Well, 12-step programs talk about making amends to those you have wronged unless doing so could cause greater harm. Let's say you and your WS have moved into Recovery, have 2 years in. "No contact" was maintained. The wounds are mostly healed. Your family has finally started to settle down and move on with their lives.

Down the road, a year or two, the OP reaches a point where they recognize the terrible damage they've done to your marriage. I don't know that I would want them to contact me or my WS with an apology! I think, for me, it would do greater harm to receive an apology at that time.

I see nothing wrong with anger. It's a stage of grief. We're definitely grieving over the loss of what we perceived our spouses to be. I've told my sons, "It's ok to be angry. It's not ok to abuse someone with your anger". (Not that I haven't thought of abuse many times related to my xWS and the OW!)

Judgment? Does that mean discernment of righteous behavior, or retribution for a wrong doing? Christ already set the example with the adultress who was to be stoned to death. "Let the first among you who has not sinned cast the first stone." And they all walked away.

And as HE told us, heartmending, "judge with righteous judgement." And that is exactly what we should do.

Did I not mention discernment of righteous behavior?

I believe you did, and I mentioned that the Bible says "judge with righteous judgement."

ML,
We are never commanded to JUDGE right from wrong. We are simply commanded to see the DIFFERENCE. Once, seeing that, we are commanded to live our lives knowing that.
Jerry

Jerry, we are commanded throughout the Bible to judge right from wrong, starting with the 10 Commandments. In order for us to know right from wrong, we must judge. We are commanded to judge [discern] right from wrong and use "righteous judgement" when judging our brothers.

Jerry, in order to see the difference you must "judge." The meaning of judge is: To form an opinion or evaluation

You can't tell right from wrong unless you evaluate the act and compare it to a moral standard. See what I mean? That is the act of judging. And we are supposed to judge that lying, cheating, stealing, etc are WRONG.

Sorry Ml,
We are simply commanded to KNOW THE DIFFERNCE, and live our live's knowing that difference!
Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry, I don't disagree with that at all, but my point is that knowing the difference requires JUDGING. In order to know the difference we must evaluate that the act is wrong or it is right. That is called judging. How else would we know the difference unless we judged? If someone lies, we are to "judge" that lying is wrong. If someone kills a child, we are to "judge" that killing is wrong according to God's standard. We have to judge every day.

HI ML,
I'm not excluding any of that. I'm simply saying that we must temper our human judgement with the knowledge that all things will be judged in the end by Our Heavenly Father, the one that created us all. I truly did not intend to create a contoversy about this. It is simply my point of view.
Jerry

Jerry, God judges our souls in the end, humans cannot do that; but we are expected to judge [evaluate] right from wrong while on earth.

OF course we are,
But that doesn't mean that we are to determine the SENTENCE of those who have harmed us in any way.
That is not left to us, nor should it ever be that way.
God Bless,
Jerry

Agreee! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ok, forgive me,
But I have a meeting I am suppose to make(darn you). LOL
Jerry

Have fun, Jer!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The ban against judgement in the Bible is not directed toward judgement of an act but we are not to judge the motive because God is the only One who knows the heart.

I get so frustrated when people spew out "Judge not lest ye be judged" in order to avoid chastisement.

We're also to forgive even if forgiveness is not requested. True forgiveness in some cases is a process and it took me along time to be able to pray for xow. She never asked for forgiveness. I remember that she's as lost as lost can be and searching for answers in all the wrong places. After much soul searching I realized how could I hold bitterness for her because she is incapable of understanding what all she's done. Bitterness and unforgiveness harms only the holder of those emotions.

I think when we come to the end of our lives, we'll be able to clearly look back and see people who are brought into our lives may have been placed there because they needed our help. I don't think I or anyone else should personally take on any responsibility for the lives of OP's but I do have a responsibility to pray for them and make the best of a situation in MY life that truly was a living nightmare.

Romans 8:28 For we know that all things work toward good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.

jph, I'm with ya on the Judge Not lest ...misapplication, it is supposed to be a caution against hypocrisy, not judgment. However, our standard of forgiveness is no different than God's. We forgive when the person repents and when they want forgiveness. That is God's standard and is supposed to be our standard. Otherwise, it is just done for selfish reasons to make ourselves feel holier than thou, because it acheives no other purpose.

I agree that we should not hold onto bitterness, but one does not have to forgive a person who neither cares or wants our forgiveness to do that. One can let go of bitterness without "forgiving" someone who doesn't want it.

JPH:

You said:
"I remember that she's as lost as lost can be and searching for answers in all the wrong places. After much soul searching I realized how could I hold bitterness for her because she is incapable of understanding what all she's done"


I find what you are saying here very thought-provoking because my FWH, as a Christian, has encouraged me to see the FOW this way. I don't like to hear this from him because it sounds as if he is feeling sorry for her when he talks this way. I'm thinking he wants ME to think this way in order to let go of my anger and bitterness about her.



What do you say about EVIL though. In many respects, she was the embodiment of EVIL even casting EVIL SPIRITS. In my situation, as I indicated earlier, there was an emphasis on her trying to turn my FWH away from the church, trying to encourage him not to feel guilty about what he was doing, etc. She also engages in a lot of immoral practices and has led such a life... So what do you say to this? What if the OP is an instrument of SATAN. AN EVILDOER as discussed in Ephesians...

Well hoo-wee Mimi .... about THIS I have an opinion!

In my opinion ....

[color:"red"]Mimi's feelings, thoughts, anger, bitterness about OW are NONE of her husband's business [/color]

That is just my opinion.... You are entitled to your feelings just as he is entitled to his.


Pep<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think we have gotten off the main subject.

When we marry, we make a commitment to each other for life. There are many possible OPs out there who might want your spouse; however, they did not make a vow to you. Your spouse did. For an A to occur, the spouse has has to break their vows to you. Why blame the OP? It is the WS who betrayed you.

I think I'm with Lemonman. Why put so much effort into staying with someone who betrayed you? To me, it just gives the WS a green light to do it again since they can get away with it so easily.

I guess there are some really remourseful WSs. My experience with my 1st wife was 19 years of hell. When she left us, it was the best thing she ever did for the children and me.

I do not know who the OPs were, and I don't care. It was my spouse who betrayed me.