I also feel that just because he hadn't cheated yet didn't mean one day he wouldn't. Some cheat straight out the gate. Some may take 20 years, but they all do it. Anyway not trying to down your BIL just a thought. As far as telling them they have a half sister I don't at this time plan to. I don't feel you can't miss something you don't know. Like me and my siblings. Don't know them, don't care. Just because they share some of the same DNA does not make them family. Come on dosen't EVERYONE have relatives they don't know? Do you miss them or even care about them? No of course not. Where is this any different? Do you feel that every child conceived in the world from a sperm donation should be considered family? No you don't. So why just because dad actually inserted penis into this woman make her or her c a must know? IT DOSEN'T. I do sound harsh huh? Not trying to be. I just have a different point of view. But thanks for writing in I do enjoy discussing this. It helps vent.

tigger..she's not fresh or new to this. She said in her first post that her husband has been unfaithful before. Anyone who has an unfaithful spouse should brace themselves for this situation. I was fortunate that my h's xow wanted nothing to do with the child she had and wanted no more.

Say someone killed a family member of yours and blamed it on the fact that they were abused during their childhood. Should they be blameless for this murder? No. Does that negate the damage they've done? No.

I could not support someone who wanted to hurt an innocent child and have no regard for that child. It seems that this situation is filled with adults that have no character. It breaks my heart that the children will suffer and more than likely repeat what they've seen.

Crazedmom is just that. She's too crazed to think rationally even to the point of believing he wasn't a participant! That's amazing to me considering his history.

My history..I am currently going through a divorce. My h is an alcoholic and it came time to end our marriage. It's an amicable divorce, he takes care of my yard, pays my bills and comes to dinner regularly. We're parting as friends for what good would it do to part as enemies. The affair has been over several (4) years yet he is still stalked by his xow from time to time. I have a disease that is slowly taking my eyesight and has left me with crippling arthritis. One eye is already gone and the other is functioning poorly. The screen on my computer is enlarged so that I can see. I take cancer medications that aids with severe arthritis. So you see I'm not one that is foreign to the concept of suffering, the difference being my reaction to the challenges that life offers. We all have choices in life-become angry and bitter because life is not what we expect and the people in our lives don't behave in an honorable fashion or we can learn from what we face in life. It's easy to be angry with those who are different or have offended our sense of entitlement. What good does that do? Allowing a child to suffer in that bitterness is the worst of all evils.

I have one word for you crazedmomma - condoms!!!! You said your husband has cheated before correct? Did he ever use them? That probably would have prevented the unwanted pregnancy. Have you been tested for STD's??? If not I would think about that immediately.
I am really surprised that some of the men on this board who have been cheated on haven't jumped on the "all men cheat" remark. I am a woman and I find that hard to take.
No-Im not the OW - I am the BS - who lost her husband of 26 years to a serial cheater.
I do understand your pain and I feel for you and it took me a long time to realize that the OW had no stake in my life - she's not the one who married me and betrayed me. My ex did.

Ummmmm, not to be petty, but ST has been on "the boards" for about 19 months now.

Also, IMO you DID put down ST's BIL by saying all men do it. In fact, you slammed ALL the men who do NOT cheat. Then again, by your theory, it's only natural for men to cheat, so they're excused for the most part--hence no slam. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

First, you didn't exactly answer all my questions, and SECONDLY, now I have a bunch more...
Kidnapped? Did your mother ever contact the authorities?

Do you remember being kidnapped, did you figure it out for yourself, or was it something, someone told you later?

Did you cry for your mom? Miss her?

Where did you go at the age of 16 when your father died?

If your mother was the mistress, what was your father?

When you were left with "the wife", (that totally sounds like something a man would say, btw), where were your other FOUR half siblings that you never met?

What do you mean by, "oldest brother and I were my dads picks. So we stayed together."?

What was your relationship like between you and your father?

Thanks,
~ad

ok I can see that this board may not be a help to me. I for one feel since everyone on here is here due to a cheating other they would agree with the everyone cheats (eventually). Anyway I am only voicing MY opinion. It seems some of you disagree with me. I'm fine with that but I am started to feel insulted. I don't recall ever saying that my H was blameless or innocent or anything to the innocent side of life. I have simply stated my opinion on the OW. If I want to feel she's trash (which I do) and he's innocent (which I don't) thats my right. I don't need anyone of you to call me any names (immature,evil,no character to name a few). I like how I have done NOTHING wrong yet I'm facing sh*t from SOME of you.
jph after this comment to you I have nothing more to say to you. I see your one who should be giving advice on evil or not evil. You say your getting a divorce. I can see why since your such a mature and understanding person. but yet I'm evil for not wanting anything to do with a kid that is not mine. Is not my blood. Is not in my life. I guess if that makes me trash in your eyes. OH Well. I won't loose any sleep over your opinion. But thanks all the same.

And for the record. I have NO STD's. I do go to a doctor on a regular basis. As far as my H cheating before so has most of yours probaly. They just didn't get caught. Most affairs are not the first ones and if they are they won't be the last. I mean do you feel these OC were maybe the only reason they got caught this time? I can't tell you how many times I had that debate at work with co-workers on all men cheat and they would argue not their H's. I was just bitter. Yeah well maybe but every one of those women ended up crying on my shoulder when they found out about OW. Just trying not to live in denial folks, thats it. I didn't make the statistics on divorce in America due to cheating. It's awful big percentage but yep I'm the evil one.
Smooches all.

Crazedmomma,
I know a lot of men cheat - just like I know a lot of woman cheat - I also know that not all men cheat. My ex didn't cheat on me physically - it was an emotional affair with a co-worker 15 years younger. But he cheated none the less but that was the first time he did. Maybe you think I'm naive but condsidering the size town I've always lived if he had I would have found out. Not that it matters how many years your spouse was faithful. And yes the statistics are horrible for divorce but the there are a lot of betrayed husbands on here who would never cheat on their wives - even after being cheated on.
I do hope you stay on this board - it is very helpful but just like you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine and we should all be able to share it on here.
I'm so glad you are tested for STD's - I didn't say that about him cheating before to be nasty - I was just concerned that he was having unprotected sex with other woman and then with you. There are people on this board who have gotten STD's from their wayward spouses.
My son asked me once - why are you so mad at ow - she didn't betray you - Dad did. That's when my eyes were opened. I blame them equally.

Yes, but a far cry from ALL. That's all any of us were trying to point out. Your opinion may be that ALL men cheat sooner or later, but you know what? When you state an opinion as fact, (and when it's false), you'll get called on it.

To CrazedMomma:
It sounds like from your last post that you are leaving this board. I am sorry you ended up having to defend your OPINIONS (which is what everyone is overlooking -- these are her initial opinions about her sitch which she has recently found herself in) and received more questions than support. I know how difficult these situations w/ A, OW, OC can be and the worst part of it to me is feeling like you are alone. You do need someone or someplace to vent and be able to state your feelings (even if they are irrational to others). I will be glad to email with you if you need someone to talk to -- I don't have all the answers but I have the ability to listen without judgement. My email is [email]wurmommy@bellsouth.net.[/email]

Beth

Everyone has a right to their opinion. That doesnt make that opinion a fact. Your opinion is every man cheats. That doesnt make it a fact. That is what people are trying to get you to understand.

I also understand (I think) that you do blame your H a little bit. I think you dismiss his behavior because he was sexually abused and he is a sex addict.
I can speak on part of this. I was sexually abused as a child. That does not give me the right to cheat or to totally destroy someone's life. It is a cop out and a justification.
I think (I could be wrong) is what upsets alot of people is that your H has cheated on you multiple times and you seem ok with it. You say "all men cheat, if they did it once they will do it again". Well if that is the case why stay with him? Its like giving him a get out of jail free card. You expect it, He knows it, so what does he have to lose?

I am not trying to slam you, I am just asking questions.
If I found out my H was having multiple affairs, my marraige would be over and he would be without his family jewels because I would surely cut them off.
No way would I stay married and let him continually hurt me and my children like that. Let alone take the risk of him bringing aids or any other STD into my home. Why have you allowed it or put up with it for so long.??

Lori